Markelle Fultz Discussion II

[Arsenal]

In the early going the ONLY other guy from this class who looks like a big time stud in the making is Jayson Tatum.

Jackson, Smith, Fox, and especially Ball have done NOTHING to impress thus far. I'd MUCH rather have an injured Fultz than any of those guys, who all look mediocre at best thus far.

[GabeCerebro]

Tatum wouldn't be starting on this team . It seriously is ridiculous to even continue mentioning him. I'm still taking Fultz 10 out of 10 times.

[KrazySixersD]

man DSJ looking great again tonight -_-

[Unbreakable99]

That's fair, although there were a lot of people out there that thought Fultz was the #1 overall prospect. In fact, most did. Further, when you expand your scope to include national media that has no skin in the game or an axe to grind, most thought the trade was a pretty good one for Philly. Thus, while you could very well be correct, BC was not alone in his evaluation of Fultz, nor were many blasting him for what he gave to move up and get him. In fact, I think one of those people was our very own Derek Bodner if memory serves and he has a pretty solid track record when it comes to evaluation if memory serves.

Nonetheless, we are where we are right now and all we can do is hope that BC was on to something.

Derek Bodner is the same guy who had Jahlil Okafor rated higher than Porzingis on his final draft board and Hezonja as a top 5 pick... He don't know anymore than you or me. I'd rather follow Negrodamus or Kobble...

The National media doesnt do any homework with these prospects. They look at the internet lists, and take them as the gospel. They do the same thing in Football with Mel Kiper. Nerds like us, spend more time watching the games. The media will always say the team that picked the #1 player on a list, did well...

You think these east coast writers were up at at midnight watching Kadeem Allen put Fultz on lock-down? I guarantee, any one that watched Fultz against any good players (Gonzaga, Oregon, Arizona, UCLA) knows Colangelo messed up.

So you and Unbreakable know more than an entire scouting department and a seasoned GM in the NBA now? Awesome. Tell me who is going to be the next five all stars in upcoming drafts please!

I don’t know more than anyone else. I’m wrong a lot. I’ll be wrong a lot more. I do value other people’s opinions though. Negrodamus and Kobblehead and LloydFree and Sixerscan and Corey Gallagher and Hartford Whalers and many others provide good insight. I don’t take people in the media who write or talk about it more serious than those guys on this board. I listen to all and I trust myself as well.

[Unbreakable99]

Come on Fultz. Get healthy. If we can get another good scorer we will Be that’s much tougher.

[Sasashi]

man DSJ looking great again tonight -_-

2-12 , 5 points, 3 asst, 3 TO, -21

Lloydfree's top 3 players:

1) Ball
2) Jackson
3) Dennis Smith Jr

but of course all he wants to discuss is Fultz' not playing well on one arm. When you ask him about Ball, POOF....gone from the scene.

Don't act like a "know it all " when you're not. If you can get on a high horse, be present when things aren't looking so good.
For all we know, Ball could very WELL be the best player in the 2017 draft. After all, all these guys have played less than 10 games. But don't act high and mighty, condescending towards other posters, and when your picks don't look so hot, you pull a disappearing act.

To quote Rocky: Cowards do that and that ain't you.....well I could be wrong there... but you get the jist

[LloydFree]

man DSJ looking great again tonight -_-

2-12 , 5 points, 3 asst, 3 TO, -21

Lloydfree's top 3 players:

1) Ball
2) Jackson
3) Dennis Smith Jr

but of course all he wants to discuss is Fultz' not playing well on one arm. When you ask him about Ball, POOF....gone from the scene.

Where have I gone? I said Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson are both better prospects than Fultz, before the draft, and I said it again today. They are both better basketball players and better prospects than Fultz... What.

[Ericb5]

man DSJ looking great again tonight -_-

2-12 , 5 points, 3 asst, 3 TO, -21

Lloydfree's top 3 players:

1) Ball
2) Jackson
3) Dennis Smith Jr

but of course all he wants to discuss is Fultz' not playing well on one arm. When you ask him about Ball, POOF....gone from the scene.

