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Updates on former Wolves

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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#121 » by Zeitgeister » Wed Nov 1, 2017 10:56 am

GimmeDat wrote:Interested to hear your thoughts on the many people that argue against LaVine's effectiveness citing advanced stats that suggest his team is not better with him on the floor.


I'm assuming these people are citing last season? I have always said that wasn't very fair. LaVine's defense is an issue to be sure, but clearly he wasn't the only Wolf that was atrocious on that end. LaVine was playing very well at the start of the season, he was our best offensive player.

At the start of the season, KAT was trying to do too much he wanted to prove he was the leader and would take over the team after KG retired, he said as much basically. He was also seeing a lot more defensive attention and I think it was a hard adjustment for him. He was forcing shots over multiple defenders, taking too many threes etc.

Thibs was also experimenting during this time to see what Wiggins was capable of in more of a facilitating role. Needless to say, it didn't go so well. Combine all of that with the fact that Rubio was playing off the ball and he had some of the worst gravity as a shooter I've ever seen in my life. Rubio would pass it and his guy would often send a hard double at KAT or shade heavily towards Wiggins so he couldn't drive etc. and when people would pass it to Rubio he would be paralyzed in fear of shooting. None of those things were LaVine's fault.

How I would summarize LaVine's game offensively is a guy who was a high level three point shooter, a high level transition scorer, with the ability to operate in the half court reasonably well, nothing great. His passing game is solid with potential to be more.

So basically when LaVine went down, Wiggins was moved to the 2 and played a lot more off ball. Rubio was running the offense a lot more while also starting to get out of his shooting funk and Towns was dealing with multiple defenders a lot better and finished the season really strong.

The team did get better after LaVine went down (not by a lot) but there's a lot of context behind why it happened.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#122 » by GimmeDat » Wed Nov 1, 2017 11:09 am

Zeitgeister wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:Interested to hear your thoughts on the many people that argue against LaVine's effectiveness citing advanced stats that suggest his team is not better with him on the floor.


I'm assuming these people are citing last season? I have always said that wasn't very fair. LaVine's defense is an issue to be sure, but clearly he wasn't the only Wolf that was atrocious on that end. LaVine was playing very well at the start of the season, he was our best offensive player.

At the start of the season, KAT was trying to do too much he wanted to prove he was the leader and would take over the team after KG retired, he said as much basically. He was also seeing a lot more defensive attention and I think it was a hard adjustment for him. He was forcing shots over multiple defenders, taking too many threes etc.

Thibs was also experimenting during this time to see what Wiggins was capable of in more of a facilitating role. Needless to say, it didn't go so well. Combine all of that with the fact that Rubio was playing off the ball and he had some of the worst gravity as a shooter I've ever seen in my life. Rubio would pass it and his guy would often send a hard double at KAT or shade heavily towards Wiggins so he couldn't drive etc. and when people would pass it to Rubio he would be paralyzed in fear of shooting. None of those things were LaVine's fault.

How I would summarize LaVine's game offensively is a guy who was a high level three point shooter, a high level transition scorer, with the ability to operate in the half court reasonably well, nothing great. His passing game is solid with potential to be more.

So basically when LaVine went down, Wiggins was moved to the 2 and played a lot more off ball. Rubio was running the offense a lot more while also starting to get out of his shooting funk and Towns was dealing with multiple defenders a lot better and finished the season really strong.

The team did get better after LaVine went down (not by a lot) but there's a lot of context behind why it happened.


Great post, thanks for the insight. I can't remember exactly what the argument has been, but I've seen quite a few people use it, I think it boils down to on/off stats and other advanced statistics. So perhaps not so much to do with how the team went after he went down, but still, I find it hard to see how a guy who scores the ball at the volume and efficiency he does isn't a positive force to a team, even with poor defense.

I'm looking forward to getting him back and seeing (down the track) if he can build on the player he's already proven to be. Hopefully he's a Bull for a long time. Some people are scared to pay him but I'm completely happy with it - he's a heck of a player with even higher upside and a brilliant attitude and work ethic.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#123 » by GimmeDat » Thu Nov 2, 2017 12:46 am

This is the best game I've seen from Dunn since he got here (ofc he's been injured since opening night but this includes preseason).

