Markelle Fultz Discussion II

[Gsraider]

My lord. Regardless of how good anyone looks early on, isn't generally a rule of thumb that you wait at least 2-3 years to really evaluate a draft class? At this point, does anyone honestly know how good Tatum, Jackson, etc. will be? There is also such thing as a sophomore slump and a rookie wall. Meanwhile, anyone that suggests that something wasn't wrong with Fultz (physically, mentally or both) obviously didn't see him play in college or in the Summer League. So, why not wait for him to come back in whatever capacity he comes back in and then start to formulate opinions on him. Next, go through the year and see. There is a reason why so many draft scouts and analysts had Fultz as the top guy. They could be wrong obviously, but it's almost comical that Fultz is already looked at as the next A. Bennett by some at worst and below the guys taken immediately behind him in general. How on earth did any of this group live through "The Process" and now have no patience at all?

[ProcessDoctor]

Fox would be great in transition w/ Simmons
Frank would help immensely with his stellar defense and passing
DSJ would be the worst fit but he’s so athletic that if he gets his shot right he will be a star.

So each player has 1-2 unique qualities, and that makes them better for the sixers than Fultz?

Edit: This is like the ppl saying Ingram > Simmons for us because Ingram had a better jumpshot. Does that matter if he's an inferior player?

So far we know Fultz has a broken shot (we don’t know if it will be fixed)
Fultz with no jumper is worse than all of those players. He was a better “fit”only because of his shot which is broken until proven fixed in my view

Yea, let's assume 2 whole weeks of "broken shot" Fultz playing with a shoulder injury will be permanent. Forget all the games he played before that.

For your Celtics sake, you better hope your view is true.

[Highfive]

Point of interest:

While watching sixer highlights of the Atlanta game. There was one instance where the camera panned to the bench where the players were jumping up and cheering. Among them was Markelle wearing a suit. He jumped to his feet and threw both arms over his head (touchdown style). He did it easily and not like someone with a serious shoulder problem. He just kept smiling. There was no grimace... as in "Oh crap, why did I just do that"!

He had no trouble getting that right hand way over his head. Unless there is something else going on, I think we should see him back on the floor sooner than later.

[Gsraider]

So far we know Fultz has a broken shot (we don’t know if it will be fixed)
Fultz with no jumper is worse than all of those players. He was a better “fit”only because of his shot which is broken until proven fixed in my view

I would agree with this and at least it's rational. If Fultz somehow forgot how to shoot overnight (or became unwilling to), that's a problem. If Fultz got all of the game tapes of Shaq and decided that this was the form he wanted to emulate, then it's even worse. Whatever the case, if Fultz winds up being the player we saw through the first few games, then it would have been stupid to pick him at #3, let alone give up another valuable pick to get him. If however, whatever the hell is wrong with Fultz goes away and he comes back like the player we all saw as recently as July, I'm ready to take my chances with what was given up to get him. That guy was pretty damn good and fit a huge need for this team. I would have taken that guy over Tatum all day long.

[Baller1234a]

So each player has 1-2 unique qualities, and that makes them better for the sixers than Fultz?

Edit: This is like the ppl saying Ingram > Simmons for us because Ingram had a better jumpshot. Does that matter if he's an inferior player?

So far we know Fultz has a broken shot (we don’t know if it will be fixed)
Fultz with no jumper is worse than all of those players. He was a better “fit”only because of his shot which is broken until proven fixed in my view

Yea, let's assume 2 whole weeks of "broken shot" Fultz playing with a shoulder injury will be permanent. Forget all the games he played before that.

For your Celtics sake, you better hope your view is true.

First of all he changed his shot before injury at least according to your own FO
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/
http://www.businessinsider.com/markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-shooting-motion-2017-10

So this might be permanent..... he also has a history of changing his shooting form a lot.

Also don’t worry about the Celtics. We got the better prospect and a great pick.

[Baller1234a]

double post

[Gsraider]

Point of interest:

While watching sixer highlights of the Atlanta game. There was one instance where the camera panned to the bench where the players were jumping up and cheering. Among them was Markelle wearing a suit. He jumped to his feet and threw both arms over his head (touchdown style). He did it easily and not like someone with a serious shoulder problem. He just kept smiling. There was no grimace... as in "Oh crap, why did I just do that"!

He had no trouble getting that right hand way over his head. Unless there is something else going on, I think we should see him back on the floor sooner than later.

