What to do with all our wings when nic is back?

[JDR720]

We have nic, mkg, bacon, lamb and Graham for 2 positions. I think all of them are rotation worthy for 15+mpg. ...so...

-who gets benched?
-trade someone?
-just find out how to play them all?

[JDR720]

On a completely random side note.

Bacon Lamb Graham's would be a fantastic band name.

[Braggins]

Kemba/Monk/MCW
Batum/Lamb/
MKG/Graham/Bacon
Marv/Frank/JOB
Dwight/Cody

Probably as simple as that. Lamb will be the 6th man and Graham and Bacon will share 4th wing spot based on matchups (priority to Graham based on defense and seniority). I hope to see some minutes with Batum + Monk/Lamb/Frank/Cody against second units. Batum/Cody PnR was one of our best offensive actions last season and Monk will look so much better with Batum/Lamb dominating the ball. Cliff will likely bring Batum off the bench for a while, so he and Lamb will be swapped and for a time our regular 2nd unit will be Monk/Graham/Batum/Frank/Cody...

[yosemiteben]

MCW is going to be in the rotation.

[chabber]

All I care is that these guys get minutes, because most can play offense/defense and with this teams make up I'll lean towards offensive players.

Kemba
Monk
Batum
Lamb
Marv
Frank
Howard
Cody

Let the guys below fight it out and eat what they kill.

MKG
Graham
Bacon
MCW

[catch20two]

Kemba/Monk/Batum
Lamb/Monk/Batum
Batum/MKG/Lamb
Marv/Frank/MKG
Dwight/Cody/Frank

If Lamb keeps up this level of play for the next month like I’m expecting I think it would be wrong to bench him when Batum returns. However MKG hasn’t really shown anything to warrant staying in the starting lineup besides be solid and not be a deterrent. MKG’s defensive prowess and hustle could be used with the 2nd unit to stabilize the unit around Monk’s scoring. I just think MKG is a better fit alongside Monk than Lamb.

I also love the idea of a staggered lineup where Batum becomes the de facto PG with the 2nd unit alongside Monk. If Clifford pulls Batum around the halfway mark of the 1st quarter for one of MKG or Monk and bring him back in at the top of the 2nd quarter it would be just that.

I see it as MKG and Monk both being 6th men where Clifford could insert whichever of the two best fit the personnel we’re going against. If we need defense then Clifford should throw in MKG first. If we need offense then Clifford should throw in Monk first. It just makes our lineups and rotations more versatile.

We should only have a 8 player rotation that can stretch to 11 with Bacon and Graham (and MCW I guess ) on the heels of back-to-backs if necessary.

[Zombiesonics]

Kemba/Monk/Batum
Lamb/Monk/Batum
Batum/MKG/Lamb
Marv/Frank/MKG
Dwight/Cody/Frank

If Lamb keeps up this level of play for the next month like I’m expecting I think it would be wrong to bench him when Batum returns. However MKG hasn’t really shown anything to warrant staying in the starting lineup besides be solid and not be a deterrent. MKG’s defensive prowess and hustle could be used with the 2nd unit to stabilize the unit around Monk’s scoring. I just think MKG is a better fit alongside Monk than Lamb.

I also love the idea of a staggered lineup where Batum becomes the de facto PG with the 2nd unit alongside Monk. If Clifford pulls Batum around the halfway mark of the 1st quarter for one of MKG or Monk and bring him back in at the top of the 2nd quarter it would be just that.

I see it as MKG and Monk both being 6th men where Clifford could insert whichever of the two best fit the personnel we’re going against. If we need defense then Clifford should throw in MKG first. If we need offense then Clifford should throw in Monk first. It just makes our lineups and rotations more versatile.

We should only have a 8 player rotation that can stretch to 11 with Bacon and Graham (and MCW I guess ) on the heels of back-to-backs if necessary.

Mkg is very useful vs star pgs so they can let Kemba rest a little, Batum needs to tighten up his shot selection he can’t come back jacking those crazy contested shots to the tune of 40% fg . Bacon graham and lamb are all coming into their own so it’ll be interesting for sure. Good problems to have tho...

[amcoolio]

Bacon and Graham's minutes are replaced. As much as I like Bacon he is still a year or two away. He was getting worked by Middleton on screens last night. And Graham is still pretty raw.

If MCW gets healthy, and only focuses on defense and getting Monk/Frank/Zeller the ball in right situations, then he's a perfect fit for the 2nd lineup.

But I'm all for trading a few of them in a package for Bledsoe. That way we can have two of Kemba/Batum/Bledsoe on the floor at any time during the game, which means we would be really, really good.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Regarding MCW, I’m sure that the off-season intent was to have him in the rotation. I think that how things actually play out now is still in the air. We don’t know how healthy he is or how well he will fit in Cliff’s system yet.

