Game 6: Orlando Magic (4-1) @ Charlotte Hornets (2-3) 10/29 6 PM ET

[OrlandO]

This year should have been last year for AG, so I consider it a completely lost year of his development. His handle has always been decent and he's always been able to get by defenders with his athleticism and speed at the 4.

Thats not correct. Last year he was getting 2-3 dribbles in and had to pass it out when his defenders cut his lane to the basket. Being guarded by faster and more versatile 3s last year helped his one-on-one ability this year at the 4 so far this year. AGs handles were always on par for a 4 but for a 3 were subpar. Being exposed to the 3 all last year help improved his handles, driving ability, and shooting. We dont know what the outcome would have been if he was the entire season at the 4.

Four games in, he is averaging 22pt 9.5reb while shooting 55% FG and 58% 3PT. We good

AG's development was stunted last year, I didnt really think people were even arguing that at this point. Every single one of his numbers were down the first half of last year at the 3 and the second he switched back to the 4 they shot back up. Theres a few positive things to take from his switch to the 3 last year but AG would have been putting these numbers up at the 4 last year. That's why I consider it a stunted year of his development maybe not a completely lost one, but one that should not have happened.

I agree we wasted most of last season playing gordon to his weaknesses out of position... that was 50 games lost of Gordon at his natural position where he actually has big advantages. Would have been helpful to have those under his belt for this season. At least he now knows he's not a SF.

[OrlandoDream]

AG's development was stunted last year, I didnt really think people were even arguing that at this point. Every single one of his numbers were down the first half of last year at the 3 and the second he switched back to the 4 they shot back up. Theres a few positive things to take from his switch to the 3 last year but AG would have been putting these numbers up at the 4 last year. That's why I consider it a stunted year of his development maybe not a completely lost one, but one that should not have happened.

Not a chance. We got a good enough sample size of this after we traded Ibaka. AG went back to the 4 and while he did play better and avg like 16 and 6; he shot awfully from three. After the Ibaka trade, he shot a woefully 26% from 3.

AG took notice of this and put in major work in the offseason. Right now he is shooting lights out from 3 and that is the biggest difference in his game from last season. He is still getting those dunk/putback buckets but his ability now to make the 3 has changed his game and one of the main reasons why he is having a career year now.

The kid just turned 22 and is in his 4th season and is averaging 22/9. I think his development is just fine.

I dont think he would have been putting up the same numbers from 3, but that's more of a testament to the work he put in during the offseason, not anything to do with his time at the 3 last year. That was something he was going to incorporate into his game regardless if he was at the 3 or 4. The numbers he put up post all star game last year were the numbers he could of and should of been putting up from the start of last season.

Most likely but the main questions becomes, "would that have translated into wins?" Even after the trade the team was playing better but still losing and below 0.500. We needed more than AG to turn the corner and that's exactly what we are seeing. AG isnt the only player that has improved; Fournier and Vuc(sort of) have too. Then the addition of Isaac and vets like Simmons, Speights, and Afflalo has helped the bench too. A collection of all that is what has lead to this surprisingly positive start.

[pepe1991]

Thats not correct. Last year he was getting 2-3 dribbles in and had to pass it out when his defenders cut his lane to the basket. Being guarded by faster and more versatile 3s last year helped his one-on-one ability this year at the 4 so far this year. AGs handles were always on par for a 4 but for a 3 were subpar. Being exposed to the 3 all last year help improved his handles, driving ability, and shooting. We dont know what the outcome would have been if he was the entire season at the 4.

Four games in, he is averaging 22pt 9.5reb while shooting 55% FG and 58% 3PT. We good

AG's development was stunted last year, I didnt really think people were even arguing that at this point. Every single one of his numbers were down the first half of last year at the 3 and the second he switched back to the 4 they shot back up. Theres a few positive things to take from his switch to the 3 last year but AG would have been putting these numbers up at the 4 last year. That's why I consider it a stunted year of his development maybe not a completely lost one, but one that should not have happened.

I agree we wasted most of last season playing gordon to his weaknesses out of position... that was 50 games lost of Gordon at his natural position where he actually has big advantages. Would have been helpful to have those under his belt for this season. At least he now knows he's not a SF.

Big part of him playing SF was him actually pushing to play SF , not to mentioned how whole this forum jumped into " New Paul Geroge" foolishness. Hell, some of them still argue that he should play SF,at least they did up until start of this preseason.

[PrimeThyme]

Not a chance. We got a good enough sample size of this after we traded Ibaka. AG went back to the 4 and while he did play better and avg like 16 and 6; he shot awfully from three. After the Ibaka trade, he shot a woefully 26% from 3.

AG took notice of this and put in major work in the offseason. Right now he is shooting lights out from 3 and that is the biggest difference in his game from last season. He is still getting those dunk/putback buckets but his ability now to make the 3 has changed his game and one of the main reasons why he is having a career year now.

