Markelle Fultz Discussion II

[the_process]

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

If Hinkie was forced to take Okafor over Porzingis, its his own fault for how he handled the 2014 draft. He should have never sected Dario Saric, knowing he wasn't going to have either Embiid or Saric for a year. If ownership ran interference on the pick, it is what it is. The fan base would have had a riot if they picked Porzingis, after taking Saric and Embiid. For rebuilding teams the draft is not only a talent grab, but a source for marketing and promotion (see the ridiculous Fultz trade selling out season tickets).

The MCW trade, although genius, was the beginning of the end for Sam. For that very marketing reason, he pissed off Scott O’Neil, who then got in Josh’s ear about hiring someone above Hinkie “who knew more about basketball”. Enter the nepotists. Sam had the leash to take big risks prior to that deal. Afterwards, he clearly did not.

[Ericb5]

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

Jerry may have “meddled” to force the ish Smith trade. The rest is pure speculation/rubbish.

Josh Harris didn’t get to where he is by stepping out of his lane. Meddling in areas that you don’t know a lot about is bad business.

And guys who get to be where Josh Harris is also begin to think that their poop doesn’t stink. But in this case, when I say owners, I’m more referring to JC and Scott O’Neil. Even though neither of them are owners per se, they both speak for the ownership group.

Both JC and O’Neil are employees and not part of ownership. However, my statement still applies to O’Neil. He would never make a basketball decision.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LloydFree]

The owners meddled in getting Sam to trade for Ish Smith. The owners meddled in vetoing trading Okafor to Boston. The owners meddled in IR decisions on Embiid and Fultz. I’m not saying they did force Hinkie to take Okafor, but I’m certainly not putting it past them, either.

If Hinkie was forced to take Okafor over Porzingis, its his own fault for how he handled the 2014 draft. He should have never sected Dario Saric, knowing he wasn't going to have either Embiid or Saric for a year. If ownership ran interference on the pick, it is what it is. The fan base would have had a riot if they picked Porzingis, after taking Saric and Embiid. For rebuilding teams the draft is not only a talent grab, but a source for marketing and promotion (see the ridiculous Fultz trade selling out season tickets).

The MCW trade, although genius, was the beginning of the end for Sam. For that very marketing reason, he pissed off Scott O’Neil, who then got in Josh’s ear about hiring someone above Hinkie “who knew more about basketball”. Enter the nepotists. Sam had the leash to take big risks prior to that deal. Afterwards, he clearly did not.

True. He lost a lot of the media and the casual fanbase, with that move. He couldn't go on deferring picks and missing on the ones he used. He made some brilliant trades to accumulate picks, but he only picked. 2 good players. Presti, who tanked for years and survived, because he kept hitting picks. You can't do that picking Okafors and Sarics.

[Eyeamok]

Danny finessed philly but thank god they didn't take Lonzo. At least fultz can hopefully be a spot up shooter off the bench one day.

I think your partially right about what Ainge did. But just as big as the Danny factor is the ego of BC. No matter what happened up to that point Hinkies fingerprints were still all over the team. BC had traded away Noel for a bag of peanuts and tired to convince the fans he got a #1 pick for him. And Okafor was doing nothing..was he injured or not?

Our two best assets Simmons and Embiid were not playing. BC probably felt this might be his last time to make a big splash. So he went all in on Fultz. If nothing else he could say I added the #1 overall pick to this team. Did he overpay, time will tell. But making his mark on the team was a big reason why this trade was made. BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

Then who can? LOL wth he drafted him

You have a join date of December 2016. So if you were not lurking you missed all the fun times here on the 76ers board during the start of the process.

If you truly want to give BC credit for drafting Simmons. Then go ahead. Nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. I guess you are truly "awoke" to the situation.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings. We won the lotto to get the #1 pick that season.

