Markelle Fultz Discussion II

[Negrodamus]

I've never questioned if Fultz was the right fit for us. It has always been the means to get him. Losing a potential top pick in this upcoming draft or the next draft would be pretty devastating to just move up for Fultz. If we traded last year's pick and the Lakers pick for an equivalent of Thunder's James Harden, that's a completely different conversation.

This current situation with Fultz is just making this experience so much worse though. Not seeing him play is planting more seeds of doubt within the fan base.

[PLO]

I've never questioned if Fultz was the right fit for us. It has always been the means to get him. Losing a potential top pick in this upcoming draft or the next draft would be pretty devastating to just move up for Fultz. If we traded last year's pick and the Lakers pick for an equivalent of Thunder's James Harden, that's a completely different conversation.

This current situation with Fultz is just making this experience so much worse though. Not seeing him play is planting more seeds of doubt within the fan base.

If there are a lot of "what ifs" asked by us fans in future years about the trade up as has happened with the Okafor pick it means Fultz busts or we miss on a superstar with the lost pick. We shouldn't realistically be asking those questions though at least until the date of the next draft lottery with another college season under our belts.

[PhilasFinest]

I've never questioned if Fultz was the right fit for us. It has always been the means to get him. Losing a potential top pick in this upcoming draft or the next draft would be pretty devastating to just move up for Fultz. If we traded last year's pick and the Lakers pick for an equivalent of Thunder's James Harden, that's a completely different conversation.

This current situation with Fultz is just making this experience so much worse though. Not seeing him play is planting more seeds of doubt within the fan base.

I hear you and agree to an extent.....but then again, If that pick is landing us the Okafor of the class, well then it will be worthwhile if Fultz can heal up and play up to his potential.

[Mik317]

The Lakers have no reason to tank this year...so I doubt Boston even gets their pick and barring lottery luck, it would be 4-6. Lot of season left of course but the Mavs and Bulls seem to be locks at being bottom 2. The Suns don't look like they are going to try to win anytime soon (especially if they get Jah...lololololololol). The Kings vets are washed and their youth is stupid young. The Hawks have a hole to dig out of. And the Nets are going to have to work super hard for every win this year. That's 5-6 teams the Lakers have to be worse than....without any actual value in doing so.

[TeamHigh]

Fultz has a more well-rounded game, but I don't think he was anywhere near the scoring prospect Beal was.

Collegiate point totals aren't as important as where they're scoring their points.

Bradley Beal: 35% of shots at the rim, 47% of shots beyond the arc
Markelle Fultz: 25% of shots at the rim, 29% of shots beyond the arc

Fultz lived in the mid-range.

Where they're getting their shots depends hugely on the college/coach/system. It's better to look at Fultz's PPP on shots from different zones of the floor.

Also, considering how much Washington's offense consisted of "give it to Fultz", it's really no surprise that he took a lot of midrange jumpers.

[ivysixer2000]

The issue with getting Tatum is that we're still left with a dearth of guard talent on our roster. You can argue that Fultz wasn't the right pick but you can't argue about picking that position. Fultz, Fox, DSJ, Frank N or Mitchell were the players we had to target with a top 10 pick (I don't consider Ball a true one guard). The next draft is not exactly flush with great guard prospects. You either draft a really good guard prospect now or overpay for someone whose ceiling we already know about in terms of being championship caliber like Lowry.

This is the most overlooked part of this whole conversation, and I'm sure BC had to have thought about it. There just isn't any real elite guard talent in the next draft, and the Lakers have no reason to lose right now, all they want to do is look good for their fans.

Heck, most teams don't let elite guards just walk cause you need elite guard play in this league now to even think about winning a ring. Having Bayless, JJ, TJ and such, while I like them as role players, they are nowhere near elite guard talent. Fultz gives us that chance to actually have a versatile elite guard who can eventually guard the opposing lead guard. Plus him showing us he could basically get anywhere he wanted on the court with one arm and not shooting at all should say plenty about his talent, along with the unexpected defensive upside he displayed.

Him getting hurt bothers people, but if we could wait on Jojo and Ben, we can wait on Fultz for a while. Truth is we need an elite guard that can guard the point, not another forward like Tatum. There are alot better forwards than Tatum available in free agency next summer but no elite point guards with the versatility to play off the ball....harder to find. I'd rather wait on Fultz, and look at Bron or Cousins next summer than get Tatum....and its not close.

[76ciology]

I’ll say this. You look at how well Bayless and TJ fit BB’s system right? Mix them together and add length and upside, you get Fultz.

[76ciology]

Yeah he had very little exposure so far but I find the criticisms of his weak mid range and weak defense game being shattered with how he has showcased his defense, playmaking and attacking to the rim.

Lets say you are playing as a one man offense. You cant keep forcing your way inside as a PG because of zone defense and to conserve your energy. Nevertheless, if you want him to be relentless in attacking to the rim, I think he has shown that he can.

[gdog2004]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

[Unbreakable99]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

[gdog2004]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

Well that is true. Ben can run point but I thought the idea was to have Markelle run point sometimes with Ben in the game and when he is out but I guess that's why you have TJ. You can see the difference in personality between TJ and Markelle. From day one TJ has been a general. He's not as talented as Markelle but he definitely is in command out there. Experience will help. And fixing his shoulder/jump shot. He isnt the same high level prospect without that shot.

[OleSchool]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

Did someone hack your account?

[Slartibartfast]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

Lillard and Kyrie both had lower APG and AST% than Fultz in college. Beal and McCollum weren't even close.