The kid just turned 22 and is in his 4th season and is averaging 22/9. I think his development is just fine.

I dont think he would have been putting up the same numbers from 3, but that's more of a testament to the work he put in during the offseason, not anything to do with his time at the 3 last year. That was something he was going to incorporate into his game regardless if he was at the 3 or 4. The numbers he put up post all star game last year were the numbers he could of and should of been putting up from the start of last season.

Most likely but the main questions becomes, "would that have translated into wins?" Even after the trade the team was playing better but still losing and below 0.500. We needed more than AG to turn the corner and that's exactly what we are seeing. AG isnt the only player that has improved; Fournier and Vuc(sort of) have too. Then the addition of Isaac and vets like Simmons, Speights, and Afflalo has helped the bench too. A collection of all that is what has lead to this surprisingly positive start.

No it probably wouldn't have due to the roster, But was AG being forced to play the 3 translating into wins either? No it wasn't so id rather have him thriving at his rightful position rather than struggling in losses at the 3.

[fklt]

Big part of him playing SF was him actually pushing to play SF , not to mentioned how whole this forum jumped into " New Paul Geroge" foolishness. Hell, some of them still argue that he should play SF,at least they did up until start of this preseason.

I thought it was worth trying, to be honest. I don't know if I publicly said so on the board but I would have made the same mistake as Henny, hah. It now seems obvious that we tried too long and too hard.

I'd even speculate that Frank never playing him at the 4 was a push to take him out of his comfort zone. It was too weird not to be intentional.

[pepe1991]

Big part of him playing SF was him actually pushing to play SF , not to mentioned how whole this forum jumped into " New Paul Geroge" foolishness. Hell, some of them still argue that he should play SF,at least they did up until start of this preseason.

I thought it was worth trying, to be honest. I don't know if I publicly said so on the board but I would have made the same mistake as Henny, hah. It now seems obvious that we tried too long and too hard.

I'd even speculate that Frank never playing him at the 4 was a push to take him out of his comfort zone. It was too weird not to be intentional.

I will never get why we didn't try with Ibaka at C, Gordon PF, Ross SF, Evan SG and Elf on PG. But nop. Wasted .

[OrlandO]

AG's development was stunted last year, I didnt really think people were even arguing that at this point. Every single one of his numbers were down the first half of last year at the 3 and the second he switched back to the 4 they shot back up. Theres a few positive things to take from his switch to the 3 last year but AG would have been putting these numbers up at the 4 last year. That's why I consider it a stunted year of his development maybe not a completely lost one, but one that should not have happened.

I agree we wasted most of last season playing gordon to his weaknesses out of position... that was 50 games lost of Gordon at his natural position where he actually has big advantages. Would have been helpful to have those under his belt for this season. At least he now knows he's not a SF.

Big part of him playing SF was him actually pushing to play SF , not to mentioned how whole this forum jumped into " New Paul Geroge" foolishness. Hell, some of them still argue that he should play SF,at least they did up until start of this preseason.

AG welcoming the idea of playing SF is not the same as him pushing for it and making it happen. He played SF because Hennigan wanted Ibaka. Previous summers he tried to bring in Millsap and Patterson, which would have also bumped AG to SF or backup PF.

[fklt]

I will never get why we didn't try with Ibaka at C, Gordon PF, Ross SF, Evan SG and Elf on PG. But nop. Wasted .

I'd say management being ashamed to not play the 2 centers they paid 28 mills per year. ffs vogel, why couldn't you just appreciate dedmon as a back-up

[Last Guardian]

Big part of him playing SF was him actually pushing to play SF , not to mentioned how whole this forum jumped into " New Paul Geroge" foolishness. Hell, some of them still argue that he should play SF,at least they did up until start of this preseason.

I thought it was worth trying, to be honest. I don't know if I publicly said so on the board but I would have made the same mistake as Henny, hah. It now seems obvious that we tried too long and too hard.

I'd even speculate that Frank never playing him at the 4 was a push to take him out of his comfort zone. It was too weird not to be intentional.

I will never get why we didn't try with Ibaka at C, Gordon PF, Ross SF, Evan SG and Elf on PG. But nop. Wasted .

I would say the main reason is because Ibaka and Ross couldn't have been on the same team.

[tiderulz]

I thought it was worth trying, to be honest. I don't know if I publicly said so on the board but I would have made the same mistake as Henny, hah. It now seems obvious that we tried too long and too hard.

I'd even speculate that Frank never playing him at the 4 was a push to take him out of his comfort zone. It was too weird not to be intentional.

I will never get why we didn't try with Ibaka at C, Gordon PF, Ross SF, Evan SG and Elf on PG. But nop. Wasted .

I would say the main reason is because Ibaka and Ross couldn't have been on the same team.