Batum
Interesting Stats this year: N/A
Average Playing Time this year: N/A
Average Playing Time last year: 34.0 mpg
Potential Positions: SG, SF, or PF in a small lineup

Batum may see the current MKG treatment when he first comes back – playing super reduced minutes until proving to be healthy and back in condition, but it’s only a matter of time before he is starting and getting starter minutes. One thing I do expect is that this year’s depth will mean that he plays fewer minutes overall so that he’s fresh for closing out games in the 4th.

MKG
Interesting Stats this year: .571 FG%, FGA per 36 min lowest since sophomore year
Average Playing Time this year: 16.4 mpg
Average Playing Time last year: 29.0 mpg
Potential Positions: SF, SG or PF in a small lineup

MKG is playing super reduced minutes right now. While I think that part of this is due to his absence and potential conditioning issues, I also think that the other guys are currently showing greater value than expected, and that MKG’s superb one way play is not enough to overcome the two way value and offensive spacing that others are providing this year. I think, that in the long term MKG is going to need to show improvement to keep getting minutes … and to keep starting. He is shooting a good percentage this year, so shots are going in, but – in an admittedly small sample size – he’s taking fewer shots per minute than he has in a long time. Also, I view MKG as a quick defender, not a strong one. He is far better at guarding a PG than he is at defending a decently sized PF.

Lamb
Interesting Stats this year: .400 3P%, Assist per 36 min at all-time high, DBPM at all-time high
Average Playing Time this year: 30.3 mpg
Average Playing Time last year: 18.4 mpg
Potential Positions: SF, SG or PF in a small lineup

As I posted in the Buck’s game thread, Lamb has proven me wrong. He is looking really good with the starters and is posting all time high 3 point accuracy + showing a good defensive impact. It’s early, but at this point I personally would be more than willing to roll with Lamb as a long term starter this year.

Monk
Interesting Stats this year: 9.9 3PA per 36 min, worst DBPM on the team
Average Playing Time this year: 21.9 mpg
Potential Positions: SG, PG, or SF in a super small lineup

More or less as expected Monk shines on offense and is not doing as well on defense. The wrinkle has been MCW’s injury resulting in him being forced to play point. While he has looked much better when playing with Kemba and getting to be off ball, he has started to show improvement when paying point as well. I suspect that we will continue to see Monk at point some even when MCW comes back given his recent play.

Graham
Interesting Stats this year: .370 FG%, decent DBPM and DRtg
Average Playing Time this year: 19.9 mpg
Average Playing Time last year: 7.0 mpg
Potential Positions: SF, SG or PF in a small lineup

Graham’s shooting is below last year’s averages by quite a bit. I suspect that we are seeing the results of small sample size at this point, but it’s also possible that he has been negatively impacted by being surrounded by more shooters and having an inexperienced PG in Monk. Graham is one of the players whom I most expect to see minute reductions going forward, due mostly to his contract status (not a recent draft pick & not making big $). I expect his role to end up being either no play or something very similar to what it was last year through no fault of his own. Greater depth and wing talent vs any improvement on his end.


Bacon
Interesting Stats this year: .327 FG%, Good DBPM, but only OK DRtg.
Average Playing Time this year: 23.8 mpg
Potential Positions: SF, SG or PF in a small lineup

Bacon is showing better than expected defense. That’s big for Cliff. However, one of the reasons Bacon slipped to the 2nd round was because there was concern about what his shot selection might look like as a pro. So far he’s doing little to dispel concerns about that. It’s obvious that he can shoot, he’s just shooting too soon or not taking the best shot available at all times. Monk does some of the same stuff, but seems to be making more of them. Cliff obviously likes Bacon so I expect him to still get some PT going forward, and he’s still a potential backup starter if someone else goes down.


Projections

Kemba (29) / MCW (17) / Monk (2)
Nic (29) / Monk (16) / Bacon (3)
Lamb (23) / MKG (18) / Bacon (7)
Marvin (21) / Frank (24) / Cody (3)
Dwight (29) / Cody (19)

[Braggins]

MCW is going to be in the rotation.

Why? Hes not exactly a high level playmaker, has never shown good decision making, and he can't shoot at all. Why would a player like that who is signed on a one year near minimum deal get inserted into the rotation after not having played for multiple months. How can you justify playing MCW over Graham? Graham is younger, probably is already the better defender, and his shot isn't completely broken. Bacon is younger, has size, and can shoot. Is he going to be given Monks spot? Lamb and Batum are going to be doing most of the attacking and PnR action with the 2nd unit. I don't see what MCW would add to that scenario on offense and his defense won't be needed that badly. MCW should be nothing more than emergency depth that allows us to cut Stone once we are fully healthy.

