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Markelle Fultz Discussion II

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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1321 » by Sasashi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:42 pm

BullyKing wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:Why wouldn’t people want to admit that a player is playing well? I don’t understand that.

He was universally considered a top 5 pick in a pretty flat draft 1-10 talent wise.

It would be more surprising if he wasn’t playing well just like it is somewhat surprising that Ball is struggling.


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I think it’s obvious why they wouldn’t want to admit it. He plays for a rival in the Celtics is the main reason. Then Fultz is “hurt” and not playing now which compounds that. Then BC trading a great asset to move up which could potentially be a player just as good or maybe worse than Tatum adds to that. That’s why Bodner put on twitter the other day of fans would still do that trade today and many people got mad. When you combine all that it’s easy to see why some don’t want to admit Tatum is playing very well.


It is so ridiculous watching you wrap yourself in Tatum as if he was the prospect you've been talking about nonstop. You are so confident that you are a scouting wizard that you have 100% confidence in your opinion of Fultz yet appear to have missed horribly on Lonzo. So does that make you question whether your opinion of Fultz might be wrong as well? Nope, you just pretend like it was Tatum you wanted this entire time.


in Unbreakable's mind Lonzo ball is still the best player from 2017 draft and it will be a matter of time until he becomes a superstar.
The motive is pretty clear, he hates the trade up so much that he will find any way to discredit it.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1322 » by LongLiveHinkie » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:47 pm

Mik317 wrote:you know damn well if Fultz was shooting under 30% from the field, him being top 10 in any category would not be enough for you to not hate him.

I get not liking a prospect but at the very least be consistent with all prospects. This is why it looks like you have an agenda. You all could be very much correct w/ Fultz. This **** with his shoulder aside, he has not had a great start and could very much flame out and be a bust. I think only the most homerish of us would deny that....again I was a big Fox/Jackson guy, so yeah I get it going up for a guy who may not be better than what we could have gotten at 3 could suck big time...especially if we ended up helping out the Celtics of all teams in the process. I get the angst over that (think its bit premature but whatever). What I don't get is the goal post moving to justify the constant hatred of a player on your favorite team when at the end of the day the two guys most pumped up in regards to Fultz also have major hurdles to overcome and have not done so in this admittedly short set of games. The fact that people have moved on to Tatum as their "see told you so" guy is just sad at this point considering he might have been one of the few guys from that top bunch that barely anyone talked about predraft. There is a weird double standard going on to justify continuing to be super down on Fultz...instead of giving him the same benifit of the doubt one would give any other rookie. Ball's shot will totally start falling...but Fultz? No he's a finished product fo sho. How bout we all wait and see what happens and let go of our preconceived notions about what is going to happen and let it actually happen for once? There are plenty of things happening right now to talk about than constantly harping on and on about what could be. You guys are getting mad about **** that has not happened yet as if it is currently happening. For all we know Ayton could bomb in college, the Lakers pick ends up at 10 or some ****, and Fultz turns out pretty good. The fact that some are almost hoping for the worst case scenario is just sad


That's what people with an agenda do. It's what they always do. Contrarians want attention... it's why they're contrarians in the first place. Otherwise it would defeat its own purpose of being one.

All of these "arguments" are so hypocritical and revisionist history, it's honestly just sad, embarrassing, and borderline trolling. If Fultz was healthy and having the type of season Ball was having, not only would people be critical, Colangelo and Fultz would be eviscerated for being the biggest idiot GM and biggest draft pick bust in the history of the franchise.

It's really embarrassing to the board and makes our fans look bad. Fultz could return healthy average 20 ppg, and some dork will try to argue that they are "empty points" and he's not really having the type of impact on the team that Lonzo Ball and his 25% shooting percentage are having.

I don't think I've ever ignored a poster on the decade+ I've been part of this board, but an entire campaign just to troll and promote contrarianism is making me damn close. I can handle loons, but when it turns every topic into a redundant argument, the discussion and the content here suffers.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1323 » by Sasashi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:53 pm

Mik317 wrote:Tatum has been really good for a 19 year old. Anyone who denies that is a hater.