Where have I gone? I said Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson are both better prospects than Fultz, before the draft, and I said it again today. They are both better basketball players and better prospects than Fultz... What.

I believe that they are too, although marginally, but Fultz is a better fit for us. He is a better shooter, and is capable of getting his own shot better than either of those guys.

I wish that you would stop being a broken record on this. Give Fultz a chance before you label him him a bad pick.

You just keep climbing farther and farther out on a limb and it is completely unnecessary. Nothing has changed between the draft and today to change the equation so why do you need to beat us over the head with your opinion. It is gratuitous.

You will either be right or wrong, but everyone on this board knows your opinion by now.


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[76ciology]

Come on Fultz. Get healthy. If we can get another good scorer we will Be that’s much tougher.

And we need him against the Lakers. Good game for him to drop 30

[spikeslovechild]

I like Josh Jackson a lot but Fultz was a better fit Ball is trash.

[ivysixer2000]

I look at it a bit differently. I'm not concerned with who Ainge would have taken at #1. (I have my ideas about who he wanted and it wasn't Fultz). I'm not even concerned with who Ainge actually picked. I'm only concerned with the competence of our GM. Personally, I don't understand how any competent NBA person watched these players and concluded Fultz was the #1 player. But it is downright scary to me, that Colangelo could watch these players and conclude Fultz was good enough to trade up to get. Incomprehensible. It doesn't bode well for future decisions. He's either on drugs or he's stupid.

That's fair, although there were a lot of people out there that thought Fultz was the #1 overall prospect. In fact, most did. Further, when you expand your scope to include national media that has no skin in the game or an axe to grind, most thought the trade was a pretty good one for Philly. Thus, while you could very well be correct, BC was not alone in his evaluation of Fultz, nor were many blasting him for what he gave to move up and get him. In fact, I think one of those people was our very own Derek Bodner if memory serves and he has a pretty solid track record when it comes to evaluation if memory serves.

Nonetheless, we are where we are right now and all we can do is hope that BC was on to something.

Derek Bodner is the same guy who had Jahlil Okafor rated higher than Porzingis on his final draft board and Hezonja as a top 5 pick... He don't know anymore than you or me. I'd rather follow Negrodamus or Kobble...

The National media doesnt do any homework with these prospects. They look at the internet lists, and take them as the gospel. They do the same thing in Football with Mel Kiper. Nerds like us, spend more time watching the games. The media will always say the team that picked the #1 player on a list, did well...

You think these east coast writers were up at at midnight watching Kadeem Allen put Fultz on lock-down? I guarantee, any one that watched Fultz against any good players (Gonzaga, Oregon, Arizona, UCLA) knows Colangelo messed up.

So your going to dog out a guy when he doesn't even post here anymore?? There might be a reason for that.

You guys are giving me a headache with nonsense, basketball isn't an exact science and no matter how many numbers you want to run, you still won't solve the equation.

[KrazySixersD]

dude ball was 3/15 again last night... his shooting numbers at all 3 levels are ABYSMAL

the 3 WORST LOOKING ROOKIES are your top 3 you listed... ball, jackson, DSJ

I would take an injured fultz over all 3 of those

I would take a healthy fultz over them in a second

in 5 years, lonzo ball wont be in the league, or he will be like MCW where he's 3rd string fodder

Jackson will be just a rotation guy off the bench

DSJ is the only one who has a chance at staying a starter of those 3 IMO and even then he could end up going to the way of Trey Burke(who I admit I thought was going to be really good) but that's who he reminds me right now, in a bad way not a good way

Fultz showed he could get anywhere on the court he wanted, was able to get open shots, and defended really well, and could pass really well. His athleticism was better than advertised and his length looked really good

When he's healthy, its going to look like Simmons vs Ingram after the fact... its not even a question

[Gsraider]

I don’t know more than anyone else. I’m wrong a lot. I’ll be wrong a lot more. I do value other people’s opinions though. Negrodamus and Kobblehead and LloydFree and Sixerscan and Corey Gallagher and Hartford Whalers and many others provide good insight. I don’t take people in the media who write or talk about it more serious than those guys on this board. I listen to all and I trust myself as well.

