Why is Al Horford not considered one of the best players in the NBA by the common fan?

[King Ken]

When teams play him to pass he loses a lot of his offense because he's not much of a threat to score or take over a game outside of hitting a few jumpers in a row. He's good at taking advantage of space/weak points, but he's not someone that can overwhelm a focussed defense with his talent. Sorry, intangibles and the non boxscore stuff is easier to replicate, which makes his ranking a little muddier.

I think what you meant is when teams cut off the PnR, PnP and what he likes to do on offense which forces him to pass or score in positions that aren't favorable to him, he not as impactful on offense which could impact a team who needs him to produce on that end right? Just to be certain.

My take: Al's not a #1 option. He is mechanical in the low post, mainly is a finisher and is not a shot creator in the paint or perimeter, isn't all that quick with the ball and he's not a great ball handler unless he's in the open court for his position of course. Is that what you mean? I think it is, just not sure?

[Pennebaker]

I've heard knowledgeable fans compare him to Horace Grant who was, all in all, a good role player but he didn't make no one's life easier. He just had a define skill-set which is similar to Al's but it completely removes all of what Al can do above which Horace could NEVER do.

Opinions?

You're just wrong about Horace Grant. Didn't you see what happened to the Bulls when they lost Horace in FA to the Orlando Magic? The Bulls lost their rebounding and their best defensive big. Jordan and Pippen were then actually defeated in the playoffs by those Orlando Magic. Grant went back to the NBA Finals with a new pair of super star teammates (Shaq and Penny) while averaging 13/10 and making an All-Defensive team again (the same winning stuff he brought to the Bulls).

Jordan and Pippen wouldn't get back to the championship round until they filled the big hole that Grant left. They filled it with Dennis Rodman, got their rebounding and defense from the PF spot again, and recovered their championship mojo.

And Horace Grant was not just a 10 points 10 rebounds kind of player, but, like I said, he was also a 4x All-Defensive selection on the Bulls and Magic. His defense is what made him important. Horford will never be an All-Defensive selection.

The only All-League accolade Horford has earned is a single 3rd team All-NBA selection from 2011.

So it's not just the common fan that's lukewarm on Horford but it's All-NBA voters too.

horace grant gets mad underrated in realgm

dude was the glue guy in the first 90s bulls 3peat. he was an all-star caliber player and one of the top defenders in that bulls squad

if it werent for him anchoring their interior defense, the bulls would have a different fate compared to what happened

id say i would take him over most of the power forwards in the 90s except for malone and barkley due to his sheer willingness to be one of the best glue guys on championship teams

No kidding. But everyone on those Bulls teams are underrated because of MJ. Even Pippen to a degree.

Grant was not just one of the top defenders on that Bulls squad though. He was one of the top defenders in the entire league and he maintained that level even after he left Chicago.

[GidTimeRight]

Better than draymond

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[lambchop]

I think calling him top 10 is really reaching to the point of dislocating your shoulder. To me a top 10 player is a guy you can put on a l m o s t any nba team and if he goes FULL GEAR in the regular season he'll lead them to the playoffs or within contention as long as he's healthy.
To me those would be in no particular order

Steph
KD
Harden
Westbrook
CP3
Bron
Giannis
Kawhi
Anthony davis
[insert 10th player here] probably marc gasol, but lillards also been in the POs every year...Paul george been doin it too.

Those would be the best 1st options I can think of. Then the next tier would be cheat code level 2nd options so the kyries, klay thompsons, cousinssss, draymond greens (who is basically horford on steroids). Jurys still out on Embiid, simmons, porzingis due to small sample size

And I dont even know where to place damian lillard, marc gasol, paul george, blake griffin categorywise. But I'd personally take all of the guys I mentioned ahead of horford. But yea horford had a great game last night!

[jlokine]

yea top 10 player is a reach..

harden
curry
durant
westbrook
lebron
cousins
davis
giannis
kawhi
chris paul

is all better than him. and even in top 20

klay thompson
draymond
marc gasol
lillard
paul george
butler
towns
john wall
irving
griffin

is arguably better... (especially to the common fan)

like others have said, he's a great systems guy. plays within himself. within a system, in a role. a significant role. but even if you ask common fans in boston in terms of importance, they would say irving, hayward, horford. and before the trade, IT, avery bradley, horford.