Simmons was also the consensus #1 pick; no matter what dumb article you might've read saying Ingram was a legit contender for that spot, no one competent would've taken anyone else. This is not revisionist anything either--maybe if Ingram wasn't slow and had any moves aside from 'take two dribbles and shoot fadeaway 16 footer' there would've been a real debate, but Simmons was so far ahead of his peers athletically and skill-wise that even a hype skeptic like myself had him like two tiers above the next guys.

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uh, yeah... about that. Heard from a little birdie that Scott O'Neil was absolutely furious when the Sixers traded MCW, and he personally told Josh Harris to not let Sam Hinkie trade Okafor for that offer Boston gave him.

There is absolutely meddling in this front office. Not sure it's Harris, but there is evidence Jerry Colangelo has meddled, and I'd bet my life based on logic and things I've heard Scott O'Neil does too.

[Eyeamok]

BC can't really take credit for Simmons, he can't take credit for Embiid, but he can for Fultz. Even though it was done through the hard work of Hinkies wheeling and dealing.

Then who can? LOL wth he drafted him

Is this your first year following the Sixers? There was a man named Samwell Hinkie who laid out this plan for the team to be bad in order to get a series of top-5 picks, and he was forced out late in the 2016 season after he'd already secured the team another season at the bottom of the standings.

I see what you did there.

[Eyeamok]

So basically Fultz is a bust right? Based off of a few games, an injured shoulder and a few knee jerk reactions? Now, I remember why I stay away these days.

Do you know what's funny about your statement it reflects the shift in attitude that a lot of people on this board have expressed. Patience and planning for the future was all that was preached at the start of the process, if a player sucks, don't worry we can coach him up and see if he can become better. Now that the team has experienced a little success, there seems to be a right now attitude and patience be damed from a lot of people on this board.

[Ericb5]

What does this even mean? Colangelo made the pick. I find it funny how many people cite random stories that Hinkie wanted to take Porzingis yet scoff at all the rumors that he wanted Ingram and that he had dinner with Wiggins with the intention of drafting him. I guess since Ingram and Wiggins kind of suck we can't attribute that to Sam the legend Hinkie...but we can attribute him wanting to draft Porzingis because well you know Porzingis is good.

Anyway back onto the topic I expect to start hearing stories soon of random jumper sightings. Hopefully some clips too

There is zero indication that Hinkie wanted Porzingis or Ingram.

Hinkie is responsible for selecting Okafor and I find it ridiculous and insulting to imply that the owners would meddle in a basketball decision like who to draft.

On the flip side Simmons was the no brainer first pick and Hinkie gets 100% credit for getting us that pick.

He also deserves a lot of credit for getting us the assets that led to Fultz even though Bryan made the decision. I think Fultz is a 50-50 responsibility for Bryan and Sam.

Bryan gets partial credit for TLC and Korkmaz since Hinkie got us those assets, and Bryan made the picks. He gets full credit for Amir and Reddick. Hinkie still dominates this franchise with his influence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uh, yeah... about that. Heard from a little birdie that Scott O'Neil was absolutely furious when the Sixers traded MCW, and he personally told Josh Harris to not let Sam Hinkie trade Okafor for that offer Boston gave him.

There is absolutely meddling in this front office. Not sure it's Harris, but there is evidence Jerry Colangelo has meddled, and I'd bet my life based on logic and things I've heard Scott O'Neil does too.

Anything Jerry did wouldn’t be meddling though because he was a basketball consultant. I have no doubt that Jerry was giving opinions on basketball matters because that is his expertise.

Whether or not O’Neil was against the MCW trade is irrelevant. He had no basketball say, and Josh Harris would be a fool to make basketball decisions, and I don’t believe he is a fool.

Business wise the Sixers have been a great investment regardless of the tanking years, and it wasn’t until Harris thought that the league was getting pissed off that he changed course imo. I think he actually thought that Hinkie wouldn’t have quit, but Hinkie has brass balls and told him to shove it.

