DeAndre Ayton

[ItsThatEasy]

Is he really close to 7'1?

He has crazy mobility for his size

On an insider UA site it was mentioned he measured 6'11" without shoes.

Which makes him 7'1 officially, if you measure every NBA player without shoes they'll all drop about an inch and half.

Compared to other players official listed heights he's every bit 7'1.

[GimmeDat]

KP and KAT are jumpshooters first and foremost with great athleticism to compliment.

Ayton is a dominant inside C that has a jump-shot to compliment. Similar to Embiid.

Point being, I don't think it needs to be as good the aforementioned players, just serviceable, and Ayton's is that and more. With his size you don't want him falling in love with the jumpshot too much. That being said, it's good but can be great if he adjusts that arc.

The only concern I have is with his off-ball defense/awareness. I'm completely sold otherwise. #1.

dominant inside Centers aren't important man, and Embiid faces up a ton plus has a ton of size on Ayton, he is bigger, and more skilled

KP and KAT can shoot it in so many ways, plus they can put it on the floor and create their own shot, Ayton isnt close to that.

I don't see the upside for him to go nº1 and he is likely 5th or 6th on my board now.

If that was the case, then his physical dominance would count for zilch.

I use the Embiid comparison as an example, because he has legit range out to 3, but he's not dependent on his jumper to have an effective offensive game. Going on last seasons numbers, he got to the line 11 times per 36, hitting on 78%, he physically dominates his way to many rebounds and points in the paint, and he uses his pure size and length to protect the rim.

They're all things done on the interior that Ayton can replicate.

Embiid's jumper makes the defense respect him on face ups, helps him play off ball, trail the play, etc., but it's not his bread and butter. It's very good, but not elite, as with Ayton.

KP and KAT are more versatile and higher level shooters, but that's more their games. They are highly athletic, but they are not the dominant physical presences that Embiid or Ayton are. There is absolutely value in a guy that can manhandle any NBA big physically, and the fact that he does he a well rounded skill-set beyond that, and he's mobile for his size all just add to the appeal.

[DirtyDez]

Is he really close to 7'1?

He has crazy mobility for his size

On an insider UA site it was mentioned he measured 6'11" without shoes.

Which makes him 7'1 officially, if you measure every NBA player without shoes they'll all drop about an inch and half.

Compared to other players official listed heights he's every bit 7'1.

It makes him 7' or 7'1" unofficially. Officially he's 6'11". Just arguing semantics

[prime1time]

KP and KAT are jumpshooters first and foremost with great athleticism to compliment.

Ayton is a dominant inside C that has a jump-shot to compliment. Similar to Embiid.

Point being, I don't think it needs to be as good the aforementioned players, just serviceable, and Ayton's is that and more. With his size you don't want him falling in love with the jumpshot too much. That being said, it's good but can be great if he adjusts that arc.

The only concern I have is with his off-ball defense/awareness. I'm completely sold otherwise. #1.

dominant inside Centers aren't important man, and Embiid faces up a ton plus has a ton of size on Ayton, he is bigger, and more skilled

KP and KAT can shoot it in so many ways, plus they can put it on the floor and create their own shot, Ayton isnt close to that.

I don't see the upside for him to go nº1 and he is likely 5th or 6th on my board now.

While your analysis isn't necessarily wrong you completely misjudge where the NBA is headed. If you're going to compete in this NBA, you need a big man who can anchor an elite DEFENSE, move with guards on the perimeter and not be a complete liability defensively. Both KP and KAT are great scorers, but defensively there's a chance that they will never be good enough which puts both of their teams in a major bind. If I'm building a team and I can take a guy like Ayton, I take him without thinking twice. It is easier to find scorers in this league than potential elite defenders. You take the player Ayton will be 5-7 years from now and put him on the current Wizards or Celtics...They have a chance to compete with the Warriors. I haven't seen a better physically looking center prospect than young Shaq. His presence is physically imposing. People might not want to hear it but defense wins championships. How are you going to stop players like Giannis and Ben Simmons from converting at the rim? That's why Ayton has a legit case for being #1.

[agentofatlas]

KP and KAT are jumpshooters first and foremost with great athleticism to compliment.

Ayton is a dominant inside C that has a jump-shot to compliment. Similar to Embiid.

Point being, I don't think it needs to be as good the aforementioned players, just serviceable, and Ayton's is that and more. With his size you don't want him falling in love with the jumpshot too much. That being said, it's good but can be great if he adjusts that arc.

The only concern I have is with his off-ball defense/awareness. I'm completely sold otherwise. #1.

dominant inside Centers aren't important man, and Embiid faces up a ton plus has a ton of size on Ayton, he is bigger, and more skilled

KP and KAT can shoot it in so many ways, plus they can put it on the floor and create their own shot, Ayton isnt close to that.

I don't see the upside for him to go nº1 and he is likely 5th or 6th on my board now.