That could be something or it could be the shooting motion itself that causes discomfort or limits his range of motion. I used an analogy in a recent post about having tendinitis in my elbow when I was playing QB. The tendinitis didn't effect anything that I wanted to do and didn't hurt in general. It only really hurt when I tried to throw a football. Several weeks of ice/heat and rest and it was all gone. Hopefully, that's similar to what Fultz needs.

[sixerhp3]

Point of interest:

While watching sixer highlights of the Atlanta game. There was one instance where the camera panned to the bench where the players were jumping up and cheering. Among them was Markelle wearing a suit. He jumped to his feet and threw both arms over his head (touchdown style). He did it easily and not like someone with a serious shoulder problem. He just kept smiling. There was no grimace... as in "Oh crap, why did I just do that"!

He had no trouble getting that right hand way over his head. Unless there is something else going on, I think we should see him back on the floor sooner than later.

"scapular muscle imbalance" that leads to pain is very likely to be caused (secondarily) by shoulder impingement. What this means is that the lack of balance between rotator cuff muscles can cause abnormal shoulder motion and stresses, leading to entrapment and irritation of the rotator cuff tendons. This condition deals with inflammation (hence why he got a cortisone shot) and can vary in pain levels depending on how irritated the tendons are so function in the shoulder can vary as well. Pain is usually described as a "painful arc" that occurs during 60-120 degrees of shoulder flexion. Evidence shows that Physical therapy is just as effective, if not more, than surgery in recovery and with conservative treatment for normal patients this isn't a serious condition. To give this some sort of credibility I am currently in a doctorate program for physical therapy and I'm currently learning about the shoulder. Hope this helps give people an idea of what might be going on.

[JojoSlimbiid]

So far we know Fultz has a broken shot (we don’t know if it will be fixed)
Fultz with no jumper is worse than all of those players. He was a better “fit”only because of his shot which is broken until proven fixed in my view

Yea, let's assume 2 whole weeks of "broken shot" Fultz playing with a shoulder injury will be permanent. Forget all the games he played before that.

For your Celtics sake, you better hope your view is true.

First of all he changed his shot before injury at least according to your own FO
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/
http://www.businessinsider.com/markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-shooting-motion-2017-10

So this might be permanent..... he also has a history of changing his shooting form a lot.

Also don’t worry about the Celtics. We got the better prospect and a great pick.

You better hope it's permanent. Why are you here anyway? Shouldn't you be enjoying your first round pick? It's hilarious the nervousness Celtics fans have about that trade. They have like a 30 page thread checking on any sort of tweet or news about Fultz. Let's hope things stay the same for your sanity. You got the better prospect and a great pick nice go enjoy that. A troll like this in the Lakers forum? Slava would of tossed him in the bushes months ago.

[ProcessDoctor]

So far we know Fultz has a broken shot (we don’t know if it will be fixed)
Fultz with no jumper is worse than all of those players. He was a better “fit”only because of his shot which is broken until proven fixed in my view

Yea, let's assume 2 whole weeks of "broken shot" Fultz playing with a shoulder injury will be permanent. Forget all the games he played before that.

For your Celtics sake, you better hope your view is true.

First of all he changed his shot before injury at least according to your own FO
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/
http://www.businessinsider.com/markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-shooting-motion-2017-10

So this might be permanent..... he also has a history of changing his shooting form a lot.

Also don’t worry about the Celtics. We got the better prospect and a great pick.

Fultz himself said he changed his shot due to the pain. Sixers fans don't even trust our FO, so why should you or anyone else? Oh that's right, only when the info is convenient enough to try and put Fultz down to make Celtics fans feel secure about their team and the trade.
http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/markelle-fultz-says-hes-changed-free-throw-shooting-shoulder-injury/#dBFusgmYG5boF0oS.97

And you're arguing against yourself here...on one hand, you say it might be permanent, but on the other you say he changes his shot a lot. So which is it? He was able to change his shot in the past, but now because it's broken, he's permanently like this?

[Eyeamok]

Point of interest:

While watching sixer highlights of the Atlanta game. There was one instance where the camera panned to the bench where the players were jumping up and cheering. Among them was Markelle wearing a suit. He jumped to his feet and threw both arms over his head (touchdown style). He did it easily and not like someone with a serious shoulder problem. He just kept smiling. There was no grimace... as in "Oh crap, why did I just do that"!

He had no trouble getting that right hand way over his head. Unless there is something else going on, I think we should see him back on the floor sooner than later.

You make a valid point. But the question is can he raise those arms above his head several times in a game? If not sit him for the entire season.

