Fultz vs. Tatum: What do you think now?

[jmr07019]

I've been very impressed with Tatum's 3 point shooting and defense and to a lesser degree his defensive rebounding. I figured those things would come in time but didn't think he would shoot so well so early. His rebounding is sufficient right now but I think when he adds some muscle the next couple of years that will improve.

[FlatearthZorro]

I've been very impressed with Tatum's 3 point shooting and defense and to a lesser degree his defensive rebounding. I figured those things would come in time but didn't think he would shoot so well so early. His rebounding is sufficient right now but I think when he adds some muscle the next couple of years that will improve.

When he played the 4 he was a good rebounder ~8. Now he's a 3, and he's at 6.3. It's not sufficient, it's actually way above average for a 6'9 200 pounds kid. He figures to be ~10 boards a game PF if he developes the way he's supposed to.

[ConstableGeneva]

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Not sure what Fultz has done so far.

[VeryMuchWoke]

How is the recent play of Tatum relevant to the skepticism of Ainge's statements that he had Tatum #1 on his boards back in May?

Because in drafting the goal is to get the best player available.

[stretch]

Sixers fans who are skeptical that Ainge had Tatum ranked so high, aren't privy to what we know and what we've learned over the years

If you watch the introductory press conference, it was clear that the Celtics had inside information and had been scouting Tatum up close for a long time. Danny did the brain typing on both Tatum and Fultz. The co-owner's son (Pags' kid) played on the Duke team with Tatum. And while Danny loved Fultz, it's so clear that Brad Stevens had his reservations from all the leaked reports, and helped move the needle. Fultz will be fine but this whole deal is so Auerbachian it's not even funny.

Don't forget that Danny made the quote pre-draft (that the guy we want at 1 will still be there at 3)

[DarkAzcura]

There is no way 70% of the forum liked the trade at the time. Felt like 95% of us were melting down when we traded down and saw the protections on the future pick.

Maybe the lurkers liked Tatum and the extra pick. We will never know.

The like for the trade had to do with who the pick was. I was a big Tatum fanboy pre-draft, but I had my doubts that Tatum was Ainge's guy. Happy he was, and because of that, I was happy with the trade.

I still had Fultz above Tatum, though, I didn't think the difference was gigantic.

[Baller1234a]

According to Philly fans Tatum will be Robert Covington or a medium classes Rudy Gay but Fultz will be a 2 way star.

[sam_I_am]

I still believe Danny when he says top 7 guys are interchangeable. I know he liked Tatum best but he would have been happy with Fultz, DSJ, Isaacs, Jackson, etc. That is what made the trade such a good one. If Lakers took Tatum 2,Danny believes he would have got a great talent at 3 anyway. I bet he would have considered trying to trade #3 with Sacramento to get 5 and 10 if Markennen or Smith we’re still there at 10.

[Kolkmania]

How is the recent play of Tatum relevant to the skepticism of Ainge's statements that he had Tatum #1 on his boards back in May?

Because in drafting the goal is to get the best player available.

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

[SmartWentCrazy]

How is the recent play of Tatum relevant to the skepticism of Ainge's statements that he had Tatum #1 on his boards back in May?

Because in drafting the goal is to get the best player available.

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

Him trading out of the first spot is a pretty big indication that Fultz wasn’t #1 on his board. Immediately following the trades completion, he worked out Tatum for a second time— this is a strong indication of whom he had at #1.

This isn’t directed at you, Kolk, as you’re a tremendous poster, but a large portion of Philly fans loved to play the ‘Ainge can’t draft’ card while simultaneously denying that he had Tatum at 1. You can’t slam Ainge as a bad drafter for taking non-consensus picks while also disbelieving that he likely had a non-consensus guy atop his board. It’s logically inconsistent and done to make themselves feel better about the trade.

As I said on the GB, this trade has a chance to be a win-win if Fultz develops as expected pre-draft. Ainge definitely won the trade, but trades are not zero sum and BC still can win too.

[Kolkmania]

Because in drafting the goal is to get the best player available.

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

Him trading out of the first spot is a pretty big indication that Fultz wasn’t #1 on his board. Immediately following the trades completion, he worked out Tatum for a second time— this is a strong indication of whom he had at #1.

This isn’t directed at you, Kolk, as you’re a tremendous poster, but a large portion of Philly fans loved to play the ‘Ainge can’t draft’ card while simultaneously deny that he had Tatum at 1. You can’t slam Ainge as a bad drafter for taking non-consensus picks while also disbelieving that he likely had a non-consensus guy atop his board. It’s logically inconsistent and done to make yourself feel better for the trade.