We see the game completely different. It doesn't make you wrong and me right. I am pretty sure, you have a way that you are chosing your guys. For me:

harden (5)
curry (3t)
durant (2)
westbrook(6)
lebron (1)
davis(8t)
giannis (7)
kawhi (3t)
Draymond (8t)
Marc Gasol (10t)
Horford (10t)

but there in lies the problem with your question... you asked why horford is not considered one of the best by the common fan.. common fans dont watch tape the way you do. common fans looks at box score. common fans might play fantasy for fun or for winning money and horford doesnt do that for them cause what he does, doesnt show up in the box score.

[Winsome Gerbil]

yea top 10 player is a reach..

harden
curry
durant
westbrook
lebron
cousins
davis
giannis
kawhi
chris paul

is all better than him. and even in top 20

klay thompson
draymond
marc gasol
lillard
paul george
butler
towns
john wall
irving
griffin

is arguably better... (especially to the common fan)

like others have said, he's a great systems guy. plays within himself. within a system, in a role. a significant role. but even if you ask common fans in boston in terms of importance, they would say irving, hayward, horford. and before the trade, IT, avery bradley, horford.

We see the game completely different. It doesn't make you wrong and me right. I am pretty sure, you have a way that you are chosing your guys. For me:

harden (5)
curry (3t)
durant (2)
westbrook(6)
lebron (1)
davis(8t)
giannis (7)
kawhi (3t)
Draymond (8t)
Marc Gasol (10t)
Horford (10t)

but there in lies the problem with your question... you asked why horford is not considered one of the best by the common fan.. common fans dont watch tape the way you do. common fans looks at box score. common fans might play fantasy for fun or for winning money and horford doesnt do that for them cause what he does, doesnt show up in the box score.

psst...not to puncture any balloons...well, actually precisely to puncture some balloons...anyway, Al Horford's alleged greatness doesn't exactly show up in the impact stats we have either. In the past 4 years his RPM has been 98th, 27th, and 60th. A good player and clear Top 100 guy in impact, but certainly nothing to cause you to override the comparative lack of statistical output, or override your common sense, to call him a Top 10 or even Top 20 player. As you get out near #30 the conversation begins to get more interesting, but you're still running into the best players on good teams, guys like Kemba, DeRozan, where's Aldridge anymore, etc.

[Pharaoh]

True die hard fans appreciate guys like Horford because of all he brings to a team/system/structure/culture

But the average/common fan?

They're not thinking about having true pros in the locker room or on the bus, a guy who keeps the locker room light after a loss, a guy who simply by being himself allows other guys to flourish on both ends of the floor.

You ask why common fans don't appreciate the Horfords of the world - the answer is because the Horfords of the world aren't common!

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[BladeKor]

It's because Horford is just not, he disappears way too often in playoffs and not to mention he is streaky.

[Pennebaker]

yea top 10 player is a reach..

harden
curry
durant
westbrook
lebron
cousins
davis
giannis
kawhi
chris paul

is all better than him. and even in top 20

klay thompson
draymond
marc gasol
lillard
paul george
butler
towns
john wall
irving
griffin

is arguably better... (especially to the common fan)

like others have said, he's a great systems guy. plays within himself. within a system, in a role. a significant role. but even if you ask common fans in boston in terms of importance, they would say irving, hayward, horford. and before the trade, IT, avery bradley, horford.

We see the game completely different. It doesn't make you wrong and me right. I am pretty sure, you have a way that you are chosing your guys. For me:

harden (5)
curry (3t)
durant (2)
westbrook(6)
lebron (1)
davis(8t)
giannis (7)
kawhi (3t)
Draymond (8t)
Marc Gasol (10t)
Horford (10t)

but there in lies the problem with your question... you asked why horford is not considered one of the best by the common fan.. common fans dont watch tape the way you do. common fans looks at box score. common fans might play fantasy for fun or for winning money and horford doesnt do that for them cause what he does, doesnt show up in the box score.

The thing is that it's not just the common fan that feels that way about Horford. It is also the informed fan. It is also former players and former coaches. So it is pretty much everybody.

Is he one of the best players in the league? "The best players" can be a broad term. Does that mean top 30? Top 25? Top 20? Top 16? Top 9? Where do we draw the line in a league with 450 players?

Is he top 10? Well the NBA actually has people voting on these things every year and Horford doesn't get top recognition there either.