As you should. I wasn't remotely suggesting that you should follow what the media says. Far from it actually. In fact, I started with the point that I don't believe most of what the media reports when it comes to rumors. I don't believe a thing that Ainge says as well. However, beyond the obvious divisiveness on this board when it comes to Fultz, I was just suggesting that most analysts/scouts and national medial seem to like Fultz as a prospect, as well as the trade BC made to get him. That doesn't mean they are right, but theoretically, they may be more objective than passionate fans, that tend to be a tad more subjective.

In the end, you could be wrong about Fultz, much like I could or any of the guys you mentioned. Having watched several of the rookies play this year, it's almost comical to judge them at this point. I happened to be watching a game the other night with D. Smith and watched him shoot something like 1-8 and look lost out there. L. Ball had zero a night or two ago. I would imagine people would be going nuts if that happened here. Oh wait, I don't have to imagine. Anyway, they're rookies. We'll have a better feel by the end of the year who the winners/losers are from this draft and an even better feel after next year.

[Sixerscan]

Also, ignoring that both Woj and Stein reported that the Lakers wanted to trade up to #1 to draft Fultz is always convenient in these reactions.

They’re rarely wrong reporting something on their own, both of them reporting it...

My favorite part of all this is that watching a couple games of an injured Fultz has fully confirmed certain opinions about him. Yet the whole hatred of moving up for him was the opinion of some that Ball and Jackson are better yet somehow the fact that both have been awful so far is seemingly irrelevant.

So to recap:

Couple games of injured Fultz = see I told you he was awful
10% of season and Ball/Jackson look bad = either crickets or its early, too soon to judge

Nonsense. I followed prospects for 35 years. I don't make judgements on any players based on 10 games of a rookie season. I've seen too much. Gary Payton stunk for 2 years. Dirk stunk it up his rookie year. I make judgments based on how I believe the player's tools will project at the next level. I haven't changed my mind about Fultz or Ball or Jackson. I've watched all of them and they're all doing pretty much what I thought they would early. Ball and Jackson and DSj and Isaac are better talents than Fultz. A 10 game sample of what any of them has done so far means nothing to me.

Lol yeah you make judgments on 6 PAC12 games you watched on TV.

[spikeslovechild]

dude ball was 3/15 again last night... his shooting numbers at all 3 levels are ABYSMAL

the 3 WORST LOOKING ROOKIES are your top 3 you listed... ball, jackson, DSJ

I would take an injured fultz over all 3 of those

I would take a healthy fultz over them in a second

in 5 years, lonzo ball wont be in the league, or he will be like MCW where he's 3rd string fodder

Jackson will be just a rotation guy off the bench

DSJ is the only one who has a chance at staying a starter of those 3 IMO and even then he could end up going to the way of Trey Burke(who I admit I thought was going to be really good) but that's who he reminds me right now, in a bad way not a good way

Fultz showed he could get anywhere on the court he wanted, was able to get open shots, and defended really well, and could pass really well. His athleticism was better than advertised and his length looked really good

When he's healthy, its going to look like Simmons vs Ingram after the fact... its not even a question

In what world has DSJ been playing well? He has a - Ws/48. - BPM. - VORP. He has a PER of 9.0 and TS% .447. As far Jackson goes he's a wing who plays excellent defense and can knockdown the open three even if he doesn't develop beyond that you still have a starter.

I think ultimately DSJ will develop into a lou williams/ben gordon type scorer off the bench but I'm not worried about losing that. Not when Fultz has the possibility to be a top guard

Edit: Sorry quoted wrong post

[LloydFree]

My favorite part of all this is that watching a couple games of an injured Fultz has fully confirmed certain opinions about him. Yet the whole hatred of moving up for him was the opinion of some that Ball and Jackson are better yet somehow the fact that both have been awful so far is seemingly irrelevant.

