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The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#221 » by TinmanZBoy » Wed Nov 1, 2017 3:16 am

Curns13 wrote:
shakendfries wrote:can somebody tell me why the hell marks paid crabbe???? if you're getting paid $75m & coming off the bench, you better come in the game with a fire under your ass demanding the ball like Shaq cause you know it's going in if it leaves your hand

He needs other the create for him and that just isn’t happening right now. Kenny needs to study hours of Clippers sets to see how JJ got his looks.


he got looks ... just did not fall... also he is not JJ, at least not there yet
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#222 » by Curns13 » Wed Nov 1, 2017 3:24 am

TinmanZBoy wrote:
Curns13 wrote:
shakendfries wrote:can somebody tell me why the hell marks paid crabbe???? if you're getting paid $75m & coming off the bench, you better come in the game with a fire under your ass demanding the ball like Shaq cause you know it's going in if it leaves your hand

He needs other the create for him and that just isn’t happening right now. Kenny needs to study hours of Clippers sets to see how JJ got his looks.


he got looks ... just did not fall... also he is not JJ, at least not there yet

He won’t ever become JJ if they dont run sets for him like Clips and Hawks did for JJ and Korver.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#223 » by Prokorov » Wed Nov 1, 2017 5:50 am

Curns13 wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:
Curns13 wrote:He needs other the create for him and that just isn’t happening right now. Kenny needs to study hours of Clippers sets to see how JJ got his looks.


he got looks ... just did not fall... also he is not JJ, at least not there yet

He won’t ever become JJ if they dont run sets for him like Clips and Hawks did for JJ and Korver.


JJ Reddick and Korver are guys who come along just 2 or 3 times a generation. very few players EVER have their ability to catch and shoot off balance on the move and make shots at an elite rate.

Nets run plenty of plays and action for Crabbe to get those opportunties. in fact, that is basically what their version of the motion offense is designed to do. Crabbe can shoot off screens, but not offbalance or as effective as those guys. He also doesnt have the ability to reset and make shots. We saw it all last year. teams would run him off the line because they were not affraid of him putting it on the floor and hurting them. Reddick will kill you if you fly by on a fake. one dribble and all net.

Crabbe is shooting 38-39% from three right now. That is about what should be expected when you factor in that he is taking 20% more threes. your not going to often see guys increase their volume and maintain their percentages. especially when more of his shots are comming on the move and not just stand still like last year. this is somethign i mentioned very early on. why i felt he was an excellent but not elite three point shooter. (low volume and 97% came on catch and shoot)

In general, its tough to replicate shooting 44% from three. even look at korvers career and the variance between mid 40s, low 40s, and high 30s. and thats a guy with a track record of being elite. Crabbe has had just 1 full season over 40%.

But the attitude is there. he is going to work hard. and even as is he is still shooting the three well. 38% is still very good.

People call me a hater but i said it from day 1: It isnt crabbes fault marks gave him all-star money. If crabbe isnt meeting your expectations go criticize marks in the marks thread. Crabbe is doing what he did before he got paid and what he did last year. Hit open threes at a solid rate and provide solid bench minutes as a specialist shooter who plays big minutes.

You ask crabbe to start taking 6 or 7 threes a game and do more off the dribble or carry a heavier offensive load and of course his numbers wont look as good. When you ask role players to be heavier contributors usually they dont look as good as they did in their defined role as role players.

This is what i mean when I said there wasnt much seperating Harris and Crabbe. Both are roll playing shooters and once crabbe got in this offense and took more shots on the move on higher volume that percentage gap between him and harris was bound to even out a bit
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#224 » by SpeedyG » Wed Nov 1, 2017 1:11 pm

I'm not ready to say that Crabbe isn't that guy yet. Yes his % is expected to go down with more usage, but he has gotten some good looks that just hasn't gone down.

More importantly, the shot looks good more often than not when it leaves his hand. and he doesn't look like he's playing without confidence.

