2017-18 OFF-SEASON

[Neddy]

if we can get Cole Hamels, Alex Claudio, and a pair of top 30 prospects, while giving just enough money back to the Rangers to keep them under the Lux Tax, I would consider this.

Hamels
Hill
Wood
McCarthy
Ryu
Urias
Buehler

this rotation is palatable.

[Neddy]

THE FANS ARE LISTENING!

THEY ARE OPEN TO IT!


FRIEDMAN I HOPE YOU ARE READING THIS FORUM!
I know you aren’t but one can hope.


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how was the office? Im about to get going to do some chart notes.

your dad still practicing too?

Oh it’s a mess. Organization isnt my strong suit but I am making it my priority. I will get there.

Yeah, Pops is still going.


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I can't wait to get old (and still living, lol) to see my son at age 29. my daughter is in high school but my boy is only 10. 19 more years I will be 61. your pops must be very proud of you.

[Quake Griffin]

Let’s say I’m all in on the win now scenario....

I’d take a step back in ace to assure they’re a non choker and then add a #2 at the deadline.

Not sure if Hamels is that guy. I think he blew up right after Yu in that series against Toronto.


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[Neddy]

going back to talking about baseball,

Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks won the 2017 NPB championship against the Yokohama Baystars who are typically a perennial losers.

Kia Tigers won the KBO championship.

Australian Baseball League starts this month, on November 16th. the first exhibition games are played this weekend.

[Neddy]

Let’s say I’m all in on the win now scenario....

I’d take a step back in ace to assure they’re a non choker and then add a #2 at the deadline.

Not sure if Hamels is that guy. I think he blew up right after Yu in that series against Toronto.


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If we trade Kershaw, it gets hard not to resign Yu. I don't think we should go there but that's the reality.

man gotta land Shohei. that is the only hope to content in 2018 if we do trade Kershaw.


and despite my previous post about dumping our dead money players along with Kershaw, if we do trade Kershaw we must get value in return. I would not be against the idea of dealing him to the RedSox and poach David Price and Craig Kimbrel. prefer Chris Sale but no way that happens. Sale was the better pitcher than Kershaw in 2017.

[Quake Griffin]

I’m punting on 2018.

Thats just me.

I dont want Yu back. That leaves Kershaw as our ace and us still looking for a #2 starter (preferably a Curt Schilling type thats nails in October).

In that scenario we are setup for a division crown and another playoff L.

I’d rip the band-aid off.
———————

The only other scenario is bring EVERYBODY back (Yu included) and pray our 2 expensive aces dont choke.

Good luck with either of these 2 scenarios.
_________________

I’d rather just rip the band aid off, build around Corey and Cody, develop our young pitchers and if it goes well, add at the deadline from our riches.







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[Neddy]

I’m punting on 2018.

Thats just me.

I dont want Yu back. That leaves Kershaw as our ace and us still looking for a #2 starter (preferably a Curt Schilling type thats nails in October).

In that scenario we are setup for a division crown and another playoff L.

I’d rip the band-aid off.
———————

The only other scenario is bring EVERYBODY back (Yu included) and pray our 2 expensive aces dont choke.

Good luck with either of these 2 scenarios.
_________________

I’d rather just rip the band aid off, build around Corey and Cody, develop our young pitchers and if it goes well, add at the deadline from our riches.







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rebuilding is hard, and it never really goes the way you wish 99% of the time.

we were one game away from winning it all. we can't tear this team down now.

I am open to trades, including Kersh, but it has to make sense for winning.

Corey and Cody are gonna be fine players, they already are, but if two stud batters won you a WS ring, 2001 Mariners and 1998 Padres would have a ring also.

I know you said "develop young pitchers" but we are not going to develop another Kershaw for a long time. Urias and Buehler looks like potential top of the rotation type guys, but we haven't seen them in big games yet as well.

again, I am not being a Kershaw apologist. simply saying the value lost versus value gained in the open market, is very unlikely to make this team better.

[Neddy]

what about a dream of Urias and Buehler learning the ropes under Kershaw and become the dominant pitchers for the post season?

say, by 2019,

Kershaw
Wood
Urias
Buehler
Hill
Maeda

man, only if we can secure Ohtani... to slot him between Kershaw and Wood. we would be invincible even with Kershaw's post season woes.

[Quake Griffin]

I’m punting on 2018.

Thats just me.

I dont want Yu back. That leaves Kershaw as our ace and us still looking for a #2 starter (preferably a Curt Schilling type thats nails in October).

In that scenario we are setup for a division crown and another playoff L.

I’d rip the band-aid off.
———————

The only other scenario is bring EVERYBODY back (Yu included) and pray our 2 expensive aces dont choke.

Good luck with either of these 2 scenarios.
_________________

I’d rather just rip the band aid off, build around Corey and Cody, develop our young pitchers and if it goes well, add at the deadline from our riches.







Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

rebuilding is hard, and it never really goes the way you wish 99% of the time.

we were one game away from winning it all. we can't tear this team down now.

I am open to trades, including Kersh, but it has to make sense for winning.

Corey and Cody are gonna be fine players, they already are, but if two stud batters won you a WS ring, 2001 Mariners and 1998 Padres would have a ring also.

I know you said "develop young pitchers" but we are not going to develop another Kershaw for a long time. Urias and Buehler looks like potential top of the rotation type guys, but we haven't seen them in big games yet as well.

again, I am not being a Kershaw apologist. simply saying the value lost versus value gained in the open market, is very unlikely to make this team better.

We’re not tearing the team down. We would be remodling.

Lineup. Check
Defense. Check
Bullpen. Check

This is a good team without him. The hole with him being gone can be filled via trade by a lesser ace pitcher but one who probably won’t choke in October.

He has the same fWAR as Chris Archer. His regular season production at this point can be matched. Just LOL at this idea that we are nothing without him.

No. He’s nothing without 7 runs to cover up 4 Dirt Bag homers.
No. He’s nothing without bullpen and offense picking up his Almora (lol, really) homer.
No. He’s nothing without Rich Hill, the bullpen, and the offense stepping up in Game 6 to even give him a shot at a Game 7, when he coughed up what everybody recognizes as a pivotal Game 5.



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[Neddy]

I’m punting on 2018.

Thats just me.

I dont want Yu back. That leaves Kershaw as our ace and us still looking for a #2 starter (preferably a Curt Schilling type thats nails in October).

In that scenario we are setup for a division crown and another playoff L.

I’d rip the band-aid off.
———————

The only other scenario is bring EVERYBODY back (Yu included) and pray our 2 expensive aces dont choke.

Good luck with either of these 2 scenarios.
_________________

I’d rather just rip the band aid off, build around Corey and Cody, develop our young pitchers and if it goes well, add at the deadline from our riches.







Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

rebuilding is hard, and it never really goes the way you wish 99% of the time.

we were one game away from winning it all. we can't tear this team down now.

I am open to trades, including Kersh, but it has to make sense for winning.

Corey and Cody are gonna be fine players, they already are, but if two stud batters won you a WS ring, 2001 Mariners and 1998 Padres would have a ring also.

I know you said "develop young pitchers" but we are not going to develop another Kershaw for a long time. Urias and Buehler looks like potential top of the rotation type guys, but we haven't seen them in big games yet as well.

again, I am not being a Kershaw apologist. simply saying the value lost versus value gained in the open market, is very unlikely to make this team better.

We’re not tearing the team down. We would be remodling.

Lineup. Check
Defense. Check
Bullpen. Check

This is a good team without him. The hole with him being gone can be filled via trade by a lesser ace pitcher but one who probably won’t choke in October.

He has the same fWAR as Chris Archer. His regular season production at this point can be matched. Just LOL at this idea that we are nothing without him.

No. He’s nothing without 7 runs to cover up 4 Dirt Bag homers.
No. He’s nothing without bullpen and offense picking up his Almora (lol, really) homer.
No. He’s nothing without Rich Hill, the bullpen, and the offense stepping up in Game 6 to even give him a shot at a Game 7, when he coughed up what everybody recognizes as a pivotal Game 5.



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well? baseball is a team sport, after all. one man does not make the team. to say we are nothing without him, would be a hyperbole.

but he still is the best pitcher of the last 7 years of the major leagues. however, to go along with your thought process, the Kerhaw's replacement for the staff ace, has to be someone who is unaffected by slick balls in post season.

4 seam and 2 seam fastball, changeup, sinker and knuckleballs are the pitches that are immune to the slickness of the ball.
now we are on a mission to find that ace.

but just to give a context, before Kershaw, it was Greg Maddux that was known through out his twenties to be a choke job in the post season. he got his just before turning 30. Kershaw is 29. he will be in the middle of his 30th year on earth when the 2018 post season comes around. it just takes 2 decent, not great, but decent starts in the last two games of the year in late October to change all this.

[Neddy]

Yo Quake, didn't mean to sound like some know-it-all.

it's just my opinion, that's all. I can't believe we are still in here posting about our dodgers like the season is still going on, lol can you?

[Quake Griffin]

Man.

What do yall not get? I DO NOT MIND ANY DISCUSSION OR ARGUMENT ABOUT MY DODGERS!

lmao.

My family aint involved. It’s not personal, so I don’t care. I can literally talk about this **** all day whether we agree or disagree.

****, sometimes I’m in the car on the way to work thinking up scenarios or diff things the team could do.
______________


Maddux did figure it out eventually. This used to be my hope for Kershaw. Used to.