While your analysis isn't necessarily wrong you completely misjudge where the NBA is headed. If you're going to compete in this NBA, you need a big man who can anchor an elite DEFENSE, move with guards on the perimeter and not be a complete liability defensively. Both KP and KAT are great scorers, but defensively there's a chance that they will never be good enough which puts both of their teams in a major bind. If I'm building a team and I can take a guy like Ayton, I take him without thinking twice. It is easier to find scorers in this league than potential elite defenders. You take the player Ayton will be 5-7 years from now and put him on the current Wizards or Celtics...They have a chance to compete with the Warriors. I haven't seen a better physically looking center prospect than young Shaq. His presence is physically imposing. People might not want to hear it but defense wins championships. How are you going to stop players like Giannis and Ben Simmons from converting at the rim? That's why Ayton has a legit case for being #1.

KP seems fine defensively. He struggles a bit in space but he can definitely shut down the paint.

As for Ayton, I’d becareful throwing Shaq as a comparison. Offensively I don’t think he has the same touch. Defensively, I don’t know what to think yet. Will he be able to cover as well in space? Even Gobert struggles with it. What makes you think he’ll be better?

[No-Man]

Ayton isn't that type of guy on D, he's "fine" in PnR and switching, but his awareness when he is not guarding a guy on ball, and his help defense are really poor, he also guesses all the time, you can tell that the guy doesnt have a feel for defense whatsoever.

[agentofatlas]

Ayton isn't that type of guy on D, he's "fine" in PnR and switching, but his awareness when he is not guarding a guy on ball, and his help defense are really poor, he also guesses all the time, you can tell that the guy doesnt have a feel for defense whatsoever.

Then what is he good for then? Offensively I don’t think he’ll reach the highs of Porzingis, Towns or maybe even Embiid.

[No-Man]

Ayton isn't that type of guy on D, he's "fine" in PnR and switching, but his awareness when he is not guarding a guy on ball, and his help defense are really poor, he also guesses all the time, you can tell that the guy doesnt have a feel for defense whatsoever.

Then what is he good for then? Offensively I don’t think he’ll reach the highs of Porzingis, Towns or maybe even Embiid.

like I said he feels like a solid big on O, likely not as good as those guys but good with his size, touch, ability to stretch even if only as a standstill big (not a shooter on the move or in iso), and athleticism plus some passing and a versatile big on D, likely not a monster shot-blocker but can be a factor if he is there, same with the boards, his best attributes on D are switchability as a Center and PnR D so far.

personally I think he is similar to Pau Gasol, little less fluid with the ball, more athletic obviously, similar impact overall if the passing is real, although reaching Pau's levels passing is doubtful and Gasol is bigger and longer than him, albeit less mobile.

something between Pau and Myles Turner maybe? as an optimistic point of view.

[Dresden]

"How are you going to stop players like Giannis and Ben Simmons from converting at the rim? That's why Ayton has a legit case for being #1."

But I don't see that type of shot blocker or defender with Ayton. Maybe it will develop, but right now, he doesn't look springy enough or quick enough off his feet. He'll be a good defender of the paint just because of the space he'll eat up and his reach, but I don't think he'll be a David Robinson type shot blocker.

[GimmeDat]

I think Ayton is going to be the worst defender out of the top bigs. A very high bar, for sure, but the awareness lets him down.

It seems unlikely that he'll reach his potential on that end as a result, but that doesn't mean his physical traits won't give him a degree of inherent value on that end.

[The Master]

It seems unlikely that he'll reach his potential on that end as a result, but that doesn't mean his physical traits won't give him a degree of inherent value on that end.

Yes, it's hard to disagree, this is what I wrote after exhibition game against New Eastern Mexico - people will be disappointed because he's not dominant rim protector, but he still has tools to be great defender on normal basis (individual D, pnr D, switches). But you're right, he probably won't reach level that maybe he should considering his athletic potential.

I thought today this was his best match in terms of numbers of shots contested, he was still late but more active generally.

3/5 from midrange today.

[yoyoboy]

I think Ayton is going to be the worst defender out of the top bigs. A very high bar, for sure, but the awareness lets him down.

It seems unlikely that he'll reach his potential on that end as a result, but that doesn't mean his physical traits won't give him a degree of inherent value on that end.

I can agree with Bamba turning into the better defender, but Bagley? I don't know, Bagley doesn't project to be a good defender at all in my opinion. He has an 8'9 standing reaching, which is a whole 6 inches shorter than Ayton's. And an inch shorter than LeBron's. He's skinner and smaller framed than a guy like Ayton which makes him a lot less physically imposing. And his instincts on defense look worse, too. I can see Bagley being superior when it comes to switching onto guards due to his better mobility, but Ayton will be better at everything else. I just have a hard time seeing Bagley not being a defensive liability when in the NBA. And him having 0 blocks through 2 games so far compared to Ayton's 5 only increases my confidence in that.

[CptCrunch]

I think Ayton is going to be the worst defender out of the top bigs. A very high bar, for sure, but the awareness lets him down.

It seems unlikely that he'll reach his potential on that end as a result, but that doesn't mean his physical traits won't give him a degree of inherent value on that end.