He's also been hurt and playing with a new team and is asking to do more than he's done in the NBA ever. The shots have been there (though I'd like to see more sets getting him and Harris easier shots than curling off screen to hit a catch and shoot 3)
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#225 » by Netaman » Wed Nov 1, 2017 2:58 pm

I think it's safe to say with how out of sorts the entire team looks right now most have played about as bad as they can since the Cleveland win, which obviously wasn't as big of a deal as we thought at the time with how things have gone for them since. If Crabbe's floor is 38-39% and hard work on the defensive end, or in other words a pretty typical 3 & D ("Courtney Lee"), I think we've got to look at that as somewhat of a positive considering players like that are always useful the way the game is played now. Less than 10 games in is way too early to say that's all he is.

Also re: the salary argument - his contract doesn't dictate "All Star". Simply by the numbers he has the 45th highest AAV in the NBA which means there are 4 rosters worth of players ahead of him. There are more than 20 guys making max salaries - those are the guys being paid like All Stars.

JJ Reddick is the closest recent comp on open market, has never made an all star game, and as a 33 year old he had multiple teams after him willing to pay a similar or higher AAV. Galinari isn't a great overall comp but he's a shooter who just got a higher AAV and has also never made an all star game. Wes Matthews probably represents the most hopeful upside comparison has also never made an ASG, and has a similar AAV. If Crabbe can maintain his career 40%+ on higher volume with useful defense he will be worth his salary. He hasn't proven he's Reddick/Matthews yet but we've glimpsed the potential and we got him discounted by taking Nicholson's $20M off the books. The problems with this team right now are more systems oriented than players, it's on Atikinson to make adjustments because right now the results are less than the sum of the parts so everyone looks bad.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#226 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 1, 2017 2:58 pm

I'm going to be patient with Crabbe. He hasn't really been able to get in a rhythm offensively. But he competed hard on the defensive end last night. that to me is a good sign. he was struggling but didn't hang his head and he kept at it on D. I'm not sure what the coaches will do to get him more shots so he can going earlier.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#227 » by DusterBuster » Wed Nov 1, 2017 6:39 pm

SpeedyG wrote:I'm not ready to say that Crabbe isn't that guy yet. Yes his % is expected to go down with more usage, but he has gotten some good looks that just hasn't gone down.

More importantly, the shot looks good more often than not when it leaves his hand. and he doesn't look like he's playing without confidence.

He's also been hurt and playing with a new team and is asking to do more than he's done in the NBA ever. The shots have been there (though I'd like to see more sets getting him and Harris easier shots than curling off screen to hit a catch and shoot 3)


I'm not sure I buy that. From what I've seen in the early going of the Nets season, they are either using him exactly how he was used in Portland or he simply just "is what he is". He was asked to be aggressive offensively when he was in the game for the Blazers but he was the same kind of inconsistent with his aggressiveness that he's been showing with the Nets. That's been pretty disappointing to me considering I had really high hopes of him breaking out with what looked like it was going to be a new and expanded role.
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The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#228 » by Paradise » Wed Nov 1, 2017 7:23 pm

He’s no slouch shooting the ball and some of his shots were not really wide open these past few games but I don’t think he doesn’t cut as much as he should.

Although, I was disappointed with him getting outplayed by TJ Warren towards the end of the 4th last night. He can shoot it and I don’t doubt he’ll go off sooner than later


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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#229 » by Prokorov » Wed Nov 1, 2017 8:51 pm

SpeedyG wrote:I'm not ready to say that Crabbe isn't that guy yet. Yes his % is expected to go down with more usage, but he has gotten some good looks that just hasn't gone down.

More importantly, the shot looks good more often than not when it leaves his hand. and he doesn't look like he's playing without confidence.

He's also been hurt and playing with a new team and is asking to do more than he's done in the NBA ever. The shots have been there (though I'd like to see more sets getting him and Harris easier shots than curling off screen to hit a catch and shoot 3)


Here was my initial thoughs at the time as to why I though it was extremely unlikely he would increase scoring without drastically reducing his percentages.... for some perspective:

-In general, it is difficult to maintain an elite 3point percentage year to year. even guys like Korver struggle to maintain 43% or higher year over year.