Doesn’t matter in the end. We will never now what happened behind the scenes with Porzingis. I believe Hinkie loved him, but I also believe that he thought that Okafor was the best pick at the time. He turned out to be wrong, but I think Hinkie would have quit then if Harris didn’t let him choose who he thought was best.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Eyeamok]

If Hinkie was forced to take Okafor over Porzingis, its his own fault for how he handled the 2014 draft. He should have never sected Dario Saric, knowing he wasn't going to have either Embiid or Saric for a year. If ownership ran interference on the pick, it is what it is. The fan base would have had a riot if they picked Porzingis, after taking Saric and Embiid. For rebuilding teams the draft is not only a talent grab, but a source for marketing and promotion (see the ridiculous Fultz trade selling out season tickets).

The MCW trade, although genius, was the beginning of the end for Sam. For that very marketing reason, he pissed off Scott O’Neil, who then got in Josh’s ear about hiring someone above Hinkie “who knew more about basketball”. Enter the nepotists. Sam had the leash to take big risks prior to that deal. Afterwards, he clearly did not.

True. He lost a lot of the media and the casual fanbase, with that move. He couldn't go on deferring picks and missing on the ones he used. He made some brilliant trades to accumulate picks, but he only picked. 2 good players. Presti, who tanked for years and survived, because he kept hitting picks. You can't do that picking Okafors and Sarics.

As many people have said Hinkie needed to develop a better relationship with the media. For whatever reason he did not. He was then cast in the mode of the "GM that is so much smarter than everyone else that he does not have to explain himself!" With a better relationship with the media and Embiid not needing the second surgery, things would have probably been different for Hinkie here.

[76ciology]

Until Hinkie is hired by some sports team, I'd like to believe he still works for us under cover. He watched Fultz play in UW right? Tin foiled hat.

I was pro tanking around 2006 and wanting a Hinkie type rebuild back then. I want to let go Iggy to draft Durant or Oden back then. So Ive thought this through for quite a while.

Dont quote me because this is just subjective

[marcush]

So basically Fultz is a bust right? Based off of a few games, an injured shoulder and a few knee jerk reactions? Now, I remember why I stay away these days.

Do you know what's funny about your statement it reflects the shift in attitude that a lot of people on this board have expressed. Patience and planning for the future was all that was preached at the start of the process, if a player sucks, don't worry we can coach him up and see if he can become better. Now that the team has experienced a little success, there seems to be a right now attitude and patience be damed from a lot of people on this board.

I know right....you should check out "The Process is off course..." thread and look at how people lose their minds instead of show a little bit of patience.....

[76ciology]

Yeah, Ainge and Celts looked like they have the better end in the deal. It would take quite some standard for Fultz to jump over that and the potential of the Lakers/kings pick.

But I really believe, its one of those impact>value moves. That a winning team and a promising Fultz will make the people focus on the winning than the detailed value of the deal.

In the end, the Fultz deal has to get done. Because the window of consolidating assets is closing with Bid/Ben situation that they can't hope for a third star that would fit and the salary cap situation.

What if Tatum is just a younger version of Robert Covington (referring to impact than style) and the Lakers pick ending up being another center? A situation that is way more likely to happen than Tatum being a star wing and Lakers pick being Doncic.

[Unbreakable99]

All these rookies playing out of their minds and Fultz is not playing.

[the_process]

Jerry may have “meddled” to force the ish Smith trade. The rest is pure speculation/rubbish.

Josh Harris didn’t get to where he is by stepping out of his lane. Meddling in areas that you don’t know a lot about is bad business.

And guys who get to be where Josh Harris is also begin to think that their poop doesn’t stink. But in this case, when I say owners, I’m more referring to JC and Scott O’Neil. Even though neither of them are owners per se, they both speak for the ownership group.

Both JC and O’Neil are employees and not part of ownership. However, my statement still applies to O’Neil. He would never make a basketball decision.

Thanks for the semantics lesson. Let me throw that back at you. O’Neil makes the marketing decisions, and when the basketball decisions affect the marketing decisions... MCW trade... but you don’t do applied logic, huh? “Speculation”.