THAT being said, it is hilarious to see the flip floppers using him as a tool to once again bash Fultz. I remmeber the exact line being "at least Ainge wasted the pick on Tatum". The anti Fultz brigade was super high on Ball, Jackson and even Smith before Tatum...Tatum was barely mentioned outside of Negrodamus. This whole "oh there was 6 guys all along" **** is revisionist history at best...and even if that was the case Tatum was not high on that list of 6. Some of yall have a hard time coming to grips that maybe just maybe you aren't the amazing flawless draft gurus you act like and maybe your take on Fultz was wrong too.
its sad at this point, when you got fools going " well Ball shooting under 30% isn't that bad doe".


Do better


Yup exactly right....

Unbreakable loved and still loves Ball, and it was clear he was his number one choice and made clear that he will be a superstar talent in the NBA up to this day.

Lloydfree clearly stated multiple times the 2 best players in the 2017 draft were Ball and Jackson and those 2 were the potential elite players from the draft and stated that the rest could become decent to good players, but the potential superstar elite players were only Ball and Jackson.

Both are anti fultz.....but the funny thing is even if their draft choices are not looking so hot right now, they are still ADAMANT that Fultz trade up was a mistake. No 2nd thoughts such as " well maybe since I could be off on Ball/Jackson, I could be wrong on Fultz too".

The jury is still out on all these players, but the thing is these 2 act like the Red Auerbach's MENTORS.

Just imagine if Ball and Jackson were tearing up the NBA right now....this thread would be OWNED, TRADEMARKED, COPYRIGHTED by Unbreakble and Lloydfree with countless self post quotes from around Draft time.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1324 » by spikeslovechild » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:Here is the problem with all this Tatum talk Ainge said after the trade the player we took at three would likely be the player we took at one. They were high on Tatum. Jackson already had an agreement with PHX and didn't want to play behind Brown and BOS hundred wings.

They controlled the process. The idea that if we just stuck at 3 we could have taken Tatum is stupidity. They knew we wanted Fultz. They knew the Lakers wanted Fultz. The one who didn't make the trade would have ended up with Ball or Jackson. Not Tatum.


You keep saying Ainge was going to trade the pick. Yes the Sixers and Lakers talked to Ainge. It doesn’t mean a trade had to be done. Yeah Woj said the Lakers wanted Fultz if they traded up but I think that’s what he was fed. If the Lakers and Sixers made Ainge pick we would have been better off. What really makes my skin crawl is we gave Ainge a great pick that has a greater than 50% chance of going to the Celtics and they may take Bamba or Bagley or Ayton. That alone made the trade atrocious for us. If Fultz and Tatum cancel each other out then those other prospects make it a clear win for Boston. I don’t see how people don’t see that. If Boston doesn’t trade the pick they just take Tatum number one and we still end up with Fultz because the Lakers would take Ball. I just hate incompetent GMing. BC really messed up. How will you all feel just handing a rim protector to Boston to complete their team? This is the worst trade ever. I say that because we gave our rival who we need to go through a final piece. I would have still hated the trade had we trade up with a team in the western conference but it wouldn’t be as bad. Still an awful trade but you wouldn’t be handing a conference rival a clear win in the trade.


Greater than 50% wtf? Listen man it's bad enough that you spend all day whining about the trade don't also just make odds up.


Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Colangelo say Ainge approached him regarding a trade?
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1325 » by Unbreakable99 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:05 pm

Sasashi wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Tatum has been really good for a 19 year old. Anyone who denies that is a hater.

THAT being said, it is hilarious to see the flip floppers using him as a tool to once again bash Fultz. I remmeber the exact line being "at least Ainge wasted the pick on Tatum". The anti Fultz brigade was super high on Ball, Jackson and even Smith before Tatum...Tatum was barely mentioned outside of Negrodamus. This whole "oh there was 6 guys all along" **** is revisionist history at best...and even if that was the case Tatum was not high on that list of 6. Some of yall have a hard time coming to grips that maybe just maybe you aren't the amazing flawless draft gurus you act like and maybe your take on Fultz was wrong too.
its sad at this point, when you got fools going " well Ball shooting under 30% isn't that bad doe".


