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Political Roundtable Part XVI

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dckingsfan
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#141 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 8, 2017 9:15 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I think this is more correct than all the other interpretations of why Trump won. That and Hillary lost it with a bad campaign.

But the natural rebound to this is: sh*t, this guy really sucks. I wanted him to kick-ass but I didn't want him to make America look really bad. And he hasn't moved his agenda forward like he promised.

And that then sticks to the Rs. How it comes out is that Rs then don't come out and vote - kind of like what happened with HRC (only much worse).

And now the rebound back to the Ds. But... we will just rebound back to the Rs unless the DNC and Democratic leadership on a federal level figures it out.

At this point, it's far more important that the Dems have it figured out at the state and local level, rather than the federal level, because that's where the battles will be fought in 2018. Yes, it will be important that the DNC is stronger and more effective than it has been, but the real work/winning will take place at the grass-roots level, like it did in Virginia yesterday.

The great voter turnout for Dem candidates in Virginia is a reflection of what happens when the Dems have their act together at the state and local level.

I half agree with you - it will be key to do well at a local level. But we see what happens when a party totally screws up at the federal level - the Trump affect if you will.

If the DNC continues to screw up or if the Ds approval rates continue to plummet due to the perception of Ds in the Senate/House - the local level will be constrained.

Kind of like flying an airplane - if you only focus on airspeed - bad things happen.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#142 » by Pointgod » Wed Nov 8, 2017 9:58 pm

Meanwhile in the upside down world of Fox News.....

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#143 » by Benjammin » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:32 pm

Wizardspride wrote:The Democrats are killing it...IN VIRGINIA of all places.

Even I underestimated the loathing of Trump.

That comment shows a lack of knowledge of Virginia and its demographics.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#144 » by Wizardspride » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:34 pm

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/08/donald-trump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800


“Everybody I talk to,” he said, “realizes it’s not Trump who’s dragging his feet. Trump’s probably the most diligent, hardest-working president we’ve ever had in our lifetimes. It’s not like he sleeps in till noon and goes golfing every weekend, like the last president did.”

I stopped him, informing him that, yes, Barack Obama liked to golf, but Trump in fact does golf a lot, too—more, in fact.

Del Signore was surprised to hear this.

“Does he?” he said.

“Yes,” I said.

He did not linger on this topic, smiling and changing the subject with a quip. “If I was married to his wife,” Del Signore said, “I don’t think I’d go anywhere.”

He added: “Some of these things are like that thing he said to Billy, Billy Bob, Billy Bud”—searching, unsuccessfully, for the name Billy Bush—“on the bus, that comment he made.” Del Signore shrugged. “He’s a human male. I’m glad he wasn’t saying, ‘Hey, I like little boys.’ You know? So he’s not perfect.”

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#145 » by Wizardspride » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:36 pm

Benjammin wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:The Democrats are killing it...IN VIRGINIA of all places.

Even I underestimated the loathing of Trump.

That comment shows a lack of knowledge of Virginia and its demographics.

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I'm aware of VA's demographics. :)

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#146 » by Benjammin » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:37 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Benjammin wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:The Democrats are killing it...IN VIRGINIA of all places.

Even I underestimated the loathing of Trump.

That comment shows a lack of knowledge of Virginia and its demographics.

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I'm aware of VA's demographics. :)
Well then your comment must have been in jest.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#147 » by Benjammin » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:37 pm

Benjammin wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Benjammin wrote:That comment shows a lack of knowledge of Virginia and its demographics.

Sent from my XT1575 using RealGM mobile app

I'm aware of VA's demographics. :)
Well then your comment must have been in jest.

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And I missed the sarcasm, my bad.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#148 » by Wizardspride » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:43 pm

Benjammin wrote:
Benjammin wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:I'm aware of VA's demographics. :)
Well then your comment must have been in jest.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
And I missed the sarcasm, my bad.

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No, my comment wasn't in jest.

I'm not surprised about Gillespie getting destroyed in NOVA but no one was expecting what happened with the lesser races.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#149 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:46 pm

Pointgod wrote:So you mean to tell me that Clinton is some criminal mastermind that colluded with Russia but is too incompetent to actually use any of the made up dirt? This has got to be the stupidest talking point from the right wing news. Not to mention the timing of this is suspicious as hell after indictment Monday last week.

