"A Nation Divided, Sports United" ~ The Equality & Other Issues Thread

[165bows]

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

All good. I have a degree in History from Harvard with a special concentration in Government. There is no equivalent in our past of a major political candidate working with a hostile foreign government in exchange for giving them favorable policy. 100 years ago, these guys would have already been put to a firing squad.

As to Republicans, they are lost in the woods and have been for a while. From fighting tooth and nail against climate change to starting preemptive wars under false pretenses to supporting tax windfalls for the top 0.1% at the expense of everyone else to getting triggered over protests by clearly oppressed people, they are literally on the wrong side of every major challenge of our time. That's literally no hyperbole, just a statement of facts. There is literally not one redeeming aspect of the current GOP platform.

As a moderate who would prefer two strong parties, I say they are cordially invited to get their heads out of their asses and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Yes there is. Manafort quite literally was working with the Podestas on the activity which brought some of his charges. They are all guilty of the same thing, and frankly it's the same bull that has been going on forever. Wikileaks themselves released documents showing US interference in 81 foreign elections, and if you think the opposite hasn't been happening here I consider that, with your background, willfully naive and/or overly dramatic. This **** is and has always happened.

[165bows]

I really don't think he is being that dramatic about how selfish and evil the current GOP is. I'm blown away at the amount of people who turn a blind eye to race issues in that party, and that's just one topic (beyond the whole Russian corruption situation) that doesn't even cover the fact that they are pretty much turning a blind eye to every single minority group issue (women, LGBT, etc). I'm at the point where I consider most people who support the current GOP to either being incredibly ignorant, selfish, or straight up evil.

This is basically the over-dramatism that I am referring to. There was real concern about what would happen going forward a year ago from people in that community, and I agree, rightly so. But most of the fears were way overblown (legal gay marriage going away being the primary one), so to continue to hold these intense views about people being evil is a bit much.

I'm not telling anyone what to believe or like, but this whole 'evil' thing is dramatic IMO.

It's not happening because the courts are shutting this stuff down left and right, but that doesn't absolve the republicans of blame for attempting to do some truly awful things. As a minority who had to watch her mom rush to get her citizenship over the last year even though she has a green card, just because Trump and the republicans are seriously ridiculously xenophobic completely shades my view point. Maybe you would say that's overkill for my mom to do, but that was a post to give you an idea of how immigrants feel right now.

Also I didn't say they were all evil. I said they were either ignorant, selfish, or evil. If a republican doesn't have questionable views on race issues, I don't consider that person evil, but I do think the core of the party has questionable views engrained in them which makes support for that core either ignorant or morally evil. I think there are plenty of republicans who don't realize how questionable the core of their party is from a morality stand point or do not even truly understand what racism is, which reeks of ignorance to me. Then there are those who totally buy into it (the alt-right), and I consider those people evil, which unfortunately is the Trump administration.

Trump still has a what? Like 65+% approval rate with the republican base? If his approval rate is that high even with all the xenophobic and racist stuff he has tried to pull, forgive me for calling out the party for being partly evil.

I don't think it is dramatic at all. I think not calling it for what it is, is the real issue. That's what allows republicans to go around fear mongering about immigrants and the like. We need to call it evil. It just is. We can't have a party in this country that tries to push these viewpoints as though it is a rightful political opinion.

I'm glad your mother has gotten her citizenship.

I'm going to put this in a little perspective. Every country in the world has immigration law. The US is a representative form of government where officials are elected to enact laws and policies for the country. If you think that is 'seriously ridiculously xenophobic' I suggest looking at other countries' systems. Go to Cuba or China and let me know where on the scale of ridiculous xenophobia you feel they fall on. Your calibration on these terms may need some examination.

My point is this is a suggestion that people back away from the ledge of dramatism a bit and allow others their rights to their representative government without slandering them, which is what you are doing and that quite frankly for most people is undeserved.

[Curmudgeon]

This **** is and has always happened.