Do better


Yup exactly right....

Unbreakable loved and still loves Ball, and it was clear he was his number one choice and made clear that he will be a superstar talent in the NBA up to this day.

Lloydfree clearly stated multiple times the 2 best players in the 2017 draft were Ball and Jackson and those 2 were the potential elite players from the draft and stated that the rest could become decent to good players, but the potential superstar elite players were only Ball and Jackson.

Both are anti fultz.....but the funny thing is even if their draft choices are not looking so hot right now, they are still ADAMANT that Fultz trade up was a mistake. No 2nd thoughts such as " well maybe since I could be off on Ball/Jackson, I could be wrong on Fultz too".

The jury is still out on all these players, but the thing is these 2 act like the Red Auerbach's MENTORS.

Just imagine if Ball and Jackson were tearing up the NBA right now....this thread would be OWNED, TRADEMARKED, COPYRIGHTED by Unbreakble and Lloydfree with countless self post quotes from around Draft time.


False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1326 » by Sasashi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:08 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
Sasashi wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Tatum has been really good for a 19 year old. Anyone who denies that is a hater.

THAT being said, it is hilarious to see the flip floppers using him as a tool to once again bash Fultz. I remmeber the exact line being "at least Ainge wasted the pick on Tatum". The anti Fultz brigade was super high on Ball, Jackson and even Smith before Tatum...Tatum was barely mentioned outside of Negrodamus. This whole "oh there was 6 guys all along" **** is revisionist history at best...and even if that was the case Tatum was not high on that list of 6. Some of yall have a hard time coming to grips that maybe just maybe you aren't the amazing flawless draft gurus you act like and maybe your take on Fultz was wrong too.
its sad at this point, when you got fools going " well Ball shooting under 30% isn't that bad doe".


Do better


Yup exactly right....

Unbreakable loved and still loves Ball, and it was clear he was his number one choice and made clear that he will be a superstar talent in the NBA up to this day.

Lloydfree clearly stated multiple times the 2 best players in the 2017 draft were Ball and Jackson and those 2 were the potential elite players from the draft and stated that the rest could become decent to good players, but the potential superstar elite players were only Ball and Jackson.

Both are anti fultz.....but the funny thing is even if their draft choices are not looking so hot right now, they are still ADAMANT that Fultz trade up was a mistake. No 2nd thoughts such as " well maybe since I could be off on Ball/Jackson, I could be wrong on Fultz too".

The jury is still out on all these players, but the thing is these 2 act like the Red Auerbach's MENTORS.

Just imagine if Ball and Jackson were tearing up the NBA right now....this thread would be OWNED, TRADEMARKED, COPYRIGHTED by Unbreakble and Lloydfree with countless self post quotes from around Draft time.


False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.


What I meant to say was that you and lloydfree are anti fultz TRADE.....which you both clearly are.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1327 » by Unbreakable99 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:09 pm

Sasashi wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
Sasashi wrote:
Yup exactly right....

Unbreakable loved and still loves Ball, and it was clear he was his number one choice and made clear that he will be a superstar talent in the NBA up to this day.

Lloydfree clearly stated multiple times the 2 best players in the 2017 draft were Ball and Jackson and those 2 were the potential elite players from the draft and stated that the rest could become decent to good players, but the potential superstar elite players were only Ball and Jackson.

Both are anti fultz.....but the funny thing is even if their draft choices are not looking so hot right now, they are still ADAMANT that Fultz trade up was a mistake. No 2nd thoughts such as " well maybe since I could be off on Ball/Jackson, I could be wrong on Fultz too".

The jury is still out on all these players, but the thing is these 2 act like the Red Auerbach's MENTORS.

Just imagine if Ball and Jackson were tearing up the NBA right now....this thread would be OWNED, TRADEMARKED, COPYRIGHTED by Unbreakble and Lloydfree with countless self post quotes from around Draft time.