Meanwhile we have direct evidence that Trump's team directly met with Russian operatives that offered dirt on Clinton and mention STOLEN emails yet no one from the Trump team goes to the authorities. You have to be on some serious dope to believe this.



like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#150 » by verbal8 » Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:03 am

dckingsfan wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:"I hate all you jerks. I'm voting for whoever promises to go in and kick as much ass as possible." And he's doing it. He's being a bull in a china shop and that's what his mandate was.

I think this is more correct than all the other interpretations of why Trump won. That and Hillary lost it with a bad campaign.



One key to Trumps victory was he got voters who hated both to vote for him.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#151 » by dckingsfan » Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:38 am

@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#152 » by montestewart » Thu Nov 9, 2017 3:03 am

dckingsfan wrote:@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html

I do. Lumping tax dodge foundations in with House of Ruth, Manna Inc., So Others Might Eat, etc. hurts charities while likely just chasing rich people on to the next tax dodge. The charitable deduction allows me to give more, and I act on that incentive. I think the solution lies more in better definition and regulation of charities, so they are actually channeling the bulk of contributions (say, 85% or more) to recipients from year to year, rather than sheltering wealth, self-granting lavish compensation, or otherwise failing.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#153 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Nov 9, 2017 3:12 am

montestewart wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html

I do. Lumping tax dodge foundations in with House of Ruth, Manna Inc., So Others Might Eat, etc. and hurts charities while likely just chasing rich people on to the next tax dodge. The charitable deduction allows me to give more, and I act on that incentive. I think the solution lies more in better definition and regulation of charities, so they are actually channeling the bulk of contributions (say, 85% or more) to recipients from year to year, rather than sheltering wealth, self-granting lavish compensation, or otherwise failing.


that's just not true at all. while it might be easier to just donate to the united way the average % of your donation that makes it to the end charity in need is about 7.5%

so you send $100 bucks and 7 dollars makes it to the person in need. I understand the ease of it.

but you are truly better off just doing your own thing for free. For example I write off nearly $350,000 in dentistry annually at my south side practice. I help directly whether it be a massive discount or just work for free. and my recipients receive 100% of my donation.

get involved folks. do your own thing. You will feel much better about it and you will actually help so much more.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#154 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Nov 9, 2017 7:32 am

dckingsfan wrote:@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html


great article DCkings. great article. read this and understand this folks. read many more articles about this stuff.

being honest for a second...what i cant stand is self congratulatory weekend warrior social justice crusaders like Zonker comes of as, Pointgod, and many others on here think we need a revolt against trumps poor folk. farm boys and small town undereducated types. all based on complete identity politics garbage. because people like the rockefellors have forever and ted turner, now aol/time, and Bezos influence the media to such a degree that they have the proletariat chasing each others tails for pennies. literally fighting over the scraps.

while the billionaires of the world are allowed to hide their wealth overseas and even here in broad daylight in trusts and foundations.

its a compete effing joke!! you want a revolution??? You want to effect real change?? You want to actually level the playing field???

there is the "bad guys." Their they are !! in broad effing daylight. Instead of worshipping their greedy asses why dont you clowns get your heads out of your asses and figure out where the bad guy sleeps. and go get his damn money!!!!

1. tax all existing wealth upon death over $20 million at 95%...including trusts and foundations upon the death of the original founder. at current dollar valuations, no one needs more than $20Million. All you end up with is people like H.wienstein, R kelly, and kevin spacey who lord their status over those less fortunate. Tax them!!!!! get that money back!! $20M is plenty. heck. $2 million is plenty. more than plenty. and I'd gladly give up 80% of what Ive worked my ass off to acquire so long as you go get everyone else's money too. everyones!!


2. tax all corporate owned wealth. anything above $400 Million. tax it at 95% and make them distrubute the wealth each year to the owner. make it so they cant hold with in corporate holdings. Just like and S-corp passthrough. make all C-corps work the same. Apple is sitting on $350 Billion right effing now!!!!! Why????? because they make a damn cell phone!!!?? are you guys insane to let the go???????? why would you guys think some dumb **** in alabama that believes in God and marriage is between a man and women...why would you make that dumb **** public enemy #1 and let Paul Allen slide? Let Bill Gates slide? let penny pritzker slide? Why!!!!