We've had our share of corrupt demagogues (e.g. Huey Long) and even corrupt presidents (Harding, Nixon), but nothing on this scale.
Put Citizens United (big money controls the candidates from both parties and we don't even know who the donors are) together with Cambridge Analytica (big data allows mass manipulation of an undereducated electorate through social media) and the entire system is in peril. The marriage of big money and big data is what allowed the Russians to meddle successfully in our electoral process.

Citizens United ranks right up there with Dred Scott and Plessy v. Ferguson as one of the most destructive court decisions in our history.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

All good. I have a degree in History from Harvard with a special concentration in Government. There is no equivalent in our past of a major political candidate working with a hostile foreign government in exchange for giving them favorable policy. 100 years ago, these guys would have already been put to a firing squad.

As to Republicans, they are lost in the woods and have been for a while. From fighting tooth and nail against climate change to starting preemptive wars under false pretenses to supporting tax windfalls for the top 0.1% at the expense of everyone else to getting triggered over protests by clearly oppressed people, they are literally on the wrong side of every major challenge of our time. That's literally no hyperbole, just a statement of facts. There is literally not one redeeming aspect of the current GOP platform.

As a moderate who would prefer two strong parties, I say they are cordially invited to get their heads out of their asses and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Yes there is. Manafort quite literally was working with the Podestas on the activity which brought some of his charges. They are all guilty of the same thing, and frankly it's the same bull that has been going on forever. Wikileaks themselves released documents showing US interference in 81 foreign elections, and if you think the opposite hasn't been happening here I consider that, with your background, willfully naive and/or overly dramatic. This **** is and has always happened.

Yeah it's disgusting to me that the U.S. has a history of meddling in foreign elections. That doesn't mean we should shrug when it happens to our own election.

[DarkAzcura]

This is basically the over-dramatism that I am referring to. There was real concern about what would happen going forward a year ago from people in that community, and I agree, rightly so. But most of the fears were way overblown (legal gay marriage going away being the primary one), so to continue to hold these intense views about people being evil is a bit much.

I'm not telling anyone what to believe or like, but this whole 'evil' thing is dramatic IMO.

It's not happening because the courts are shutting this stuff down left and right, but that doesn't absolve the republicans of blame for attempting to do some truly awful things. As a minority who had to watch her mom rush to get her citizenship over the last year even though she has a green card, just because Trump and the republicans are seriously ridiculously xenophobic completely shades my view point. Maybe you would say that's overkill for my mom to do, but that was a post to give you an idea of how immigrants feel right now.

Also I didn't say they were all evil. I said they were either ignorant, selfish, or evil. If a republican doesn't have questionable views on race issues, I don't consider that person evil, but I do think the core of the party has questionable views engrained in them which makes support for that core either ignorant or morally evil. I think there are plenty of republicans who don't realize how questionable the core of their party is from a morality stand point or do not even truly understand what racism is, which reeks of ignorance to me. Then there are those who totally buy into it (the alt-right), and I consider those people evil, which unfortunately is the Trump administration.

Trump still has a what? Like 65+% approval rate with the republican base? If his approval rate is that high even with all the xenophobic and racist stuff he has tried to pull, forgive me for calling out the party for being partly evil.

I don't think it is dramatic at all. I think not calling it for what it is, is the real issue. That's what allows republicans to go around fear mongering about immigrants and the like. We need to call it evil. It just is. We can't have a party in this country that tries to push these viewpoints as though it is a rightful political opinion.

I'm glad your mother has gotten her citizenship.

I'm going to put this in a little perspective. Every country in the world has immigration law. The US is a representative form of government where officials are elected to enact laws and policies for the country. If you think that is 'seriously ridiculously xenophobic' I suggest looking at other countries' systems. Go to Cuba or China and let me know where on the scale of ridiculous xenophobia you feel they fall on. Your calibration on these terms may need some examination.

My point is this is a suggestion that people back away from the ledge of dramatism a bit and allow others their rights to their representative government without slandering them, which is what you are doing and that quite frankly for most people is undeserved.

I don't care about Cuba's or China's politics. I am in the United States where we should all be equal. That attempted Muslim ban on specific countries was straight up racist. There were people with green cards (perfectly legal permanent residents) and visas being blocked from entry to the US after that attempted ban. Their desire for a wall on the Mexican-US border is fueled by racist ideology. No backing down from that. If we aren't wiling to calling it what it is, Republicans will continue with their awful "political viewpoints".