As I said on the GB, this trade has a chance to be a win-win if Fultz develops as expected pre-draft. Ainge definitely won the trade, but trades are not zero sum and BC still can win too.

Oh he could have Tatum rated as the 1st in last draft, but the trade made sense even if he was 3rd or 4th on his board. It's not Tatum for Fultz, it's Fultz for a player which fit better from position standpoint, PLUS another likely top 5 pick. Him flying to the west coast desperately trying to get a meeting with Josh Jackson is a sign that it wasn't a clear-cut choice.

To me the whole Tatum #1 on his board talks seem like a typical PR thing which every GM says after a trade.

I'm not a typical Philly fan since I'm from Europe and therefore not raised and indoctrinated with deep hatred for any franchise from Boston haha. Ainge is certainly not scared to draft players which are ranked lower by the consensus, that's for sure, and I personally grade Danny Ainge as an average/slightly above average drafter.

Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum look like good picks, but last All-Star was Paul Pierce? Traded Joe Johnson really early, so don't think it's fair to count him.

[Baller1234a]

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

Him trading out of the first spot is a pretty big indication that Fultz wasn’t #1 on his board. Immediately following the trades completion, he worked out Tatum for a second time— this is a strong indication of whom he had at #1.

This isn’t directed at you, Kolk, as you’re a tremendous poster, but a large portion of Philly fans loved to play the ‘Ainge can’t draft’ card while simultaneously deny that he had Tatum at 1. You can’t slam Ainge as a bad drafter for taking non-consensus picks while also disbelieving that he likely had a non-consensus guy atop his board. It’s logically inconsistent and done to make yourself feel better for the trade.

As I said on the GB, this trade has a chance to be a win-win if Fultz develops as expected pre-draft. Ainge definitely won the trade, but trades are not zero sum and BC still can win too.

Oh he could have Tatum rated as the 1st in last draft, but the trade made sense even if he was 3rd or 4th on his board. It's not Tatum for Fultz, it's Fultz for a player which fit better from position standpoint, PLUS another likely top 5 pick. Him flying to the west coast desperately trying to get a meeting with Josh Jackson is a sign that it wasn't a clear-cut choice.

To me the whole Tatum #1 on his board talks seem like a typical PR thing which every GM says after a trade.

I'm not a typical Philly fan since I'm from Europe and therefore not raised and indoctrinated with deep hatred for any franchise from Boston haha. Ainge is certainly not scared to draft players which are ranked lower by the consensus, that's for sure, and I personally grade Danny Ainge as an average/slightly above average drafter.

Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum look like good picks, but last All-Star was Paul Pierce? Traded Joe Johnson really early, so don't think it's fair to count him.

Rondo

[Kolkmania]

Him trading out of the first spot is a pretty big indication that Fultz wasn’t #1 on his board. Immediately following the trades completion, he worked out Tatum for a second time— this is a strong indication of whom he had at #1.

This isn’t directed at you, Kolk, as you’re a tremendous poster, but a large portion of Philly fans loved to play the ‘Ainge can’t draft’ card while simultaneously deny that he had Tatum at 1. You can’t slam Ainge as a bad drafter for taking non-consensus picks while also disbelieving that he likely had a non-consensus guy atop his board. It’s logically inconsistent and done to make yourself feel better for the trade.

As I said on the GB, this trade has a chance to be a win-win if Fultz develops as expected pre-draft. Ainge definitely won the trade, but trades are not zero sum and BC still can win too.

Oh he could have Tatum rated as the 1st in last draft, but the trade made sense even if he was 3rd or 4th on his board. It's not Tatum for Fultz, it's Fultz for a player which fit better from position standpoint, PLUS another likely top 5 pick. Him flying to the west coast desperately trying to get a meeting with Josh Jackson is a sign that it wasn't a clear-cut choice.

To me the whole Tatum #1 on his board talks seem like a typical PR thing which every GM says after a trade.

I'm not a typical Philly fan since I'm from Europe and therefore not raised and indoctrinated with deep hatred for any franchise from Boston haha. Ainge is certainly not scared to draft players which are ranked lower by the consensus, that's for sure, and I personally grade Danny Ainge as an average/slightly above average drafter.

Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum look like good picks, but last All-Star was Paul Pierce? Traded Joe Johnson really early, so don't think it's fair to count him.

Rondo

Ah of course, great player early in his career.

[VeryMuchWoke]

How is the recent play of Tatum relevant to the skepticism of Ainge's statements that he had Tatum #1 on his boards back in May?