[PhilasFinest]

All these rookies playing out of their minds and Fultz is not playing.

At least our rookie has looked like the cream of the crop (Ben Simmons)

[Ericb5]

And guys who get to be where Josh Harris is also begin to think that their poop doesn’t stink. But in this case, when I say owners, I’m more referring to JC and Scott O’Neil. Even though neither of them are owners per se, they both speak for the ownership group.

Both JC and O’Neil are employees and not part of ownership. However, my statement still applies to O’Neil. He would never make a basketball decision.

Thanks for the semantics lesson. Let me throw that back at you. O’Neil makes the marketing decisions, and when the basketball decisions affect the marketing decisions... MCW trade... but you don’t do applied logic, huh? “Speculation”.

When the basketball decision affects the marketing decisions then he is upset. He still wasn’t making basketball decisions.

My point is that this is completely logical, but your point is what? You have some indication that Hinkie was being overruled on basketball decisions by O’Neil or Harris?

Hinkie would have quit earlier if they did that.

A bean counter isn’t going to make basketball decisions. Better said, Josh Harris wouldn’t let a bean counter make basketball decisions.

Hinkie deserves all credit and all blame for all of his moves, and he quit when he was about to lose that power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the_process]

Yeah, Ainge and Celts looked like they have the better end in the deal. It would take quite some standard for Fultz to jump over that and the potential of the Lakers/kings pick.

But I really believe, its one of those impact>value moves. That a winning team and a promising Fultz will make the people focus on the winning than the detailed value of the deal.

In the end, the Fultz deal has to get done. Because the window of consolidating assets is closing with Bid/Ben situation that they can't hope for a third star that would fit and the salary cap situation.

What if Tatum is just a younger version of Robert Covington (referring to impact than style) and the Lakers pick ending up being another center? A situation that is way more likely to happen than Tatum being a star wing and Lakers pick being Doncic.

I would be ecstatic if the Celtics got the Lakers pick and took Luka Doncic. Maybe I’m alone in that, but there you go.

And for another bold statement... Jayson Tatum is just an upper middle class man’s Rudy Gay.

[Kobblehead]

There are 12 players in the 2017 draft that have earned 20 minute roles as a rookie. Of those 12, only 4 (John Collins, Kyle Kuzma, Jayson Tatum and Lauri Markkanen) have generated positive value. Another 2 (Lonzo Ball and Dillon Brooks) of those 12 are neutral value generators.

There's not much going on around the league to warrant being envious, IMO. Unless you're enamored with Kuz and Lauri balling in stretch four roles.

[Chris76]

Yeah, Ainge and Celts looked like they have the better end in the deal. It would take quite some standard for Fultz to jump over that and the potential of the Lakers/kings pick.

But I really believe, its one of those impact>value moves. That a winning team and a promising Fultz will make the people focus on the winning than the detailed value of the deal.

In the end, the Fultz deal has to get done. Because the window of consolidating assets is closing with Bid/Ben situation that they can't hope for a third star that would fit and the salary cap situation.

What if Tatum is just a younger version of Robert Covington (referring to impact than style) and the Lakers pick ending up being another center? A situation that is way more likely to happen than Tatum being a star wing and Lakers pick being Doncic.

Bayless is playing ok, but his defense seems poor.
Fultz could be a good defender against PGs with his long wingspan.

Fultz gets his shot back, he could be a nice 2 way 3rd star.

[Kobblehead]

Coming from a critic of Fultz, I'm now optimistic about him.

Offensively: He looks more explosive than he did at Washington. He got to where he wanted to go on the court when he was out there. Attacked the rim at a 33% clip and finished at an excellent 66.7% rate.

Defensively: His deflection stats translated from college right away and is oozing defensive potential. Obviously he'll need to grow and mature as a team defender and learn the nuance of playing consistent D at the NBA level. But so far, so decent for a 19 year old.

I like what I see on the basketball court. A little concerned with the immaturity and lack of professional readiness, though.