Yeah, most of this stuff keeps getting blocked, but it's really no thanks to a majority of Republicans who are essentially wasting our time with backwards ideology.

Also, I'm not slandering people who don't give a crap about me because I am not white. It's just truth. Sorry if it hurts for you to hear that, but that's some serious spin you got going on in your post (not really appreciating the accusation of slandering). I'm not stopping anyone from having their rights to a representative government. What a ridiculous take. I think your views on racism and xenophobia are in serious need of re-examination if you think this is all "over-dramatized." One of Trump's biggest advisers was essentially the owner of Brietbart, a source of alt-right news, aka basically white nationalism. That's who Republicans allowed to become president. I don't even want to get into Jeff Sessions. This country let a bunch of white nationalists into the White House. They just don't care about people like me. That's not over-dramatization. You need to wake up if you think minorities are "over-dramatizing" these issues. Don't belittle the issues instead.

I have no idea what it is, whether it is selfishness, ignorance, or pure evil, but something is preventing the Republican party from seriously acknowledging the race issues they have within their party. It needs to be called out on and fixed, and the other side shouldn't be told they are over-dramatizing a very real issue that hits the core of a major political party in this country. So what do you want me to say? Sure, a lot of Republicans are not inherently racist or evil, but they continue to vote in racists so how does that make them any better exactly? In some ways it is even worse.

[Andrew McCeltic]

This is basically the over-dramatism that I am referring to. There was real concern about what would happen going forward a year ago from people in that community, and I agree, rightly so. But most of the fears were way overblown (legal gay marriage going away being the primary one), so to continue to hold these intense views about people being evil is a bit much.

I'm not telling anyone what to believe or like, but this whole 'evil' thing is dramatic IMO.

It's not happening because the courts are shutting this stuff down left and right, but that doesn't absolve the republicans of blame for attempting to do some truly awful things. As a minority who had to watch her mom rush to get her citizenship over the last year even though she has a green card, just because Trump and the republicans are seriously ridiculously xenophobic completely shades my view point. Maybe you would say that's overkill for my mom to do, but that was a post to give you an idea of how immigrants feel right now.

Also I didn't say they were all evil. I said they were either ignorant, selfish, or evil. If a republican doesn't have questionable views on race issues, I don't consider that person evil, but I do think the core of the party has questionable views engrained in them which makes support for that core either ignorant or morally evil. I think there are plenty of republicans who don't realize how questionable the core of their party is from a morality stand point or do not even truly understand what racism is, which reeks of ignorance to me. Then there are those who totally buy into it (the alt-right), and I consider those people evil, which unfortunately is the Trump administration.

Trump still has a what? Like 65+% approval rate with the republican base? If his approval rate is that high even with all the xenophobic and racist stuff he has tried to pull, forgive me for calling out the party for being partly evil.

I don't think it is dramatic at all. I think not calling it for what it is, is the real issue. That's what allows republicans to go around fear mongering about immigrants and the like. We need to call it evil. It just is. We can't have a party in this country that tries to push these viewpoints as though it is a rightful political opinion.

I'm glad your mother has gotten her citizenship.

I'm going to put this in a little perspective. Every country in the world has immigration law. The US is a representative form of government where officials are elected to enact laws and policies for the country. If you think that is 'seriously ridiculously xenophobic' I suggest looking at other countries' systems. Go to Cuba or China and let me know where on the scale of ridiculous xenophobia you feel they fall on. Your calibration on these terms may need some examination.

My point is this is a suggestion that people back away from the ledge of dramatism a bit and allow others their rights to their representative government without slandering them, which is what you are doing and that quite frankly for most people is undeserved.

Yeah, you're right, technically- other countries, including our allies, have stricter immigration laws. Technically, wanting to have a tighter process domestically isn't Absolute Evil.