-Crabbe has only tops 40% one time. He has gotten better each of the last 3 years, but still did not have a long track record of being at over 43% from deep.

-In general More volume = lower percentages. this becomes more concrete the further you get from the rim (at the rim vs in the paint vs midrange vs three etc....)

-He took 97% of he threes in catch and shoot situations last season. Players shoot significantly higher from three in catch and shoot situations. With the Nets, it seemed likely that percentage would go dowm and he would do more shooting on the move. and further less threes from the corner and more straight away (a main option of our motion offense)

-I didnt think he could maintain his FG percentage being asked to create moe offense for himself/score more outside of shooting threes. He really is not a threat off the dribble to hurt you to the point where it would prevent guys from running him off the line... or at least that was the case in portland

now sure, all that could change. Kenny is the best at what he does when it comes to improving older players (not old, but beyond the typical arc). But it just seemed to me from watching him and the stats/aituational stats that it was really unlikely for him to:

A) drastically increase his scoring
B) Not see a dip in his shooting percentages
C) Both A & B at the same time

I thought on our team he would look more like Joe Harris from a shooting percentage standpoint. I dont think that was ever "hating" on Crabbe. and while it not play out that way, I never understood why that was some outlandish statement given they had similar college impact, are similar size, and had similar stats through 3 years (this is harris 4th year, he hadnt played his 4th year yet at the time of those statements).

And my criticism was always of marks. not Crabbe. Crabbe fits. he just doesnt fit at 19 million. its not his fault that Marks overpaid him or traded for him without getting paid for it like a salary dump.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#230 » by Prokorov » Wed Nov 1, 2017 8:56 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:I'm not ready to say that Crabbe isn't that guy yet. Yes his % is expected to go down with more usage, but he has gotten some good looks that just hasn't gone down.

More importantly, the shot looks good more often than not when it leaves his hand. and he doesn't look like he's playing without confidence.

He's also been hurt and playing with a new team and is asking to do more than he's done in the NBA ever. The shots have been there (though I'd like to see more sets getting him and Harris easier shots than curling off screen to hit a catch and shoot 3)


I'm not sure I buy that. From what I've seen in the early going of the Nets season, they are either using him exactly how he was used in Portland or he simply just "is what he is". He was asked to be aggressive offensively when he was in the game for the Blazers but he was the same kind of inconsistent with his aggressiveness that he's been showing with the Nets. That's been pretty disappointing to me considering I had really high hopes of him breaking out with what looked like it was going to be a new and expanded role.


It is clear for people who watched him last year or are farmiliar with his situation in portland. but outsiders are likely going to just assume that liallard/CJ hogged the ball and the coaches saw him as an afterthought

those of us who are farmiliar know that he was encouraged to be aggressive. evens ome times verbally tongue lashed for not being more aggressive by the coaches and media. He had big games in portland and then followe dthem up with like a 4 FGA effort.

im not saying its apples to apples. but i think like lopez a bit of it is the players mindset. some guys just arent the aggressive alpha type.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#231 » by Prokorov » Wed Nov 1, 2017 9:00 pm

Paradise wrote:He’s no slouch shooting the ball and some of his shots were not really wide open these past few games but I don’t think he doesn’t cut as much as he should.

Although, I was disappointed with him getting outplayed by TJ Warren towards the end of the 4th last night. He can shoot it and I don’t doubt he’ll go off sooner than later




I dont disagree. but "not shooting the ball bad" or even "shooting it really well from three" doesnt equate to matching a 44% year from deep from last year. especially with more volume.

I was criticized pretty harshly for suggesting he wouldnt be able to increase volume/scoring without a big dip (to joe harris levels) to like 38-39% from deep.