[Hornet Mania]

I agree with Vanderbilt_Grad's projections, except I think Cliff will stick with MKG in the starting unit.

Graham seems to be the odd man out. I love how solid he is, but realistically Lamb/Bacon/Monk all have higher ceilings and can theoretically help us a lot more. If the discipline in the 2nd unit goes to hell or something without Graham's presence then bring him back, but otherwise he's the guy who has to lose out here imo.

[Braggins]

I really dont think MCW will be in the rotation unless Monk really struggles. Monk can get the ball past half court and guard the opposing PG. If Lamb or Batum will be the primary ball handler then MCWs PG skills arent needed and we have defensive options that can shoot a little. MCW/Monk/Lamb or Batum, seems like a worse setup tham Monk/Graham or Bacon/Lamb or Batum.

[yosemiteben]

Monk only got PG time when Stone went down, and I don't think Monk has shown that he can be an NBA level PG in terms of organizing an offense. I love seeing Monk go off, but he's not ready to do heavy lifting at the PG spot IMO.

I still think MCW is an ideal pairing with Monk if he can play D.

[bravor]

... Monk can get the ball past half court and guard the opposing PG. If Lamb or Batum will be the primary ball handler then MCWs PG skills arent needed and we have defensive options that can shoot a little. MCW/Monk/Lamb or Batum, seems like a worse setup tham Monk/Graham or Bacon/Lamb or Batum.

Obviously, he can't, and i think it's highly unlikely he can really drastically improve defensively no matter how young he is. And not just his awareness when we talk about recognizing other team's offense. I am not gonna overreact from the Memphis game, but he is what he is supposed to be, a great shooter from various range, and a major offense boost from the bench. With potential playmaking skills.

The purpose of geting MCW is obviously to get someone when opponent's offense are cheating with Monk, but still, MCW could have an impact not just because we switch him when necessary, but even from the pressure and potential mess he could (can?) provoke. Kinda the counterpart of Howard for the guard position.

From now anyway we have to hope that both MCW and Batum's defense will be good enough to fit with most lines up (starters or bench). Once we know what to expect, most likely Hornet's staff will already have made some decision concerning wings and maybe shop one before deadline.

ps : Like Hornetmania, i think we should keep Bacon over Graham in case. The potential is much higher (on both ends) even if he does more mistakes (for now).
Best scenario would be to trade one for Portis if the Bulls become desperate about finding someone for him. in such scenario, there would be defense specialist for each spot, including pf spot where it's the most glaring need.

[yosemiteben]

When we tighten the rotation down the line, maybe MCW gets squeezed out, but not pre-ASB. I think our win streak is concealing how poorly the Monk at PG experiment has gone. Our bench was supposed to be a strength, but just look at our bench's net rating and +/- and they've been awful.

[Mystical Apples]

Hornets can't realize their offensive ceiling without the threat of an offscreen shooter hitting challenged shots on each unit. Those 2 players are Nic and Malik.

MCW will play and if he's not right, Cho will find another professional PG. Bacon and Treveon are likely out of the rotation which, you know, isn't something I'd wanna tell Treveon. Long-term though I'd suspect a consolidation trade will clear a path for PJ Tucker Treveon.

[316Hornets]

Projections

Kemba (29) / MCW (17) / Monk (2)
Nic (29) / Monk (16) / Bacon (3)
Lamb (23) / MKG (18) / Bacon (7)
Marvin (21) / Frank (24) / Cody (3)
Dwight (29) / Cody (19)

This is the lineup I'd like to see Cliff use. The main question is whether to start Lamb or MKG. Gut tells me Cliff is going to stick with MKG, I think that's the wrong decision.

[yosemiteben]

Agree MA. This is the first time that I think an MKG trade is viable.

[tondi123]

I think we should play them based on who is performing. Seniority, contracts, Cliffs favorites, etc should be totally irrelevant. If Graham or Bacon is playing well then MKG sits. Same thing with Lamb and Batum. None of our wings should be getting minutes they haven't earned.

[316Hornets]

Agree MA. This is the first time that I think an MKG trade is viable.

As much as I'd love to go all-in on this year, I think the smart choice would be to trade MKG or Lamb for a future draft pick. Kemba is likely looking at a massive contract very soon and we already have Batum on the books for quite a bit as well.

If we could land a top 20 first round draft pick for either of those two, I think it'd pay big dividends into the future. Other choice, and my personal favorite, would be to trade Batum, but what team in their right mind would take him at that price?