[Baller1234a]

Yea, let's assume 2 whole weeks of "broken shot" Fultz playing with a shoulder injury will be permanent. Forget all the games he played before that.

For your Celtics sake, you better hope your view is true.

First of all he changed his shot before injury at least according to your own FO
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/
http://www.businessinsider.com/markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-shooting-motion-2017-10

So this might be permanent..... he also has a history of changing his shooting form a lot.

Also don’t worry about the Celtics. We got the better prospect and a great pick.

Fultz himself said he changed his shot due to the pain. Sixers fans don't even trust our FO, so why should you or anyone else?
http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/markelle-fultz-says-hes-changed-free-throw-shooting-shoulder-injury/#dBFusgmYG5boF0oS.97

And you're arguing against yourself here...on one hand, you say it might be permanent, but on the other you say he changes his shot a lot. So which is it? He was able to change his shot in the past, but now because it's broken, he's permanently like this?

First he changes his form a lot.
In between high school and college he changes his shot which works and he becomes a way better prospect due to his new shooting.
Then gets picked 1st and weirdly changes his form (stories out there that he is a perfectionist)
This messes up his shoulder because it is a new way for the muscle/shoulder to move leading to injury.
So either
A He proves me wrong by going back to his old form which goes against the history of changing his shot a lot OR
B Realizes this doesn’t work and has to remake his form AGAIN which will be unpredictabile

[Gsraider]

"scapular muscle imbalance" that leads to pain is very likely to be caused (secondarily) by shoulder impingement. What this means is that the lack of balance between rotator cuff muscles can cause abnormal shoulder motion and stresses, leading to entrapment and irritation of the rotator cuff tendons. This condition deals with inflammation (hence why he got a cortisone shot) and can vary in pain levels depending on how irritated the tendons are so function in the shoulder can vary as well. Pain is usually described as a "painful arc" that occurs during 60-120 degrees of shoulder flexion. Evidence shows that Physical therapy is just as effective, if not more, than surgery in recovery and with conservative treatment for normal patients this isn't a serious condition. To give this some sort of credibility I am currently in a doctorate program for physical therapy and I'm currently learning about the shoulder. Hope this helps give people an idea of what might be going on.

Thank you. Hopefully, this is exactly what's going on and all he needs is some rest. In the end, I just find it mind boggling that some people think he looked even remotely like what they expected based on his play at UW and the Summer League. He may still be a bust mind you, but I'd at least like to see the guy we thought BC picked. I don't think we have yet and to suggest something wasn't wrong is to suggest that the first 3 games was the first time you've ever seen him play.

[Lovetron Joe]

First of all he changed his shot before injury at least according to your own FO
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/
http://www.businessinsider.com/markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-shooting-motion-2017-10

So this might be permanent..... he also has a history of changing his shooting form a lot.

Also don’t worry about the Celtics. We got the better prospect and a great pick.

Fultz himself said he changed his shot due to the pain. Sixers fans don't even trust our FO, so why should you or anyone else?
http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/markelle-fultz-says-hes-changed-free-throw-shooting-shoulder-injury/#dBFusgmYG5boF0oS.97

And you're arguing against yourself here...on one hand, you say it might be permanent, but on the other you say he changes his shot a lot. So which is it? He was able to change his shot in the past, but now because it's broken, he's permanently like this?

First he changes his form a lot.
In between high school and college he changes his shot which works and he becomes a way better prospect due to his new shooting.
Then gets picked 1st and weirdly changes his form (stories out there that he is a perfectionist)
This messes up his shoulder because it is a new way for the muscle/shoulder to move leading to injury.
So either
A He proves me wrong by going back to his old form which goes against the history of changing his shot a lot OR
B Realizes this doesn’t work and has to remake his form AGAIN which will be unpredictabile

Trolling much?

[LloydFree]

.

And for the record, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE was saying Tatum was going to be better than Fultz. Even now, the jury is still out on who the better player will be since the Fultz we saw at Wash hasn't played a single game yet.

Me. I was saying Tatum would be better than Fultz. I said that since December of last year and haven't changed my position since.

I'd take Ayton over Fultz and Tatum... and since our GM uses DX to do his college scouting, while he scours Europe, the Celtics have a chance to get him and have Tatum as a bonus.

[Negrodamus]

.

And for the record, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE was saying Tatum was going to be better than Fultz. Even now, the jury is still out on who the better player will be since the Fultz we saw at Wash hasn't played a single game yet.