But the push for stricter immigration laws is absolutely tied to xenophobia - before Trump entered the race crowing about "a wall" (an idea he supposedly didn't like, but perpetuated once he saw how it made his crowds roar), no one really gave a damn about immigration. It wasn't on anyone's agenda. So why is it suddenly so "popular" an issue? Why is the idea of a "wall" so psychologically appealing? Why do Trump voters love hearing fairy tales about illegal immigrants hitting people with cars and bringing "drugs and crime and rapists"? Those things happen, but they're very very minor issues within the bigger picture - immigrants are *less* likely to commit crimes than citizens. It's about race and racism and "whiteness", and partially about an irrational demand for "safety", too, in relation to the intermittent, mostly minuscule threat of terrorism.

There's also a different case to be made about immigration, which is that our openness to it is a major economic advantage.

[DarkAzcura]

It's not happening because the courts are shutting this stuff down left and right, but that doesn't absolve the republicans of blame for attempting to do some truly awful things. As a minority who had to watch her mom rush to get her citizenship over the last year even though she has a green card, just because Trump and the republicans are seriously ridiculously xenophobic completely shades my view point. Maybe you would say that's overkill for my mom to do, but that was a post to give you an idea of how immigrants feel right now.

Also I didn't say they were all evil. I said they were either ignorant, selfish, or evil. If a republican doesn't have questionable views on race issues, I don't consider that person evil, but I do think the core of the party has questionable views engrained in them which makes support for that core either ignorant or morally evil. I think there are plenty of republicans who don't realize how questionable the core of their party is from a morality stand point or do not even truly understand what racism is, which reeks of ignorance to me. Then there are those who totally buy into it (the alt-right), and I consider those people evil, which unfortunately is the Trump administration.

Trump still has a what? Like 65+% approval rate with the republican base? If his approval rate is that high even with all the xenophobic and racist stuff he has tried to pull, forgive me for calling out the party for being partly evil.

I don't think it is dramatic at all. I think not calling it for what it is, is the real issue. That's what allows republicans to go around fear mongering about immigrants and the like. We need to call it evil. It just is. We can't have a party in this country that tries to push these viewpoints as though it is a rightful political opinion.

I'm glad your mother has gotten her citizenship.

I'm going to put this in a little perspective. Every country in the world has immigration law. The US is a representative form of government where officials are elected to enact laws and policies for the country. If you think that is 'seriously ridiculously xenophobic' I suggest looking at other countries' systems. Go to Cuba or China and let me know where on the scale of ridiculous xenophobia you feel they fall on. Your calibration on these terms may need some examination.

My point is this is a suggestion that people back away from the ledge of dramatism a bit and allow others their rights to their representative government without slandering them, which is what you are doing and that quite frankly for most people is undeserved.

Yeah, you're right, technically- other countries, including our allies, have stricter immigration laws. Technically, wanting to have a tighter process domestically isn't Absolute Evil.

But the push for stricter immigration laws is absolutely tied to xenophobia - before Trump entered the race crowing about "a wall" (an idea he supposedly didn't like, but perpetuated once he saw how it made his crowds roar), no one really gave a damn about immigration. It wasn't on anyone's agenda. So why is it suddenly so "popular" an issue? Why is the idea of a "wall" so psychologically appealing? Why do Trump voters love hearing fairy tales about illegal immigrants hitting people with cars and bringing "drugs and crime and rapists"? Those things happen, but they're very very minor issues within the bigger picture - immigrants are *less* likely to commit crimes than citizens. It's about race and racism and "whiteness", and partially about an irrational demand for "safety", too, in relation to the intermittent, mostly minuscule threat of terrorism.

There's also a different case to be made about immigration, which is that our openness to it is a major economic advantage.

Bingo.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Meh, there are plenty of smart guys who post here. I am one of them and have multiple degrees from top schools, not the University of Facebook or Fox News State.

Yes, you must obviously pay great heed to the signal-to-noise ratio on twitter, just as we do on this board with countless basketball rumors. I mean, how many trades have broken on twitter? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, it's just a medium. If were are talking D3ADMIK3 or whatever his name was, yes, not credible on the Celts. But there are other accounts who have been veritable oracles, and in the bigger picture, little has happened that hasn't been rumored widely beforehand on twitter.