I can agree with Bamba turning into the better defender, but Bagley? I don't know, Bagley doesn't project to be a good defender at all in my opinion. He has an 8'9 standing reaching, which is a whole 6 inches shorter than Ayton's. And an inch shorter than LeBron's. He's skinner and smaller framed than a guy like Ayton which makes him a lot less physically imposing. And his instincts on defense look worse, too. I can see Bagley being superior when it comes to switching onto guards due to his better mobility, but Ayton will be better at everything else. I just have a hard time seeing Bagley not being a defensive liability when in the NBA. And him having 0 blocks through 2 games so far compared to Ayton's 5 only increases my confidence in that.

Effective defense is really not determined by length btw. Length helps but you can defend without length. Just because other prospects are physical freaks, doesn't make a 7'0" wingspan bad or inadequate now.

For bigs, defense is all about:

1. Iso defense and roll defense. This is determined by your lateral quickness and athleticism.
2. PnR defense, defensive switching. This is determined by basketball IQ and defensive awareness. If you don't develop this early, you'll probably never develop this.
3. Post defense, can you challenge shots with vertical without being brush aside, can you maintain post position? This is determined by core length and lower body strength.

[GimmeDat]

I think Ayton is going to be the worst defender out of the top bigs. A very high bar, for sure, but the awareness lets him down.

It seems unlikely that he'll reach his potential on that end as a result, but that doesn't mean his physical traits won't give him a degree of inherent value on that end.

I can agree with Bamba turning into the better defender, but Bagley? I don't know, Bagley doesn't project to be a good defender at all in my opinion. He has an 8'9 standing reaching, which is a whole 6 inches shorter than Ayton's. And an inch shorter than LeBron's. He's skinner and smaller framed than a guy like Ayton which makes him a lot less physically imposing. And his instincts on defense look worse, too. I can see Bagley being superior when it comes to switching onto guards due to his better mobility, but Ayton will be better at everything else. I just have a hard time seeing Bagley not being a defensive liability when in the NBA. And him having 0 blocks through 2 games so far compared to Ayton's 5 only increases my confidence in that.

It's definitely possible Ayton ends up better than Bagley (Bamba is the clear defensive #1), but I wouldn't dismiss Bagley too early, I believe he had a really strong defensive reputation coming up to college. We'll learn more when we get a better grip for what Bagley's best position is as well. I think he's super young and looking a tad bit lost, but it's early, he has a lot of tools to be a really strong piece on that end, and while he's not the longest guy, the quick twitch jumping/2nd jump ability will help him make an impact as a shot blocker.

Definitely have to see more from both guys. Fwiw Ayton is my #1 overall at the moment, just think he'll be a bit behind defensively.

[Dresden]

I'd say Ayton has a higher ceiling than Bagley, because of his size, but if I had to pick which one of the two was more likely to be the better nba player, I'd go with Bagley. I could see Ayton having a Robert Parrish type career- which is still a great career, but Parrish was never a franchise type player, or MVP candidate. I think Bagley's motor, athleticism, and quickness make him someone that almost for sure will be a very good player at the next level. And if he develops an outside shot to go with that, he could be a top 10 talent.

[DirtyDez]

Ayton had the Kwame hands tonight. With three rotation players coming back from injury/suspension I'd expect him to be more aggressive on D going forward.

[thr3ep01nte4]

KAT skill with Embiid body. Baring injuries, he is going to be phenomenal in the NBA.

[Marcus]

He'll be the consensus number one by the end of the season. Should be already. I feel like I'm missing something because I just don't get how someone like Bagley is seen as even close to Ayton. A 7'1 athletic manchild with great post positioning ability, excellent passing out of the post, a good looking stroke, nice touch around the basket, and an ability to run the floor that's unheard of for his size.

I already know that Nets pick is going to finish like 6th, Ayton will go one and become the next generational big man, Bamba will be off the board and be a future DPOY contender, and the Cavs will end up picking someone like Wendell Carter or Jaren Jackson.

NO!!! you will NOT disrespect the great name of one Wendell Carter Jr. that man is a saint sir!!! SAINT!!!

[Marcus]

From what I've seen in these first two games. The patience after the catch is there which I like. He did have some issues catching the ball in game 2 but I don't think it's a legit concern going forward more of an anomaly. Rebounding is very nice, does a good job of rooting position and going up to get them. Still a little lazy on the defensive rotations at times almost Kevin Love esque where he's not challenging in order to grab a board instead, not saying he should be block hunting but not rotating just to keep prime rebound real estate is a no no for someone with his size and bounce. Still taking shots in the flow, passing is there, post game is decent but I think he's going to have to develop counters and be reactionary instead of almost thinking through his moves first. Had a couple travels in the first game trying to back into a defender because he needed to feel a body on him.

I really like how effective he's been whilst not having to have the ball each possession. Showing he can be effective with or without being the focal point which I think bodes well going forward. I need his motor to stay strong all season. He has to be engaged. Right now I still have him first.

[CptCrunch]

Watch on YouTube

;feature=youtu.be

1. Dude looks like David Robinson out there playing against high school kids.

2. I don't like the butter fingering this game. Stone hands is an instant prospect killer. We shall see throughout the season.

3. His second jump seems questionable. Catches the ball, takes forever to finish under the basket, doesn't finish strong.