You libs on here are lost. lost!! completely lost. You are soooooo lost its a crisis of self discovery. You dont understand how this country works. you dont understand that the media exists as a tool of th ewealthy elite ruling class to confuse you and keep you dumb so you dont wake up and seize their wealth. CNN has successfully convinced you guys into thinking your broke dick, dumb **** hillbilly neighbor with even less than you down the street is the enemy. Joe the plumber's assistant!!! thats the bad guy??

you guys need to understand the beginnings of banking. the middle ages of banking. and finance. and learn how banking and finance have taken over every single monarch, oligarchy, democracy, capitalist, socialist, marxist, everything. everywhere. everyone. everything comes down to money. THE MONEY SUPPLY. International Bankers financed the entire UNited states growth and expansion. where do you think we got the damn money!!??? Printed it?? ha!! international bankers worked vie their agenst to out law the US' ability to print its own moeny. so we borrow it. where did BOA and Chase get their money in the early 20th century??? Think about it. Internaitonal bankers! who via constrictions and releases of the money supply have taken over every single form of government. brought them all to their knees. the most successful capitalists all began with credit. Early, In the US, all of that credit eventually came from rothschild banks and their agents which became JP morgan (chase, john d rockefeller (boa), and a couple others (wells and citi) . These 4 horsemen of banking own the big 4 in oil along with barclays and bank of london(rothschild) Duetche (also rothschild). and from their they finance almost everything else. No surprise they all survived the banking crisis and are all flush with cash. nearly all of these successful businessmen/capitalist became bankers or investment bankers. all of their wealth went into trusts. and these bankers combined with others own the big 6 in media.

the current group of billionaires companies were all financed by the investment banking arms of these big 4. adding in a couple other like Goldman, UBS and others. These investment banking houses own as much as 90% of some of these major tech corps. and on the low end 10-15% they will eventually merge with these existing bankers. and other conglomerates. see standard oil, NBC, GE merger. these massive corporate holdings are less about individuals but the corporate holdings, influence both media and money eventually fully control your mind, your thoughts, your economy, your money supply, your everything. they control you. they own. you. your thoughts are not your own. you need to understand who the real enemy is.

/rant. sorry not editing. tired of preaching to the deaf. wake up folks!
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#155 » by montestewart » Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:51 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
montestewart wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html

I do. Lumping tax dodge foundations in with House of Ruth, Manna Inc., So Others Might Eat, etc. and hurts charities while likely just chasing rich people on to the next tax dodge. The charitable deduction allows me to give more, and I act on that incentive. I think the solution lies more in better definition and regulation of charities, so they are actually channeling the bulk of contributions (say, 85% or more) to recipients from year to year, rather than sheltering wealth, self-granting lavish compensation, or otherwise failing.


that's just not true at all. while it might be easier to just donate to the united way the average % of your donation that makes it to the end charity in need is about 7.5%

so you send $100 bucks and 7 dollars makes it to the person in need. I understand the ease of it.

but you are truly better off just doing your own thing for free. For example I write off nearly $350,000 in dentistry annually at my south side practice. I help directly whether it be a massive discount or just work for free. and my recipients receive 100% of my donation.

get involved folks. do your own thing. You will feel much better about it and you will actually help so much more.

As usual, you really don't seem to know what you're talking about, as you ignored 90% of my point in order to give your own point a veneer of substance, though (again, as usual) it never actually rebutted what I wrote. I trust that dck will have a more thoughtful response.

You need to read posts more carefully and write brief and to-the-point responses rather than meandering, preachy, presumptuous ones that routinely mischaracterize objective facts and posters' positions, change the subject, aggrandize yourself, and don't seem to contribute to thoughtful discussion. I don't want to think that this is the type of behavior that's behind you posting here and not on your own Bulls board.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#156 » by dckingsfan » Thu Nov 9, 2017 3:18 pm

montestewart wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html

I do. Lumping tax dodge foundations in with House of Ruth, Manna Inc., So Others Might Eat, etc. hurts charities while likely just chasing rich people on to the next tax dodge. The charitable deduction allows me to give more, and I act on that incentive. I think the solution lies more in better definition and regulation of charities, so they are actually channeling the bulk of contributions (say, 85% or more) to recipients from year to year, rather than sheltering wealth, self-granting lavish compensation, or otherwise failing.