[KingDavid]

That's because people commonly associate "best" with top-5 to top-10 and Horford is neither.

I think Horford is a top 10 player. I don't think it's debatable either. I look at the overall impact. I don't just look at the scoreboard. I actually watch and understand Basketball and understand how players play and how you can be utilized said player.

I am not one of those fans who sees a player struggling and says, well he sucks. I look at his role, his personnel grouping, his ability to fit said scheme and his ability to adjust to said scheme. I see the ENTIRE game. Not just if he can pass, rebound, shoot, has the tools. I look at everything. So when you said Al Horford, I see something different. I don't know what you see, but if you don't see what I see, that's fine but I just want you to acknowledge what I see and understand the effect it has on Millsap, Noah, Kyrie, IT and other players he's played with in the past. The man literally single-handedly made Kyle Korver an All Star. Name one player in NBA history who could do that?

He tends to shrink away in the playoffs. That's usually where you forge greatness. Not so top 10 right now.

Back in his prime though...

[sixerswillrule]

His impact on the game is always beyond numbers and ALWAYS appears on the game tape.

I think Horford is a top 10 player. I don't think it's debatable either.

RPM is a stat which goes way beyond box score numbers.

Robert Covington doesn't put up big numbers. He ranked 5th among SFs in RPM last season, 25th overall.

Patrick Beverley doesn't put up big numbers. He ranked 11th among PGs in RPM last season, 40th overall.

Al Horford ranked 14th among PFs last season, 60th overall.

I'm not saying Horford is the 60th best player in the league. But you cannot seriously think he is a top 10 player. There is no legitimate argument for saying he is even a top 20 player.

I watch tape. I don't really use or care about RPM. So if that's your thing, let it be you. That's not me.

Try watching more tape of Blake Griffin, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, John Wall, Kyle Lowry, Damian Lillard, and Rudy Gobert because Al Horford is on a completely different, lower tier than those guys in impact on the game.

[cpower]

he is a top 10 PF/C but on the lower end of top 10. Top 10 player?

[KnickFan33]

Long story short, it’s because he doesn’t do anything fancy. While he isn’t nearly as good, he has he “boring” game and personality of a Tim Duncan. Which the media can’t really make money off of.

If the teams he’s played for had more success on a much more consistent basis, the situation might be different. The media would be forced into giving him a lot more attention.

[OzCastiel]

He's an incredibly underrated presence but one of the best in the nba is such a damn reach. Shoulda said one of the best big men or power forwards or something

[Def Leppard]

Clearly the answer is because the "common fan" does not possess your awesome basketball acumen, nor self-effacing humility.

Come on man, "maybe he just sees the game better than most?"

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[King Ken]

Long story short, it’s because he doesn’t do anything fancy. While he isn’t nearly as good, he has he “boring” game and personality of a Tim Duncan. Which the media can’t really make money off of.

If the teams he’s played for had more success on a much more consistent basis, the situation might be different. The media would be forced into giving him a lot more attention.

Another player I valued to the tape far more than media and writers did. I always had him rated at #1 over Kobe and sometimes over Shaq. He's the one player that's in my top 5 of all time that's usually not in others top 5 ATG. Duncan was criminally underrated.

[Plutonashfan]

Not even wasting my time ready all the nonsense you type up. Dude is averages 14/7 has played awful in players and has been to the ECF twice in career. He is poster child of average and us grossly overpaid. He overrated if anything and is euro soft.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I like Horford a lot, and I think the idea that he is top 10 in the league is ridiculous. In case there was any question whether the OP was overreaching and being unrealistic, this thread more or less began with:

I think Horford is a top 10 player. I don't think it's debatable either.

followed by pages of people debating it, and very few people agreeing with the premise. Clearly it is debatable.

[Darth Celtic]

Horford is the guy that makes the team better but it's hard to notice to the casual fan or stat watcher. He made a very good player in IT have an MVP type season when he joined last year. This year he instead has a PG in Kyrie who also makes the team look better making Al's game that much better. He's not top 10, but he's top 30 and is very important for the first place team who also has the number 1 defense in the league at the moment.

[Scarletfire81]

While I agree Horford is not a top 10 player, he may be a top 10 player for Brads System. As well as Kyrie, they fit his system like a glove and will be very hard to stop.