[OrlDave]

Missed the game. Without making me read 30 pages, anyone have why we lost? I do think not having Isaac hurts. He's really a solid force on defense.

[fklt]

Missed the game. Without making me read 30 pages, anyone have why we lost? I do think not having Isaac hurts. He's really a solid force on defense.

nobody could contain kemba. vuc couldn't handle dwight.

[Last Guardian]

Missed the game. Without making me read 30 pages, anyone have why we lost? I do think not having Isaac hurts. He's really a solid force on defense.

Well, they seemed like they defended us well but we still scored 113. We lost because we just didn't guard them. I know we can. Guys just weren't really playing with any intensity and just let them get what they wanted. We tried a little harder at the end, but they were already in a groove and it was too late.

Most people will blame Vuc as is the usual on this board, and he wasn't great or anything, but he can't guard the guy driving AND Dwight at the same time. The perimeter defense just wasn't there, especially from DJ. Had we gone PG less the whole game we actually would have had a much better chance.

[pepe1991]

I thought it was worth trying, to be honest. I don't know if I publicly said so on the board but I would have made the same mistake as Henny, hah. It now seems obvious that we tried too long and too hard.

I'd even speculate that Frank never playing him at the 4 was a push to take him out of his comfort zone. It was too weird not to be intentional.

I will never get why we didn't try with Ibaka at C, Gordon PF, Ross SF, Evan SG and Elf on PG. But nop. Wasted .

I would say the main reason is because Ibaka and Ross couldn't have been on the same team.

damn , well played sir, well played. Shame on me

anyway you get a point, ibaka at C, Gordon at PF, but like somebody said, probably because you would have almost 30M on bench at C position

[pepe1991]

Missed the game. Without making me read 30 pages, anyone have why we lost? I do think not having Isaac hurts. He's really a solid force on defense.

We couldn't guard Kemba and we played half-a** defense whole game long

[Last Guardian]

I will never get why we didn't try with Ibaka at C, Gordon PF, Ross SF, Evan SG and Elf on PG. But nop. Wasted .

I would say the main reason is because Ibaka and Ross couldn't have been on the same team.

damn , well played sir, well played. Shame on me

anyway you get a point, ibaka at C, Gordon at PF, but like somebody said, probably because you would have almost 30M on bench at C position

I agree. When they don't try new things and to find something that works, it just tells me they don't care as much about winning. All I want is a coach that adjusts.

[MagicStarwipe]

Vuc and Fournier lead the team in their shots being assisted at 83% and 71%, respectively. Gordon is near the bottom next to Simmons and DJ. Simmons does play selfishly, but he's also in a sixth man role off the bench and plays alongside players who can't really score on their own. If Gordon was in that role I'd want him dominating the ball, too. Our main scorers in the starting unit should all get moments of trying to score on their man unassisted, but those moments need to be distributed throughout the game, not all in the first quarter. Gordon has been better about it in the last two, but this drama over not being able to take a bad shot has me a little concerned.

Gordon just got his big promotion and he's not an all star yet. He is getting touches, sharing handling responsibilities and putting plenty of shots up... he needs to be patient if he has his eyes on an even bigger role. If he starts playing like a player who deserves to take on teams by himself then the team will eventually adjust to that. Right now though he is shooting 28% between the restricted circle and 3pt line. If he wasn't so insistent on playing like kobe or carmelo half the time he could average 20 ppg on mostly assisted and hustle points, which would be huge for this team. I think maybe Vogel gave him the wrong idea during preseason as it's clear they're not quite on the same page in terms of what his role should be early in this season.

It's just that you're one of the few that I've seen say AG was playing selfishly the night he got his career high and I really don't understand it. At times in other games he forces the issue and takes bad shots, but so does Fournier. I didn't see him do it that night though. I didn't see him take a single crazy shot. I just saw him playing aggressively, which is what we want and need. Gordon also makes the extra pass a lot which I don't see anybody mentioning for some reason.

I am talking about early in the game before he adjusted thanks to fournier and possibly vogel holding him accountable. He was trying to dominate the ball the entire first quarter and that was a big factor in why the team had just 2 assists and only 1 three that quarter while he was out there. Josh Robbins also commented on it when praising his team play vs the Spurs: "Gordon sometimes inhibited the team’s ball movement during the Magic’s win Tuesday night over the Brooklyn Nets." Gordon also admitted after he needs to be more patient. It's not like I'm pulling the observation out of my ass. Anywya, there are plenty of shots for our top scorers while still playing within the team system this year... I'm not interested in reliving the jacque vaughn era when individual play was encouraged over team play. If we end up sucking again and have to make some trades then we can prioritize AG's success more than team success.

Nah, I'm not buying it. The stuff some players on this team have been able to get away with for years here and people have a problem with what AG did that night? I didn't see anything wrong with it. I think it's as simple as some people still just think about him as a garbage man and they can't move past that in their brain. But hey, that's just my opinion.