Because in drafting the goal is to get the best player available.

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

You're forgetting to consider the information available to those skeptical of Ainge's claim. In June it was reasonable to think "I doubt he truly has Tatum at #1 because Fultz looks so damn good in P&Rs and he's consensus number 1 for a reason. He must just like Tatum enough that the pick more than makes up the difference, and this is just about PR".

Now, given what we've seen with Fultz (struggling) and Tatum (excelling), it's more likely now than ever that he truly had Tatum ahead of Fultz. It's still very likely that Ainge had #1-#4 very closely ranked (as he apparently did the previous January), and possible Ainge still had Fultz #1. That's a defensible viewpoint. What's not defensible is Simmons25's sentiment that "Instead Ainge literally fell onto a 4 leaf clover and they now try and convince themselves and the rest of the world that Tatum was Ainge's target all along."

I should have used the word "dismissive" instead of skeptical. One can be reasonable and still skeptical that Ainge had Tatum at #1, but not dismissive.

[Kolkmania]

Because in drafting the goal is to get the best player available.

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

You're forgetting to consider the information available to those skeptical of Ainge's claim. In June it was reasonable to think "I doubt he truly has Tatum at #1 because Fultz looks so damn good in P&Rs and he's consensus number 1 for a reason. He must just like Tatum enough that the pick more than makes up the difference, and this is just about PR".

Now, given what we've seen with Fultz (struggling) and Tatum (excelling), it's more likely now than ever that he truly had Tatum ahead of Fultz. It's still very likely that Ainge had #1-#4 very closely ranked (as he apparently did the previous January), and possible Ainge still had Fultz #1. That's a defensible viewpoint. What's not defensible is Simmons25's sentiment that "Instead Ainge literally fell onto a 4 leaf clover and they now try and convince themselves and the rest of the world that Tatum was Ainge's target all along."

I should have used the word "dismissive" instead of skeptical. One can be reasonable and still skeptical that Ainge had Tatum at #1, but not dismissive.

I agree with every part you said, except the bolded above and that's why I responded. If Tatum tore his ACL after Rozier's reckless alley-oop he wouldn't have excelled. However, that doesn't do anything to the order Ainge ranked those prospects in May(!), same for Fultz struggling due to suddenly being unable to shoot.

[3D Chess]

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ok.....

[SmartWentCrazy]

Him playing really well in October and November has nothing to do with Ainge's observations and information he had back in May.

Him trading out of the first spot is a pretty big indication that Fultz wasn’t #1 on his board. Immediately following the trades completion, he worked out Tatum for a second time— this is a strong indication of whom he had at #1.

This isn’t directed at you, Kolk, as you’re a tremendous poster, but a large portion of Philly fans loved to play the ‘Ainge can’t draft’ card while simultaneously deny that he had Tatum at 1. You can’t slam Ainge as a bad drafter for taking non-consensus picks while also disbelieving that he likely had a non-consensus guy atop his board. It’s logically inconsistent and done to make yourself feel better for the trade.

As I said on the GB, this trade has a chance to be a win-win if Fultz develops as expected pre-draft. Ainge definitely won the trade, but trades are not zero sum and BC still can win too.

Oh he could have Tatum rated as the 1st in last draft, but the trade made sense even if he was 3rd or 4th on his board. It's not Tatum for Fultz, it's Fultz for a player which fit better from position standpoint, PLUS another likely top 5 pick. Him flying to the west coast desperately trying to get a meeting with Josh Jackson is a sign that it wasn't a clear-cut choice.

To me the whole Tatum #1 on his board talks seem like a typical PR thing which every GM says after a trade.

I'm not a typical Philly fan since I'm from Europe and therefore not raised and indoctrinated with deep hatred for any franchise from Boston haha. Ainge is certainly not scared to draft players which are ranked lower by the consensus, that's for sure, and I personally grade Danny Ainge as an average/slightly above average drafter.

Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum look like good picks, but last All-Star was Paul Pierce? Traded Joe Johnson really early, so don't think it's fair to count him.

So you expect him to work out no one else? What if the Lakers suprised everyone and took Tatum— they should take a guy they’ve never met with?

[Banks2Pierce]

From context clues, it looks like they had Tatum 1A and Jackson 1B and Jackson definitely had major consideration.

[jmr07019]

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ok.....

God gave Markelle 2 hands for a reason. Get out there and make em

Seriously what the hell is going on in Philly.

[ConstableGeneva]

Ainge made a mistake yet again. Doesn't he remember this...?

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