Okay - you make a good point. But, once you have a carveout it is near to impossible to regulate those charities. If we want a fair tax code - we are going to have to limit some of those deductions, right?

Healthcare carveout in the 30s led to the mess we are in. Real Estate careveout has led to a huge mess - and folks like Trump that leveraged it. Charitable deduction - same.

Every good tax deed seems to have a bigger blowback in terms of tax fairness. Worse, our tax code no longer incents capital to chase growth - and that imperils the entire infrastructure.

I know - I am lecturing. But you know the next election is going to be about tax fairness without actually taking on tax fairness.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#157 » by Pointgod » Thu Nov 9, 2017 3:19 pm

Yeah the way to show those billionaires is to eliminate the estate tax and make them even richer!

The sooner that people drop putting their faith in conmen and snake oil salesmen like Trump the better it will be. Trump is not a savior for anyone and embodies everything that people like SD20 claim to be against.

If Trump voters truly give a damn about improving their lives they would vote for Progressive candidates, but that comes with equal rights for women, minorities and lgbtq. It also requires Trump voters to stop getting all worked up about Muslims, immigrants and athletes kneeling.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#158 » by dckingsfan » Thu Nov 9, 2017 3:48 pm

@point - was that a response to my post or just a rant? You know I am not a Trump fan.

And progressives haven't been all that - a lot of their policies have led to worse situations for those they are trying to help.

But I guess that would be getting into the weeds of policy discussions vs. the easy tribal discussions - they are evil and we are good - regardless of our actual policies.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#159 » by Pointgod » Thu Nov 9, 2017 5:02 pm

dckingsfan wrote:@point - was that a response to my post or just a rant? You know I am not a Trump fan.

And progressives haven't been all that - a lot of their policies have led to worse situations for those they are trying to help.

But I guess that would be getting into the weeds of policy discussions vs. the easy tribal discussions - they are evil and we are good - regardless of our actual policies.


Nope that was in response to STDs inane rant. I try to avoid quoting him if I can help it. If he wants to go after billionaires and money in offshore tax havens then voting for Progressive policies will move the needle because neither Republicans nor more Center Democrats will close those loopholes. My point is that for those that really want to go after billionaires, supporting Trump to put it frankly is stupid because he is the swamp. However if people can get over their predujices and vote for Progressive candidates they can make some of the economic changes that they wrongly think Trump will champion.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#160 » by montestewart » Thu Nov 9, 2017 5:12 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
montestewart wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:@Monte - still like those charitable donations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/offshore-tax-havens.html

I do. Lumping tax dodge foundations in with House of Ruth, Manna Inc., So Others Might Eat, etc. hurts charities while likely just chasing rich people on to the next tax dodge. The charitable deduction allows me to give more, and I act on that incentive. I think the solution lies more in better definition and regulation of charities, so they are actually channeling the bulk of contributions (say, 85% or more) to recipients from year to year, rather than sheltering wealth, self-granting lavish compensation, or otherwise failing.

Okay - you make a good point. But, once you have a carveout it is near to impossible to regulate those charities. If we want a fair tax code - we are going to have to limit some of those deductions, right?

Healthcare carveout in the 30s led to the mess we are in. Real Estate careveout has led to a huge mess - and folks like Trump that leveraged it. Charitable deduction - same.

Every good tax deed seems to have a bigger blowback in terms of tax fairness. Worse, our tax code no longer incents capital to chase growth - and that imperils the entire infrastructure.

I know - I am lecturing. But you know the next election is going to be about tax fairness without actually taking on tax fairness.

Not discounting the tax issue, but there are numerous smaller scale charities that actually turn the vast majority (85%+, not 7%) of contributions into goods/services. In the age of Trump, public subsidies to these charities are already being cut (I've seen it with the House of Ruth) and removal of the tax deduction would almost certainly result in further reduction of income. Just voicing my concern regarding charities that I know do good and cost effective work.

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