False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.


What I meant to say was that you and lloydfree are anti fultz TRADE.....which you both clearly are.


That is true.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1328 » by PLO » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:13 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
Sasashi wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Tatum has been really good for a 19 year old. Anyone who denies that is a hater.

THAT being said, it is hilarious to see the flip floppers using him as a tool to once again bash Fultz. I remmeber the exact line being "at least Ainge wasted the pick on Tatum". The anti Fultz brigade was super high on Ball, Jackson and even Smith before Tatum...Tatum was barely mentioned outside of Negrodamus. This whole "oh there was 6 guys all along" **** is revisionist history at best...and even if that was the case Tatum was not high on that list of 6. Some of yall have a hard time coming to grips that maybe just maybe you aren't the amazing flawless draft gurus you act like and maybe your take on Fultz was wrong too.
its sad at this point, when you got fools going " well Ball shooting under 30% isn't that bad doe".


Do better


Yup exactly right....

Unbreakable loved and still loves Ball, and it was clear he was his number one choice and made clear that he will be a superstar talent in the NBA up to this day.

Lloydfree clearly stated multiple times the 2 best players in the 2017 draft were Ball and Jackson and those 2 were the potential elite players from the draft and stated that the rest could become decent to good players, but the potential superstar elite players were only Ball and Jackson.

Both are anti fultz.....but the funny thing is even if their draft choices are not looking so hot right now, they are still ADAMANT that Fultz trade up was a mistake. No 2nd thoughts such as " well maybe since I could be off on Ball/Jackson, I could be wrong on Fultz too".

The jury is still out on all these players, but the thing is these 2 act like the Red Auerbach's MENTORS.

Just imagine if Ball and Jackson were tearing up the NBA right now....this thread would be OWNED, TRADEMARKED, COPYRIGHTED by Unbreakble and Lloydfree with countless self post quotes from around Draft time.


False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.


Fultz is OK but he'll never come close to Ball's hockey-assist % or #infectious-passing %........

Just a side-note: this thread is gold. :D
LakersDynasty14 wrote:Lonzo Ball is literally on a Hall of Fame trajectory at this point. This thread is so full of fail.


shakes0 wrote:I hope they put Simmons on Trae. He'll foul him out by the 3rd quarter. plus Simmons can't stay in front of Trae. No one can.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1329 » by Unbreakable99 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:20 pm

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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1330 » by cksdayoff » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:25 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.


Unbreakable99 wrote:Our GM is a buffoon. I’m going to cringe if I see Ayton wearing Celtic green. BC did this. That dummy should have stayed at 3. Fultz probably is there at 3 anyway. When Fultz is healthy folks will be out of excuses for reasons why he isn’t as good as Tatum or Fox or DSJ or Ball or others. That’s why I want him to shoot right. Everyone will be out of excuses for this kid and see he the buffoon GM botched this draft.


Image

(also if ayton is the top prospect in the draft then boston has no shot at getting him)
#failforfultz
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1331 » by Unbreakable99 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:52 pm

cksdayoff wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.


Unbreakable99 wrote:Our GM is a buffoon. I’m going to cringe if I see Ayton wearing Celtic green. BC did this. That dummy should have stayed at 3. Fultz probably is there at 3 anyway. When Fultz is healthy folks will be out of excuses for reasons why he isn’t as good as Tatum or Fox or DSJ or Ball or others. That’s why I want him to shoot right. Everyone will be out of excuses for this kid and see he the buffoon GM botched this draft.


Image

(also if ayton is the top prospect in the draft then boston has no shot at getting him)


What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1332 » by cksdayoff » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:02 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:
What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?


you want fultz to be 100% healthy AND bust just so you can call BC an idiot. no, you're not anti-fultz at all
#failforfultz
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1333 » by Ericb5 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:05 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:False. I’m not anti-Fultz. This is a narrative people are trying to say I am. I have said over and over I liked Fultz as a prospect.