So to recap:

Couple games of injured Fultz = see I told you he was awful
10% of season and Ball/Jackson look bad = either crickets or its early, too soon to judge

Nonsense. I followed prospects for 35 years. I don't make judgements on any players based on 10 games of a rookie season. I've seen too much. Gary Payton stunk for 2 years. Dirk stunk it up his rookie year. I make judgments based on how I believe the player's tools will project at the next level. I haven't changed my mind about Fultz or Ball or Jackson. I've watched all of them and they're all doing pretty much what I thought they would early. Ball and Jackson and DSj and Isaac are better talents than Fultz. A 10 game sample of what any of them has done so far means nothing to me.

Lol yeah you make judgments on 6 PAC12 games you watched on TV.

It didn't even take 6 games. It only takes 1 or 2 college games against good college competition to see which players stand out against their peers. It didnt take that long to see Fultz wasn't better than the other top players in the draft. I knew Embiid was special in half of a game.

[JojoSlimbiid]

My favorite part of all this is that watching a couple games of an injured Fultz has fully confirmed certain opinions about him. Yet the whole hatred of moving up for him was the opinion of some that Ball and Jackson are better yet somehow the fact that both have been awful so far is seemingly irrelevant.

So to recap:

Couple games of injured Fultz = see I told you he was awful
10% of season and Ball/Jackson look bad = either crickets or its early, too soon to judge

Nonsense. I followed prospects for 35 years. I don't make judgements on any players based on 10 games of a rookie season. I've seen too much. Gary Payton stunk for 2 years. Dirk stunk it up his rookie year. I make judgments based on how I believe the player's tools will project at the next level. I haven't changed my mind about Fultz or Ball or Jackson. I've watched all of them and they're all doing pretty much what I thought they would early. Ball and Jackson and DSj and Isaac are better talents than Fultz. A 10 game sample of what any of them has done so far means nothing to me.

Lol yeah you make judgments on 6 PAC12 games you watched on TV.

Yikes

[rzzzzz]

I knew Embiid was special in half of a game.

everybody who saw his pre-draft workout tape was stunned. lucky for us, he broke his navicular.

[Ericb5]

That's fair, although there were a lot of people out there that thought Fultz was the #1 overall prospect. In fact, most did. Further, when you expand your scope to include national media that has no skin in the game or an axe to grind, most thought the trade was a pretty good one for Philly. Thus, while you could very well be correct, BC was not alone in his evaluation of Fultz, nor were many blasting him for what he gave to move up and get him. In fact, I think one of those people was our very own Derek Bodner if memory serves and he has a pretty solid track record when it comes to evaluation if memory serves.

Nonetheless, we are where we are right now and all we can do is hope that BC was on to something.

Derek Bodner is the same guy who had Jahlil Okafor rated higher than Porzingis on his final draft board and Hezonja as a top 5 pick... He don't know anymore than you or me. I'd rather follow Negrodamus or Kobble...

The National media doesnt do any homework with these prospects. They look at the internet lists, and take them as the gospel. They do the same thing in Football with Mel Kiper. Nerds like us, spend more time watching the games. The media will always say the team that picked the #1 player on a list, did well...

You think these east coast writers were up at at midnight watching Kadeem Allen put Fultz on lock-down? I guarantee, any one that watched Fultz against any good players (Gonzaga, Oregon, Arizona, UCLA) knows Colangelo messed up.

So your going to dog out a guy when he doesn't even post here anymore?? There might be a reason for that.

You guys are giving me a headache with nonsense, basketball isn't an exact science and no matter how many numbers you want to run, you still won't solve the equation.

Everyone had Okafor higher than Porzingis. It is revisionist history to claim otherwise.


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[OzCastiel]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.