The Bucks player personnel issues under LED

HKPackFan · Post #101 » by **HKPackFan** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 10:52 am

TroyD92 wrote:How many games in row does it take before Kidd is fired? Would going winless on this road trip do it?

Nope. Would need to go maybe November and December as a bottom 5 team to get him on the hot seat.

RiotPunch · Post #102 » by **RiotPunch** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 12:22 pm

If Edens should ever flex his executive decision maker muscle again, it should be to fire Jason Kidd.

KidA24 · Post #103 » by **KidA24** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 1:18 pm

The biggest whiff that this team has done, was going into the biggest sellers market ever (the huge cap spike year) and deciding they absolutely needed to be buyers.

Look at how much more talented players signed for the next season. How many teams are looking to dump salary this year (including the Bucks now).

Cap space is an asset, the Milwaukee Bucks, despite getting a good player and a first round pick for cap in the Jared Dudley deal, have yet to realize this.

The second terrible thing? Consistently not using restricted free agency to their advantage.

I can't truly care about the individual moves and nitpick them apart, any team can do that, it's the overall lack of a long term ("Own the Future" -- Trade and sell draft picks off, spend on mediocre free agents) strategy and Herb Kohl-esque mentality of "Gotta spend it, gotta fix last years problem immediately, get to the playoffs," which is going to cause Giannis to seriously consider leaving in 3 short years.

Post #104 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 5:56 pm

KidA24 wrote: it's the overall lack of a long term ("Own the Future" -- Trade and sell draft picks off, spend on mediocre free agents) strategy

Yep. Starting with the 2015 offseason they morphed into the Herb Kohl straddle the fence routine where they try to have youth and veterans at the same time. It doesn't work.

They pitch good vets like ZaZa, Dudley, Ersan overboard but rather than bringing in draft picks or using the cap space to absorb bad contracts for assets, they instead blow assets and cash on Greivis Vasquez and Monroe who were always more win now than anything.

Chuck Diesel · Post #105 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 6:10 pm

I'm so tired of hearing about how Jason Kidd "Thinks the game at another level." Like, dude actively targeted Michael Carter Williams & Grevis Vasquez as his point guards.

BucksStatsGuy · Post #106 » by **BucksStatsGuy** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 8:18 pm

I worry about the decision when it comes down to "Do we fire the guy we pay 500k a year to......or the guy who we still will owe 12 million to in 18-19 and 19-20. Doesn't even matter if whatever happens isn't Jon's fault, which it most likely wouldn't be. That is a staggering number to swallow when you are an owner, and absolutely would come into play

bizarro · Post #107 » by **bizarro** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 8:22 pm

BucksStatsGuy wrote:I worry about the decision when it comes down to "Do we fire the guy we pay 500k a year to......or the guy who we still will owe 12 million to in 18-19 and 19-20. Doesn't even matter if whatever happens isn't Jon's fault, which it most likely wouldn't be. That is a staggering number to swallow when you are an owner, and absolutely would come into play

Well, ****. Can't they negotiate a Buy-Out - or is there no such clause. Maybe, just maybe, they should afford themselves some time for reflection on how they've skimped salary on equally important facets of the organization and over-invested in an entirely unproven coaching commodity for the sake of familiarity outside the organization. It's just a failed failed endeavor from the start. The only success, as far as I see it, was the initial 2nd rd draft pick investment in the Kidd deal was aligned with their general philosophy of selling off multiple NG'd low-risk assets.

BucksStatsGuy · Post #108 » by **BucksStatsGuy** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 8:23 pm

bizarro wrote:
BucksStatsGuy wrote:I worry about the decision when it comes down to "Do we fire the guy we pay 500k a year to......or the guy who we still will owe 12 million to in 18-19 and 19-20. Doesn't even matter if whatever happens isn't Jon's fault, which it most likely wouldn't be. That is a staggering number to swallow when you are an owner, and absolutely would come into play

Well, ****. Can't they negotiate a Buy-Out - or is there no such clause. Maybe, just maybe, they should afford themselves some time for reflection on how they've skimped salary on equally important facets of the organization and over-invested in an entirely unproven coaching commodity for the sake of familiarity outside the organization. It's just a failed failed endeavor from the start. The only success, as far as I see it, was the initial 2nd rd draft pick investment in the Kidd deal was aligned with their general philosophy of selling off multiple NG'd low-risk assets.