I am curious as to what YOU think is happening here, though. Do you get the severity of what is transpiring? At the very least, we are talking about his campaign manager and his former National Security Advisor going to prison (and it won't be the least). Manafort and Flynn are the equivalent of Karl Rove and Condi Rice for George W Bush, or Kissinger for Nixon in just Flynn's case.

This is extraordinary. People are wearing wires and cooperating with the FBI. You can read the source documents of these indictments yourself online (I recommend Twitter, if that's not too low-brow for you). We are talking money laundering from the Russians, bribes and secret meetings with hostile foreign governments. From an FBI investigation led by lifelong Republicans appointed by George Bush, and not Hillary or CNN.

So, I ask you, what do YOU think is happening here?

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

All good. I have a degree in History from Harvard with a special concentration in Government. There is no equivalent in our past of a major political candidate working with a hostile foreign government in exchange for giving them favorable policy. 100 years ago, these guys would have already been put to a firing squad.

As to Republicans, they are lost in the woods and have been for a while. From fighting tooth and nail against climate change to starting preemptive wars under false pretenses to supporting tax windfalls for the top 0.1% at the expense of everyone else to getting triggered over protests by clearly oppressed people, they are literally on the wrong side of every major challenge of our time. That's literally no hyperbole, just a statement of facts. There is literally not one redeeming aspect of the current GOP platform.

As a moderate who would prefer two strong parties, I say they are cordially invited to get their heads out of their asses and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Yeah unfortunately I agree - I try to empathize with conservatives, because I think civility and non-partisanship are important, and there are real problems with the left, including a growing hybrid, IMO, of cultural classism and moralism. But conservatives are stubbornly wrong about climate change (and I actually agree with a Reagan Republican, James Baker, who thinks we can't know for sure global warming is man-made and going to continue, but that the risk of being wrong is so high, we need to take cautionary measures) - they're stubbornly wrong about the discredited trickle-down b.s. - they've fought Obamacare against the will of the majority, which wants it "repaired" - they think the war on terror is a new Cold War and they've fought it badly, histrionically, hysterically, and at great moral and diplomatic cost - they've completely abandoned fiscal responsibility and a commitment to every civil liberty except gun ownership and free speech (so that Milo Yiannopoulos can show up on your local campus to say "trannies are gross" and make a bunch of shaggy bros giggle) - and they're clinging to a kind of wacksh*t evangelical Christianity which refuses to accommodate the 21st century in any way.

The reasonable Republicans - like James Baker, Bill Kristol, others - are now a minority voice within the party - GOP elites, with Fox News, Breitbart, Karl Rove, Roger Stone, etc., have completely captured the imagination of the base in a disgustingly manipulative and anti-civic way. This is the "Freedom Fries" party now - hot-headed, under informed, panicked, jingoistic, reactive and reactionary.

Imagine, like, if the hot-headed activists on college campuses who say hyperbolic things suddenly became the majority of the Democratic party, and elected a candidate who spoke directly to them all the time, shared their news sources, their ideology, their agenda. That's what it feels like as a progressive-ish independent political observer of the right. And to be fair, I think the same thing could happen to the left - I've seen at least one person I know talk about nominating Oprah.

But it's an absolute disaster - there's no reasonableness, just bitter stubbornness and grandstanding and posturing. It's not the conservatism I remember growing up, which, whatever its faults - including some racism and economic exploitation - at least seemed to have some principle and intelligence.

[theman]

Do you have a rebuttal?

No one is being imprisoned for protesting the anthem. How does disagreeing with what the players are doing violate their rights? The people stating their outrage have a first amendment right as well or did you forget about that. And if the owners want to bench players for acting like fools they certainly have that right as well.

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with what the players are doing, right?

There is nothing illegal with what they are doing.

If the coach were to bench them for doing so, that too would be legal.

Personally, I do not find the players kneeling endearing.

Do you think a coach has the right to bench a player for kneeling? Does a team have the right to cut a player for doing so?

Do fans have the right to stop watching games, to stop buying products the player is pushing?