Some here also called out harris for not being in Crabbes class from deep because he "only" shot it at 38.5%

so for me it is a bit annoying to have people basically giving him a pass for the same thng i speculated would happen that people bashed me for to no end
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#232 » by SpeedyG » Thu Nov 2, 2017 12:36 am

Prokorov wrote:
Paradise wrote:He’s no slouch shooting the ball and some of his shots were not really wide open these past few games but I don’t think he doesn’t cut as much as he should.

Although, I was disappointed with him getting outplayed by TJ Warren towards the end of the 4th last night. He can shoot it and I don’t doubt he’ll go off sooner than later




I dont disagree. but "not shooting the ball bad" or even "shooting it really well from three" doesnt equate to matching a 44% year from deep from last year. especially with more volume.

I was criticized pretty harshly for suggesting he wouldnt be able to increase volume/scoring without a big dip (to joe harris levels) to like 38-39% from deep.

Some here also called out harris for not being in Crabbes class from deep because he "only" shot it at 38.5%

so for me it is a bit annoying to have people basically giving him a pass for the same thng i speculated would happen that people bashed me for to no end


It's been 7 games. It's not giving him a pass, its more a wait and see. The guy was in minutes restriction only a few games ago.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#233 » by GoodDayLa » Thu Nov 2, 2017 2:53 am

TinmanZBoy wrote:
Curns13 wrote:
shakendfries wrote:can somebody tell me why the hell marks paid crabbe???? if you're getting paid $75m & coming off the bench, you better come in the game with a fire under your ass demanding the ball like Shaq cause you know it's going in if it leaves your hand

He needs other the create for him and that just isn’t happening right now. Kenny needs to study hours of Clippers sets to see how JJ got his looks.


he got looks ... just did not fall... also he is not JJ, at least not there yet


JJ Reddick runs around like a mad man with a lot of burst or speed and has Deandre and Blake, 2 physical big guys with mobility, to set quick screens. RHJ and Mosgov are not the same caliber, one slower than those 2 clippers, the other a SF playing PF in Kenny's system.

Crabbe doesn't move that quickly. But he doesn't need to. Look at Klay Thompson. He's quick but not JJ quick. He often shoots over the top with the defender an inch off him. Crabbe can do the same but he does need people to pass him the ball even if he takes the Klay Approach.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#234 » by GoodDayLa » Thu Nov 2, 2017 2:56 am

I think the team is failing Crabbe and not vice versa. This guy can efficiency score 20PPG. Unfortunately only Lin and Dinwiddie can consistently get him going. And since Lin is done, only Spencer can do it right now.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#235 » by GoodDayLa » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:04 am

Prokorov wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:I'm not ready to say that Crabbe isn't that guy yet. Yes his % is expected to go down with more usage, but he has gotten some good looks that just hasn't gone down.

More importantly, the shot looks good more often than not when it leaves his hand. and he doesn't look like he's playing without confidence.

He's also been hurt and playing with a new team and is asking to do more than he's done in the NBA ever. The shots have been there (though I'd like to see more sets getting him and Harris easier shots than curling off screen to hit a catch and shoot 3)


I'm not sure I buy that. From what I've seen in the early going of the Nets season, they are either using him exactly how he was used in Portland or he simply just "is what he is". He was asked to be aggressive offensively when he was in the game for the Blazers but he was the same kind of inconsistent with his aggressiveness that he's been showing with the Nets. That's been pretty disappointing to me considering I had really high hopes of him breaking out with what looked like it was going to be a new and expanded role.


It is clear for people who watched him last year or are farmiliar with his situation in portland. but outsiders are likely going to just assume that liallard/CJ hogged the ball and the coaches saw him as an afterthought

those of us who are farmiliar know that he was encouraged to be aggressive. evens ome times verbally tongue lashed for not being more aggressive by the coaches and media. He had big games in portland and then followe dthem up with like a 4 FGA effort.

im not saying its apples to apples. but i think like lopez a bit of it is the players mindset. some guys just arent the aggressive alpha type.