Maddux had deception and change of speeds. It makes sense to me how he could eventually figure it out and eventually see a team twice AND be good both times.

I’ve yet to see Kershaw be good against a playoff team twice except 2013 Braves and lets just say, there were better October lineups than that team.




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[Neddy]

Man.

What do yall not get? I DO NOT MIND ANY DISCUSSION OR ARGUMENT ABOUT MY DODGERS!

lmao.

My family aint involved. It’s not personal, so I don’t care. I can literally talk about this **** all day whether we agree or disagree.

****, sometimes I’m in the car on the way to work thinking up scenarios or diff things the team could do.
______________


Maddux did figure it out eventually. This used to be my hope for Kershaw. Used to.

Maddux had deception and change of speeds. It makes sense to me how he could eventually figure it out and eventually see a team twice AND be good both times.

I’ve yet to see Kershaw be good against a playoff team twice except 2013 Braves and lets just say, there were better October lineups than that team.




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hey I figured that much already, but good to know for sure.

consider it a middle aged guy with a brain tumor worrying about things like your mother would worry about things that are really nothing.

so the baseball solution is still the same.

Kershaw must work with Ryu all winter to learn how to throw a quality change up. swallow your pride, and learn from lesser players to strengthen your weakness.

Kershaw with Ryu's changeup would make him invincible. at least in regular season before he starts tipping off his pitches in the post season.

[Quake Griffin]

Since I know I’ll never get what I want, I hope a team like the D-Backs gives him $300 million over like 3 years next winter.

Even that wouldn’t work tbh.
Our fans would just think our FO should match it.




Ive made it absolutely clear where I want the franchise to go and it is from under the weight and influence of Peyton Kershaw. Since that will never happen, I will speak in only plausible realities even though I think my idea is best.


Outside of trading Grandal, I’d pretty much like to stand pat. I don’t see an absolute better option than Verdugo in LF. I love our top end pitching prospects but I am not in love with Yadier Alvarez yet. However, his upside is too much for me to sell at this point because if I’m not in love with him yet, how could other teams be?

This goes mostly for the whole year including the deadline. I view the 2017 team as the best version of our stop gap teams and our destination is:

Corey
Cody
Urias
Buehler
And hopefully
Otani
Alvarez

No team paying 37 year old Rich Hill $16 million over 3 years is exactly where they want to be. That’s why I always thought it would be cool to “steal” a WS with this group and then actually be that juggernaut in the 2020s.

There are guys I’d listen on but I doubt the price is something I’d like paying without gathering a nice haul for our choking star ace.

What I think will actually happen:

Kershaw stays....of course.
Darvish is re-signed with an opt out option that he will never use.
And we put Verdugo in LF.
I also think Joc gets dealt.



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[Quake Griffin]

Greg Holland declines $15 million option.
My guess is he wants years. I wonder what this means for Brandon Morrow's market???

I think I prefer Morrow but I would not mind having Holland setup Mariano 2.0.

Both? I don't think i can justify that much salary being spent on the bullpen though.

[CF55]

Greg Holland declines $15 million option.
My guess is he wants years. I wonder what this means for Brandon Morrow's market???

I think I prefer Morrow but I would not mind having Holland setup Mariano 2.0.

Both? I don't think i can justify that much salary being spent on the bullpen though.

Holland won't come here no matter the contract we offer he wants to be a closer and someone will pay him like one.

As for Morrow I'm not entirely sure I want him back. Morrow was great I won't deny that but he sucked in Triple A before we called him up midseason and his arm is a ticking time bomb. He was quite fun to watch down the stretch last season but I really don't think he can repeat the year he had again. I also think some team might be stupid enough to offer Morrow a closers job.

[Neddy]

Since I know I’ll never get what I want, I hope a team like the D-Backs gives him $300 million over like 3 years next winter.

Even that wouldn’t work tbh.
Our fans would just think our FO should match it.




Ive made it absolutely clear where I want the franchise to go and it is from under the weight and influence of Peyton Kershaw. Since that will never happen, I will speak in only plausible realities even though I think my idea is best.


Outside of trading Grandal, I’d pretty much like to stand pat. I don’t see an absolute better option than Verdugo in LF. I love our top end pitching prospects but I am not in love with Yadier Alvarez yet. However, his upside is too much for me to sell at this point because if I’m not in love with him yet, how could other teams be?

This goes mostly for the whole year including the deadline. I view the 2017 team as the best version of our stop gap teams and our destination is:

Corey
Cody
Urias
Buehler
And hopefully
Otani
Alvarez

No team paying 37 year old Rich Hill $16 million over 3 years is exactly where they want to be. That’s why I always thought it would be cool to “steal” a WS with this group and then actually be that juggernaut in the 2020s.

There are guys I’d listen on but I doubt the price is something I’d like paying without gathering a nice haul for our choking star ace.