Looking good in PnR, aggressive and confident, a few big blocks, and dunked all over Olynyk -

https://streamable.com/3p8c4
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#124 » by D1SGRUNTL3D » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:26 am

Rubio has 1 assist tonight and KAT had 2 points. Halloween tricks were supposed to be yesterday
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#125 » by D1SGRUNTL3D » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:27 am

GimmeDat wrote:This is the best game I've seen from Dunn since he got here (ofc he's been injured since opening night but this includes preseason).

Looking good in PnR, aggressive and confident, a few big blocks, and dunked all over Olynyk -

https://streamable.com/3p8c4

His athleticism is undeniable. wow. Wonder what those guys were saying.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#126 » by GimmeDat » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:32 am

D1SGRUNTL3D wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:This is the best game I've seen from Dunn since he got here (ofc he's been injured since opening night but this includes preseason).

Looking good in PnR, aggressive and confident, a few big blocks, and dunked all over Olynyk -

https://streamable.com/3p8c4

His athleticism is undeniable. wow. Wonder what those guys were saying.


I take it back, he had a horrid 2nd half. Finished with 5 TO's. But yeah, that definitely felt like I was watching Providence Dunn for a second there.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#127 » by Cyborg21 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:45 am

30 for Ricky!
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#128 » by theGreatRC » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:46 am

Cyborg21 wrote:30 for Ricky!


Yessir!! 11 points in OT, happy for him
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#129 » by PharmD » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:48 am

Ricky with gigantic cajones, wow!

WOW!!
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#130 » by Merc_Porto » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:51 am

He looks like a young Al Pacino with that look. Anyway...

36 Minutes
30 Pts (8-17 FG) (3-6 from 3)
1 Ast
5 Reb
2 Stl
4 TOs
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#131 » by PortugalTheMan » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:51 am

Again. Thank you guys!

And the second most awesome thing, next to the players itself, is you guys suportting him and the Jazz because of him. I already liked the guy, but damn, is he fun!
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Updates on former Wolves 

Post#132 » by minimus » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:00 am

Damn, I am almost crying when I see Rubio sweet revenge against all haters. Keep it up, the Spanish Unicorn!
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#133 » by PharmD » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:01 am

PortugalTheMan wrote:Again. Thank you guys!

And the second most awesome thing, next to the players itself, is you guys suportting him and the Jazz because of him. I already liked the guy, but damn, is he fun!

That team plays with so much heart!

Wolves are playing with a bunch of heart too. Awesome change to have 2 teams like that after a decade of gutless wolves teams.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#134 » by D1SGRUNTL3D » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:06 am

minimus wrote:Damn, I am almost crying when I see Rubio sweet revenge against all haters. Keep it up, the Spanish Unicorn!

huh? hes 0-1 vs his old team.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#135 » by minimus » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:42 am

D1SGRUNTL3D wrote:
minimus wrote:Damn, I am almost crying when I see Rubio sweet revenge against all haters. Keep it up, the Spanish Unicorn!

huh? hes 0-1 vs his old team.


Oh, crap. I forgot that biggest Rubio's haters are among Wolves fans :D
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#136 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:46 am

We used rubio all wrong during his time here.

He should have been the first option.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#137 » by Klomp » Thu Nov 2, 2017 8:55 am

"One of the best sentences ever was Magic Johnson say a basket make one guy happy, an assist two guys happy." - Ricky Rubio

Ricky, you've changed.....
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#138 » by _AIJ_ » Thu Nov 2, 2017 9:40 am

Feast on boys lol

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LETS GO WOLVES!!! 8-)
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#139 » by Jstock12 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 11:15 am

43.7% FG
37.2% 3PT

Well, it took Ricky slightly longer than Kidd to become a respectable shooter. But the sky's the limit for him from now on if he can keep it up. He's entered his prime now. I'm really curious how much better as a shooter he can still become.
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Re: Updates on former Wolves 

Post#140 » by jpatrick » Thu Nov 2, 2017 12:27 pm

Butler adds something this team desperately needed,toughness on the wing. Plus,being a top 20 NBA player doesn’t hurt.

But, I can’t help but think Rubio, Lavine, the Finnish Dirk, and Dunn would have been fun to watch.

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