Have no idea about the buy-out. And the 12 million just comes from the Stein reports (I obviously am unfamiliar to any of the deets). I imagine they could figure out a way, hah

Post #109 » by **humanrefutation** » Fri Nov 3, 2017 8:24 pm

BucksStatsGuy wrote:I worry about the decision when it comes down to "Do we fire the guy we pay 500k a year to......or the guy who we still will owe 12 million to in 18-19 and 19-20. Doesn't even matter if whatever happens isn't Jon's fault, which it most likely wouldn't be. That is a staggering number to swallow when you are an owner, and absolutely would come into play

They're effectively swallowing numbers much larger than that with Telly, Delly, Plumlee, and Henson - four contracts that they did not have to hand out and are currently impacting our cap and roster flexibility in meaningful ways. That doesn't even address Monroe and Snell - two more big contracts that were signed off on under their watch with questionable results.

You can't decide that you're going to pinch pennies on your head coach but spend gobs of money on crap like that. Either you're in it to win it or you're not.

StickeeFingaz · Post #110 » by **StickeeFingaz** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 4:17 am

EDIT: Still a young team, gotta wait and see.

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FlagsFlyForever · Post #111 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 8:03 am

Out of 54 total qualified lineups, the Bucks starting five is the second best 5-man unit in the NBA this season (min. 30 minutes played together). The core is solid but we have absolutely nothing on the bench. A lot of people liked the Mirza and Delly signings when they happened but they have not worked out and they are eating into our ability to sign useful bench players.

leroyjw10 · Post #112 » by **leroyjw10** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 1:18 pm

ElPeregrino wrote:Out of 54 total qualified lineups, the Bucks starting five is the second best 5-man unit in the NBA this season (min. 30 minutes played together). The core is solid but we have absolutely nothing on the bench. A lot of people liked the Mirza and Delly signings when they happened but they have not worked out and they are eating into our ability to sign useful bench players.

Theoretically, the Bucks bench should be much better once both Moose and Jabari are back, but until then this bench is possibly the worst in the league. If the Bucks were able to get Bledsoe, than the roughly 30 minutes a night that currently go to Delly/Vaughn/Liggins/Terry get reallocated to Brogdon, which is another significant upgrade. A bench unit led by Brogdon, Jabari and Moose sounds pretty good, though unlikely.

Chuck Diesel · Post #113 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 8:49 pm

Imagine if we signed Bizmack Biyombo & Dedmon to the paltry $3 million per deals they got in 2015 & 16 instead of giving $96 million to John Henson & Miles Plumlee. Lol. Deals like that are a huge part of why the Spurs & Raptors are superior organizations to the Bucks.

Post #114 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 8:51 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:Imagine if we signed Bizmack Biyombo & Dedmon to the paltry $3 million per deals they got in 2015 & 16 instead of giving $96 million to John Henson & Miles Plumlee. Lol. Deals like that are a huge part of why the Spurs & Raptors are superior organizations to the Bucks.

We've got a three year pattern of really derp personnel moves.

Chuck Diesel · Post #115 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 8:54 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:Imagine if we signed Bizmack Biyombo & Dedmon to the paltry $3 million per deals they got in 2015 & 16 instead of giving $96 million to John Henson & Miles Plumlee. Lol. Deals like that are a huge part of why the Spurs & Raptors are superior organizations to the Bucks.

We've got a three year pattern of really derp personnel moves.

I've always been super curious about our pro personnel scouts. I think it was the same dudes ( Gilartin, Roth?) for a large portion of the Herb Kohl era & they have a new crew this year. It just feels like they employ people who don't actually watch games.

Aaron It Out · Post #116 » by **Aaron It Out** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 9:04 pm

StickeeFingaz wrote:

EDIT: Still a young team, gotta wait and see.

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10th youngest team in the East!

Chuck Diesel · Post #117 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 9:08 pm

The concerted effort this organization makes to lower expectations when we lose is really amazing. Carried through two ownership groups.

Prince12 · Post #118 » by **Prince12** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 9:16 pm

The Edens quote about the difference between us and Philly is results is really unfortunate. Still think we probably end up with a better record then them this season but oh so silly.

Chuck Diesel · Post #119 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 9:25 pm

Prince12 wrote:The Edens quote about the difference between us and Philly is results is really unfortunate. Still think we probably end up with a better record then them this season but oh so silly.

"Some people like to talk about the 'the process', we like to talk about $165 million for Miles Plumlee, John Henson, Matthew Dellavedova & Mirza Teletovic."

"Some people like to talk about the 'the process', we like to talk about Rashad Vaughn, Thon Maker & DJ Wilson."

"Some people like to talk about 'the process", we like to talk about stretching the final year of Spencer Hawes's contract to avoid the luxury tax."

coolhandluke121 · Post #120 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sat Nov 4, 2017 9:33 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:
Prince12 wrote:The Edens quote about the difference between us and Philly is results is really unfortunate. Still think we probably end up with a better record then them this season but oh so silly.

"Some people like to talk about the 'the process', we like to talk about $165 million for Miles Plumlee, John Henson, Matthew Dellavedova & Mirza Teletovic."

They have too much dignity to pass up a chance to sign guys like them.