Lillard and CJ definitely hog the ball inefficiently at times. Unfortunately, I somehow watch about 30 Portland games a year. Yeah its not 82. But of those 30, Lillard and CJ play stupid basketball in about 20 of them and take too many shots and call their own number too often, particularly Lillard. In the other 10, their games are on point and they look phenomenal which is when we see them on ESPN or NBA highlight packages.

Crabbe was underused in Portland with that strange Evan Turner signing not to mention Moe Harkless. Just too many SF clogging things up and Aminu could slide there too.

I dont think we know that Crabbe can't be a nightly 20PPG scorer. If DLO got hurt and Dinwiddie started next to Crabbe, I would put money on the table Crabbe starts to average 18PPG at worst. But Crabbe is not going to score a lot on this team where DLO has the ball in hand. It's the same issue as what was going on in Portland with Lillard and CJ taking all the shots far too often.

DLO has decided Demar Carrol is going to be his scoring sidekick and there is NOTHING Crabbe will be abel to do about it since Crabbe is not a scorer who uses the dribble much. He's catch and shoot but DLo and DC are not looking to pass to him as the first or second option leaving him the 3rd or 4th option when paired with them, and hence he gets low numbers until that stops.

The team knows this, but they can't do anything to fix it because DLO has been given the keys, at least for this season.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#236 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 2, 2017 1:25 pm

GoodDayLa wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
I'm not sure I buy that. From what I've seen in the early going of the Nets season, they are either using him exactly how he was used in Portland or he simply just "is what he is". He was asked to be aggressive offensively when he was in the game for the Blazers but he was the same kind of inconsistent with his aggressiveness that he's been showing with the Nets. That's been pretty disappointing to me considering I had really high hopes of him breaking out with what looked like it was going to be a new and expanded role.


It is clear for people who watched him last year or are farmiliar with his situation in portland. but outsiders are likely going to just assume that liallard/CJ hogged the ball and the coaches saw him as an afterthought

those of us who are farmiliar know that he was encouraged to be aggressive. evens ome times verbally tongue lashed for not being more aggressive by the coaches and media. He had big games in portland and then followe dthem up with like a 4 FGA effort.

im not saying its apples to apples. but i think like lopez a bit of it is the players mindset. some guys just arent the aggressive alpha type.


Lillard and CJ definitely hog the ball inefficiently at times. Unfortunately, I somehow watch about 30 Portland games a year. Yeah its not 82. But of those 30, Lillard and CJ play stupid basketball in about 20 of them and take too many shots and call their own number too often, particularly Lillard. In the other 10, their games are on point and they look phenomenal which is when we see them on ESPN or NBA highlight packages.

Crabbe was underused in Portland with that strange Evan Turner signing not to mention Moe Harkless. Just too many SF clogging things up and Aminu could slide there too.

I dont think we know that Crabbe can't be a nightly 20PPG scorer. If DLO got hurt and Dinwiddie started next to Crabbe, I would put money on the table Crabbe starts to average 18PPG at worst. But Crabbe is not going to score a lot on this team where DLO has the ball in hand. It's the same issue as what was going on in Portland with Lillard and CJ taking all the shots far too often.

DLO has decided Demar Carrol is going to be his scoring sidekick and there is NOTHING Crabbe will be abel to do about it since Crabbe is not a scorer who uses the dribble much. He's catch and shoot but DLo and DC are not looking to pass to him as the first or second option leaving him the 3rd or 4th option when paired with them, and hence he gets low numbers until that stops.

The team knows this, but they can't do anything to fix it because DLO has been given the keys, at least for this season.


This is a bunch of bull ****. This isn't even remotely what's happening on the court. Seriously, how long is this garbage going to be tolerated on this board? Your entire purpose has been to slander Russell with outright lies...you need to be banned from this board.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#237 » by GoodDayLa » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:01 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
GoodDayLa wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
It is clear for people who watched him last year or are farmiliar with his situation in portland. but outsiders are likely going to just assume that liallard/CJ hogged the ball and the coaches saw him as an afterthought

those of us who are farmiliar know that he was encouraged to be aggressive. evens ome times verbally tongue lashed for not being more aggressive by the coaches and media. He had big games in portland and then followe dthem up with like a 4 FGA effort.

im not saying its apples to apples. but i think like lopez a bit of it is the players mindset. some guys just arent the aggressive alpha type.