Fultz is a PNR specialist - he is far, far more like Kyrie or Lillard than he is Beal. It boggles my mind that you could watch him at Washington and think of him as an off-ball guy. The guy led his conference in assist% and spent half of his possessions in PNR where he was elite. Just because he can shoot doesn't make him Beal.

That doesn't mean he can't work with Simmons - you can have two high volume ball-handlers sharing the court, like Phoenix did with Nash and Diaw in 05/06 or my Celtics used to do with Rondo and Pierce.

[Negrodamus]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

Lillard and Kyrie both had lower APG and AST% than Fultz in college. Beal and McCollum weren't even close.

Fultz is a PNR specialist - he is far, far more like Kyrie or Lillard than he is Beal. It boggles my mind that you could watch him at Washington and think of him as an off-ball guy. The guy led his conference in assist% and spent half of his possessions in PNR where he was elite. Just because he can shoot doesn't make him Beal.

That doesn't mean he can't work with Simmons - you can have two high volume ball-handlers sharing the court, like Phoenix did with Nash and Diaw in 05/06 or my Celtics used to do with Rondo and Pierce.

He said "AST%" and "Fultz" in the same sentence.

[LloydFree]

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

Lillard and Kyrie both had lower APG and AST% than Fultz in college. Beal and McCollum weren't even close.

Fultz is a PNR specialist - he is far, far more like Kyrie or Lillard than he is Beal. It boggles my mind that you could watch him at Washington and think of him as an off-ball guy. The guy led his conference in assist% and spent half of his possessions in PNR where he was elite. Just because he can shoot doesn't make him Beal.

That doesn't mean he can't work with Simmons - you can have two high volume ball-handlers sharing the court, like Phoenix did with Nash and Diaw in 05/06 or my Celtics used to do with Rondo and Pierce.

He said "AST%" and "Fultz" in the same sentence.

I stop reading posts when I see prospect's Ast% and TO% mentioned.

[Slartibartfast]

Lillard and Kyrie both had lower APG and AST% than Fultz in college. Beal and McCollum weren't even close.

Fultz is a PNR specialist - he is far, far more like Kyrie or Lillard than he is Beal. It boggles my mind that you could watch him at Washington and think of him as an off-ball guy. The guy led his conference in assist% and spent half of his possessions in PNR where he was elite. Just because he can shoot doesn't make him Beal.

That doesn't mean he can't work with Simmons - you can have two high volume ball-handlers sharing the court, like Phoenix did with Nash and Diaw in 05/06 or my Celtics used to do with Rondo and Pierce.

He said "AST%" and "Fultz" in the same sentence.

I stop reading posts when I see prospect's Ast% and TO% mentioned.

It's not an entirely useless metric. When comparing apples to apples it can indicate how much of a playmaking burden someone is shouldering.

By any metric, Fultz at UW was more of an on-ball player and playmaker than Beal is now, much less Beal as a freshman.

[Unbreakable99]

As someone who has coached basketball here is what I see from Fultz.
PROS Good handle, smooth movement, long, has all the tools to defend, good body control.
CONS - Good not great athleticism. No outside game (hopefully due to shoulder).
My biggest issue with Fultz is, the PG is generally a floor general. I dont see that personality from Fultz.
I also am not sure how much of his issues are nerves and how much is injury.
Because his expression never changes, he's hard to read. When Embiid called him a "shy kid" that does not invoke confidence that he can orchestrate an offense effectively. But he's young and people do evolve over time. But those are my only issues.

With Ben he doesn't have to run point. I saw Fultz more as a combo guard and not a lead guard coming out of college anyway. I see him less Lillard and Kyrie and more McCollum or Beal as far as playing off ball more and not run the team. As long as he can get right and shoot 3 pointers efficiently I hope he can get to the level of McCollum as a player. I think he's a better prospect than McCollum and is taller so I hope he becomes better but at this point just reaching McCollum is the first goal I hope he reaches.

Lillard and Kyrie both had lower APG and AST% than Fultz in college. Beal and McCollum weren't even close.

Fultz is a PNR specialist - he is far, far more like Kyrie or Lillard than he is Beal. It boggles my mind that you could watch him at Washington and think of him as an off-ball guy. The guy led his conference in assist% and spent half of his possessions in PNR where he was elite. Just because he can shoot doesn't make him Beal.

That doesn't mean he can't work with Simmons - you can have two high volume ball-handlers sharing the court, like Phoenix did with Nash and Diaw in 05/06 or my Celtics used to do with Rondo and Pierce.

Beal seems more catch and shoot than Fultz. Fultz is a combo guard meaning he can play on or off the ball. We have Ben to run point. I don’t foresee Fultz just standing around waiting for the ball to be passed to him so he can stand there and shoot. He can’t shoot as good as Beal. He should be able to play similar to McCollum though. We just need a wing who can create their own shot and drive. Hopefully Fultz can do that at a high level.

[Kobblehead]

Beal was never a PG, but he has morphed into a catch and shoot guy to accommodate Wall. He can still take dudes off the dribble and get to the rim whenever he wants to. He's shown that in the postseason.

At Florida, Beal was a slasher with a jumper. I think he was a way better scoring prospect than Markelle Fultz.

[cksdayoff]

Read on Twitter

fultz some how still averaged 6 assists per game, and their offense was actually better than the year before

[Ryuzaki]

He is unquestionably going through an injury phase and he will also be unquestionably good when he's healthy. He's the type of player that will be taking our game winning shots going forward. His ability to handle the ball and shoot off the dribble is unlike any other in this draft class. People are freaking out and underestimating him all of a sudden and it's only going to be that much sweeter when he's back and balling. Tatum is nice, but he's a corner 3 specialist lol. We already have RoCo for that role. Fultz has Harden (without the flopping) potential.