Me. I was saying Tatum would be better than Fultz. I said that since December of last year and haven't changed my position since.

I'd take Ayton over Fultz and Tatum... and since our GM uses DX to do his college scouting, while he scours Europe, the Celtics have a chance to get him and have Tatum as a bonus.

Yea, we could have had that if we stayed at 3. I'm not disagreeing. I wouldn't have traded up for anyone in this draft.

[Unbreakable99]

I know you might be trolling/really don't like Fultz for whatever reason, but I wanna try and understand where you're coming from. Which player(s) draft in the top 10 (besides maybe Tatum) is really standing out to you right now?

Stealing Lloyd's thunder: us draft junkies were all pretty clear that DSJ, Isaac, Jackson, Ball, Mitchell, et al each had a good chance of being better than all the guys drafted before them. It's not about what numbers they've put up so far, it's about their tools ad long term success in the league. Fultz has some big question marks about speed of his game--it was too slow in college and speeding up is tough--and explosiveness, and the fact that he was already taking a lot of difficult shots in the NCAA. I happened to like his skills and size enough to put him towards the top of my board, and his fit with us put him up to #1--but he was always a shaky #1 and I thought we got played pretty hard by the Celtics.

(Think of it like this: if Fultz has a 40% chance of becoming really really good, while guys like Tatum and DSJ had like a 35% chance--why give up another probably equivalent pick to move up that 5%?)

So are you suggesting that instead of staying in top 3, we should have traded down to 5ish to select a stretch-four (i.e. Isaac) or all the way down to 10 to select DSJ ( at 35% chance of becoming really good...have you seen him play this season?) or Mitchell? Who in their right mind passes up a chance on selecting the unanimous #1 prospect to trade all the way down to #10-12 in order to select Mitchell? Can you name a single GM in the history of the NBA who would do something that insane?

Also, there seems to be some revisions going on here...first, it was Ball who had a better chance of being good than Fultz. Now, you dropped his name from your list of prospects you originally said would be as good or better than Fultz, and now it's just Tatum and DSJ. I'm sure once we see a few more games of DSJ his name will be off that list you "junkies" compiled.

And for the record, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE was saying Tatum was going to be better than Fultz. Even now, the jury is still out on who the better player will be since the Fultz we saw at Wash hasn't played a single game yet.

Fultz was such the unanimous number one pick that Ainge didn’t even want him and would have taken Tatum at number one if he didn’t find a sucker to trade the pick.

[Unbreakable99]

Me. I was saying Tatum would be better than Fultz. I said that since December of last year and haven't changed my position since.

I'd take Ayton over Fultz and Tatum... and since our GM uses DX to do his college scouting, while he scours Europe, the Celtics have a chance to get him and have Tatum as a bonus.

Yea, we could have had that if we stayed at 3. I'm not disagreeing. I wouldn't have traded up for anyone in this draft.

Our GM is a buffoon. I’m going to cringe if I see Ayton wearing Celtic green. BC did this. That dummy should have stayed at 3. Fultz probably is there at 3 anyway. When Fultz is healthy folks will be out of excuses for reasons why he isn’t as good as Tatum or Fox or DSJ or Ball or others. That’s why I want him to shoot right. Everyone will be out of excuses for this kid and see he the buffoon GM botched this draft.

[BullyKing]

I'd take Ayton over Fultz and Tatum... and since our GM uses DX to do his college scouting, while he scours Europe, the Celtics have a chance to get him and have Tatum as a bonus.

Yea, we could have had that if we stayed at 3. I'm not disagreeing. I wouldn't have traded up for anyone in this draft.

Our GM is a buffoon. I’m going to cringe if I see Ayton wearing Celtic green. BC did this. That dummy should have stayed at 3. Fultz probably is there at 3 anyway. When Fultz is healthy folks will be out of excuses for reasons why he isn’t as good as Tatum or Fox or DSJ or Ball or others. That’s why I want him to shoot right. Everyone will be out of excuses for this kid and see he the buffoon GM botched this draft.

So you want Fultz to be healthy AND fail so you can say you were right. I mean I guess everyone can root for whatever they want but with that in mind, can you maybe stop posting 30 times a day that you're right until that point?

[JojoSlimbiid]

When Fultz shows why he's the best player in the draft the rodents will just say it's Simmons and Embiid making him look good. Not sure why people are still taking some of these posters seriously...I mean dude included Ball lol. Fultz with one arm is as good as Ball with two.

Stop