Lillard and CJ definitely hog the ball inefficiently at times. Unfortunately, I somehow watch about 30 Portland games a year. Yeah its not 82. But of those 30, Lillard and CJ play stupid basketball in about 20 of them and take too many shots and call their own number too often, particularly Lillard. In the other 10, their games are on point and they look phenomenal which is when we see them on ESPN or NBA highlight packages.

Crabbe was underused in Portland with that strange Evan Turner signing not to mention Moe Harkless. Just too many SF clogging things up and Aminu could slide there too.

I dont think we know that Crabbe can't be a nightly 20PPG scorer. If DLO got hurt and Dinwiddie started next to Crabbe, I would put money on the table Crabbe starts to average 18PPG at worst. But Crabbe is not going to score a lot on this team where DLO has the ball in hand. It's the same issue as what was going on in Portland with Lillard and CJ taking all the shots far too often.

DLO has decided Demar Carrol is going to be his scoring sidekick and there is NOTHING Crabbe will be abel to do about it since Crabbe is not a scorer who uses the dribble much. He's catch and shoot but DLo and DC are not looking to pass to him as the first or second option leaving him the 3rd or 4th option when paired with them, and hence he gets low numbers until that stops.

The team knows this, but they can't do anything to fix it because DLO has been given the keys, at least for this season.


This is a bunch of bull ****. This isn't even remotely what's happening on the court. Seriously, how long is this garbage going to be tolerated on this board? Your entire purpose has been to slander Russell with outright lies...you need to be banned from this board.


I get that you dont like the personal takes I add to my posts, but my observations are my honest takes. Could my takes be wrong? Sure. But it's what I see. It's why these forums exists. I'm no different than anyone else giving my take.

Now I don't think DLO or anyone on this team is doing anything malicious. I think every player on the Nets is trying 100% to win. However, the road they take in trying to win is not always going to be the right road even if they think it is.

I dont believe DLO is malicious in trusting DC. I believe DLO is doing his best to try and win every game. He believes DC is a reliable teammate because DC IS very reliable and shown himself to be very good for this team. However that is a microcosm of the situation and I'm trying to pinpoint part of the reasons why I see Crabbe having a tough time getting going without a team scheme to help him get going off catch and shoot game which is mainly all he has shown so far in the NBA.

I am not attacking anyone integrity. This is a style of play issue resulting in Crabbe having a tough time getting going.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#238 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:11 pm

Your projection and conjecture aren't honest takes dude.

"DLO has decided Demar Carrol is going to be his scoring sidekick"

"He's catch and shoot but DLo and DC are not looking to pass to him as the first or second option leaving him the 3rd or 4th option when paired with them"

" He believes DC is a reliable teammate because DC IS very reliable and shown himself to be very good for this team. "

^^^this is a outright B.S.

How do you know this? Are you in this kid's head? Are you in Carroll's head?

You are projecting your own assumptions and thoughts onto Russell and are trying to claim that is what he is thinking and doing. I can't begin to break down how warped that is, nevermind slanderous. That's why you're getting accused of trolling.

You also discount the fact that defenses aren't giving Crabbe any breathing room and Crabbe hasn't really been assertive in moving without the ball. Most of his shots are contested.
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Prokorov
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#239 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 2, 2017 5:06 pm

Can we not take what was a great conversation about Allen Crabbe and turn it into some criticism of Russell?
Aussienet3
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#240 » by Aussienet3 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 10:08 pm

Prokorov wrote:Can we not take what was a great conversation about Allen Crabbe and turn it into some criticism of Russell?


Can we not take what was a great conversation about Allen Crabbe and turn it into Joe Harris? :lol:

Dude got a lucky pay day when the salary cap jumped massively. You need to move on.

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