Unbreakable99 wrote:Our GM is a buffoon. I’m going to cringe if I see Ayton wearing Celtic green. BC did this. That dummy should have stayed at 3. Fultz probably is there at 3 anyway. When Fultz is healthy folks will be out of excuses for reasons why he isn’t as good as Tatum or Fox or DSJ or Ball or others. That’s why I want him to shoot right. Everyone will be out of excuses for this kid and see he the buffoon GM botched this draft.


Image

(also if ayton is the top prospect in the draft then boston has no shot at getting him)


What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?


You just contradicted yourself.

You said that you aren’t anti Fultz, but then you said that he was worse than Tatum, Fox, Ball, and Smith, as well as others.

That is by definition an anti fultz position.

It’s one thing to be against trading up for him, but you actually wouldn’t have taken him in the top 5 at least.

For a player that most people thought was the best prospect(not me actually, but most people did) not even taking him in the top 5 means that you have a very poor opinion of him. I would just own it, and say that you are anti Fultz because you are.


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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1334 » by LloydFree » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:06 am

cksdayoff wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?


you want fultz to be 100% healthy AND bust just so you can call BC an idiot. no, you're not anti-fultz at all

Fultz can be 100℅ healthy and not be a bust, and Colangelo is still an idiot for trading up to take him.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1335 » by Ericb5 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:18 am

LloydFree wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?


you want fultz to be 100% healthy AND bust just so you can call BC an idiot. no, you're not anti-fultz at all

Fultz can be 100℅ healthy and not be a bust, and Colangelo is still an idiot for trading up to take him.


He also can grow into an all star and the best compliment to our two franchise players in the draft. In which case the trade will have made sense.

You seem to be locked in the asset acquisition mode mindset where you have to do everything possible to maximize your chance at a star.

From 2013-2016 the trade wouldn’t have made sense. In 2017 it could.


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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1336 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:21 am

Paying a premium like that might have had a shot at being validated had Markelle had rare maturity and rare NBA readiness for a 19-20 year old. He's kind of deficient in those two areas, though, unfortunately.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1337 » by LloydFree » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:28 am

Kobblehead wrote:Paying a premium like that might have had a shot at being validated had Markelle had rare maturity and rare NBA readiness for a 19-20 year old. He's kind of deficient in those two areas, though, unfortunately.

Paying a premium like that makes sense if the player had rare NBA tools and/or athleticism. Fultz doesn't have either. If he did, I wouldn't have cared if he traded three #1 overall picks for him.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1338 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:32 am

cksdayoff wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?


you want fultz to be 100% healthy AND bust just so you can call BC an idiot. no, you're not anti-fultz at all


I don’t need that. I already know BC lost the trade.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1339 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:34 am

Ericb5 wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:


Image

(also if ayton is the top prospect in the draft then boston has no shot at getting him)


What are you hmmming about? Why did you quote me? What did I say that was incorrect?


You just contradicted yourself.

You said that you aren’t anti Fultz, but then you said that he was worse than Tatum, Fox, Ball, and Smith, as well as others.

That is by definition an anti fultz position.

It’s one thing to be against trading up for him, but you actually wouldn’t have taken him in the top 5 at least.

For a player that most people thought was the best prospect(not me actually, but most people did) not even taking him in the top 5 means that you have a very poor opinion of him. I would just own it, and say that you are anti Fultz because you are.


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I ranked Fultz 3rd. Right now Fox Tatum Markennen Kuzma and DSJ have played better than him. And I think Ball is the better prospect. There’s no contradiction.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion II 

Post#1340 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:36 am

LloydFree wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Paying a premium like that might have had a shot at being validated had Markelle had rare maturity and rare NBA readiness for a 19-20 year old. He's kind of deficient in those two areas, though, unfortunately.

Paying a premium like that makes sense if the player had rare NBA tools and/or athleticism. Fultz doesn't have either. If he did, I wouldn't have cared if he traded three #1 overall picks for him.


Yup. When there are about 6 prospects very close in talent you don’t give your rival a great asset and potentially get a worse player as well. But then again Ainge wouldn’t have traded the pick of Fultz was really the best prospect.

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