[DarkAzcura]

No one is being imprisoned for protesting the anthem. How does disagreeing with what the players are doing violate their rights? The people stating their outrage have a first amendment right as well or did you forget about that. And if the owners want to bench players for acting like fools they certainly have that right as well.

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with what the players are doing, right?

There is nothing illegal with what they are doing.

If the coach were to bench them for doing so, that too would be legal.

Personally, I do not find the players kneeling endearing.

Do you think a coach has the right to bench a player for kneeling? Does a team have the right to cut a player for doing so?

They can do whatever they want, I guess, but the optics of it are completely terrible because it's a completely peaceful protest.

Also, why do people who hate the kneeling (for the apparent disrespect it shows to our military, which is such a weird jump in conclusion to me) ignore the fact that the kneeling was suggested from a member of the military?

[truth18]

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with what the players are doing, right?

There is nothing illegal with what they are doing.

If the coach were to bench them for doing so, that too would be legal.

Personally, I do not find the players kneeling endearing.

Do you think a coach has the right to bench a player for kneeling? Does a team have the right to cut a player for doing so?

They can do whatever they want, I guess, but the optics of it are completely terrible because it's a completely peaceful protest.

Also, why do people who hate the kneeling (for the apparent disrespect it shows to our military, which is such a weird jump in conclusion to me) ignore the fact that the kneeling was suggested from a member of the military?

A white man too.

[theman]

They can do whatever they want, I guess, but the optics of it are completely terrible because it's a completely peaceful protest.

Also, why do people who hate the kneeling (for the apparent disrespect it shows to our military, which is such a weird jump in conclusion to me) ignore the fact that the kneeling was suggested from a member of the military?

And one many find offensive.

[OFWGKTA]

They can do whatever they want, I guess, but the optics of it are completely terrible because it's a completely peaceful protest.

Also, why do people who hate the kneeling (for the apparent disrespect it shows to our military, which is such a weird jump in conclusion to me) ignore the fact that the kneeling was suggested from a member of the military?

And one many find offensive.

Many people don't find it offensive. Why should the people that do get their way? Is one person's opinion worth more than another's?

[CavemanDoctor]

No one is being imprisoned for protesting the anthem. How does disagreeing with what the players are doing violate their rights? The people stating their outrage have a first amendment right as well or did you forget about that. And if the owners want to bench players for acting like fools they certainly have that right as well.

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with what the players are doing, right?

There is nothing illegal with what they are doing.

If the coach were to bench them for doing so, that too would be legal.

Personally, I do not find the players kneeling endearing.

Do you think a coach has the right to bench a player for kneeling? Does a team have the right to cut a player for doing so?

Do fans have the right to stop watching games, to stop buying products the player is pushing?

What is so offensive to you about the kneeling? I have yet to hear a reasonable answer to this.

[Andrew McCeltic]

There is nothing illegal with what they are doing.

If the coach were to bench them for doing so, that too would be legal.

Personally, I do not find the players kneeling endearing.

Do you think a coach has the right to bench a player for kneeling? Does a team have the right to cut a player for doing so?

They can do whatever they want, I guess, but the optics of it are completely terrible because it's a completely peaceful protest.

Also, why do people who hate the kneeling (for the apparent disrespect it shows to our military, which is such a weird jump in conclusion to me) ignore the fact that the kneeling was suggested from a member of the military?

A white man too.

Support our troops!!!

I would think some members of the military would be more upset about a loud mouthed draft dodger like Trump wrapping himself in the flag to deflect criticism..

[Captain_Caveman]

Politics is, was and will always be full of grift and corruption.

Rove (a truly horrible person that helped start a war that killed untold thousands) and Rice were key admin figures for 8 years, these other guys were around for a few months and then **** canned.

What I think is happening is you are being overly dramatic honestly.

All good. I have a degree in History from Harvard with a special concentration in Government. There is no equivalent in our past of a major political candidate working with a hostile foreign government in exchange for giving them favorable policy. 100 years ago, these guys would have already been put to a firing squad.