What I think will actually happen:

Kershaw stays....of course.
Darvish is re-signed with an opt out option that he will never use.
And we put Verdugo in LF.
I also think Joc gets dealt.



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if our ownership was Peter O'Malley and his friends, or McDuck, yeah it is clearly the right time to sell Kershaw high. I agree. but we are owned by Guggenheim and they seem to print money out of thin air. but if Guggenheim is serious turn profit, and back to back over the lux penalties start accumulating, it is plausible.

again, quoting Branch Rickey,"It is better to sell a player a year too early than a year too late"

if we package Kershaw and Grandal together, I bet we can dump off Gonzo's money and still get value in return.

[Quake Griffin]

Option on Logan Forsythe officially exercised.


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[CF55]

Since I know I’ll never get what I want, I hope a team like the D-Backs gives him $300 million over like 3 years next winter.

Even that wouldn’t work tbh.
Our fans would just think our FO should match it.




Ive made it absolutely clear where I want the franchise to go and it is from under the weight and influence of Peyton Kershaw. Since that will never happen, I will speak in only plausible realities even though I think my idea is best.


Outside of trading Grandal, I’d pretty much like to stand pat. I don’t see an absolute better option than Verdugo in LF. I love our top end pitching prospects but I am not in love with Yadier Alvarez yet. However, his upside is too much for me to sell at this point because if I’m not in love with him yet, how could other teams be?

This goes mostly for the whole year including the deadline. I view the 2017 team as the best version of our stop gap teams and our destination is:

Corey
Cody
Urias
Buehler
And hopefully
Otani
Alvarez

No team paying 37 year old Rich Hill $16 million over 3 years is exactly where they want to be. That’s why I always thought it would be cool to “steal” a WS with this group and then actually be that juggernaut in the 2020s.

There are guys I’d listen on but I doubt the price is something I’d like paying without gathering a nice haul for our choking star ace.

What I think will actually happen:

Kershaw stays....of course.
Darvish is re-signed with an opt out option that he will never use.
And we put Verdugo in LF.
I also think Joc gets dealt.



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if our ownership was Peter O'Malley and his friends, or McDuck, yeah it is clearly the right time to sell Kershaw high. I agree. but we are owned by Guggenheim and they seem to print money out of thin air. but if Guggenheim is serious turn profit, and back to back over the lux penalties start accumulating, it is plausible.

again, quoting Branch Rickey,"It is better to sell a player a year too early than a year too late"

if we package Kershaw and Grandal together, I bet we can dump off Gonzo's money and still get value in return.

There is no moving Adrian he has a NTC so unless we are trading him to Angels which makes no sense for them or SD again makes no sense for them he won't waive his NTC.

[Neddy]

Greg Holland declines $15 million option.
My guess is he wants years. I wonder what this means for Brandon Morrow's market???

I think I prefer Morrow but I would not mind having Holland setup Mariano 2.0.

Both? I don't think i can justify that much salary being spent on the bullpen though.

Holland won't come here no matter the contract we offer he wants to be a closer and someone will pay him like one.

As for Morrow I'm not entirely sure I want him back. Morrow was great I won't deny that but he sucked in Triple A before we called him up midseason and his arm is a ticking time bomb. He was quite fun to watch down the stretch last season but I really don't think he can repeat the year he had again. I also think some team might be stupid enough to offer Morrow a closers job.

knowing Dave, he will do as much as he can to keep Maeda our 5th starter, to give him a chance to make his incentives. I personally think it is best for the team to consider him to be a setup man, or right handed bats specialist middle reliever. but with him on our rotation, it will be

Kershaw
Hill
Wood
Maeda ( in 4th slot, since Urias is coming back from injury and is still a kid, but by the end of the season, he will be the 5th man)
Ryu to start, then Urias taking over.

two of Ryu / Urias / McCarthy will become injury replacements.

despite all the hype and hope, this leaves Buehler out of the contention for a spot in our rotation.

how about giving this kid a chance to be that 8th inning setup man? in fact, I am not against trying Urias out as a set up man as well. it might be good to limit their innings and pitch counts for the season while one is coming right off of TJS and the other only a year removed from it and both are under the age of 25.

reversely in order,

C - Jansen
setup - Urias
setup - Buehler
middle - every pre-arbitration and arbitration eligible arms

then our rotation would be

Kershaw ( will miss a month )
Hill ( will miss 2 months, just hoping him and Kershaw are taking their time off separately )
Wood ( should give him a month off a half way through so his velocity remains at the end of the year )
McCarthy ( hope he doesn't fall apart like before mentally when other guys are taking time off )
Ryu ( a full year removed from shoulder and elbow issues. I fully expect him to come out swinging from the start to inflate his value on a contract year )
Maeda. ( will be a relief comes post season again)

just another mental exercise.