As to Republicans, they are lost in the woods and have been for a while. From fighting tooth and nail against climate change to starting preemptive wars under false pretenses to supporting tax windfalls for the top 0.1% at the expense of everyone else to getting triggered over protests by clearly oppressed people, they are literally on the wrong side of every major challenge of our time. That's literally no hyperbole, just a statement of facts. There is literally not one redeeming aspect of the current GOP platform.

As a moderate who would prefer two strong parties, I say they are cordially invited to get their heads out of their asses and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Yes there is. Manafort quite literally was working with the Podestas on the activity which brought some of his charges. They are all guilty of the same thing, and frankly it's the same bull that has been going on forever. Wikileaks themselves released documents showing US interference in 81 foreign elections, and if you think the opposite hasn't been happening here I consider that, with your background, willfully naive and/or overly dramatic. This **** is and has always happened.

Not going to defend the history of the CIA here, but suffice to say, your post is unabashed apologism for treason.

Trump and the GOP willfully collaborated with a hostile foreign government to interfere in our election in return for favorable policy.

Again, there is no precedent for this in our history.

Again, it is by far the biggest scandal in our nation's history.

Dozens of people are going to prison for this, and they should. Only question here is exactly how far it goes. Either way, the Trump Administration is going to be mortally wounded.

[Curmudgeon]

Dozens of people are going to prison for this, and they should. Only question here is exactly how far it goes. Either way, the Trump Administration is going to be mortally wounded.

Hope you are right. Aside from the obvious names (e.g. Flynn, Kushner), I hope Mueller doesn't ignore Wilbur Ross, the snake who ran the bank in Cyprus that laundered all the money.

But more than anything I wish for Democratic control of the house and senate after November, 2018. Even if Trump is impeached or resigns, Pence will be just as bad, and his fangs have to be pulled.

[Captain_Caveman]

Dozens of people are going to prison for this, and they should. Only question here is exactly how far it goes. Either way, the Trump Administration is going to be mortally wounded.

Hope you are right. Aside from the obvious names (e.g. Flynn, Kushner), I hope Mueller doesn't ignore Wilbur Ross, the snake who ran the bank in Cyprus that laundered all the money.

But more than anything I wish for Democratic control of the house and senate after November, 2018. Even if Trump is impeached or resigns, Pence will be just as bad, and his fangs have to be pulled.

The Cyprus bank is extensively listed in the Manafort indictment.

[theman]

They can do whatever they want, I guess, but the optics of it are completely terrible because it's a completely peaceful protest.

Also, why do people who hate the kneeling (for the apparent disrespect it shows to our military, which is such a weird jump in conclusion to me) ignore the fact that the kneeling was suggested from a member of the military?

And one many find offensive.

Many people don't find it offensive. Why should the people that do get their way? Is one person's opinion worth more than another's?

I am just going by what I have learned from my left leaning friends and that is if anyone is offended it must be stopped. Isn't that why the NFL took away the Washington Redskin's copyright? Isn't that why the confederate flag was removed from the North Carolina capital building? Isn't that why Duck Dynasty was cancelled? Isn't that why Curt Schilling was fired from ESPN?

It seems to me that some people's opinions are worth more than others.

[DarkAzcura]

And one many find offensive.

Many people don't find it offensive. Why should the people that do get their way? Is one person's opinion worth more than another's?

I am just going by what I have learned from my left leaning friends and that is if anyone is offended it must be stopped. Isn't that why the NFL took away the Washington Redskin's copyright? Isn't that why the confederate flag was removed from the North Carolina capital building? Isn't that why Duck Dynasty was cancelled? Isn't that why Curt Schilling was fired from ESPN?

It seems to me that some people's opinions are worth more than others.

I don't really mind people with racist views having their opinion worth less than those without racist views.

Your comparison is such a false equivalency. If you can't see the difference between being offended by a completely peaceful protest about police brutality vs a person being offended by a symbol of slavery, I don't know what to tell you.

This isn't (or shouldn't be) left vs right. This is (or should be) simple morality, but the right likes to turn it into 'left leaning views.' This is the kind of stuff everyone should agree on regardless of political affiliation, the fact that Republicans actually see merit in these false equivalencies is scary as hell.