Bring Morris off the Bench?

Shanghai Kid · Post #1 » by **Shanghai Kid** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:39 pm

As expected, our starting line-up with Oubre is performing really well.

Morris off the bench instantly improves our depth and the bench unit could run the offense through him.

Morris in the starting line-up gives us size and possibly more defense.

What would you go with?

Post #2 » by **nate33** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:50 pm

I'd start Morris, but sit him after the first 5-6 minutes so that he can come in again with the 2nd unit. That will also get Oubre on the floor pretty early so he can still play 28-30 minutes despite not starting. Basically, treat Oubre like San Antonio used to treat Ginobili.

I think continuing to start Morris would be good for his ego, and encourage him play harder. I'm not worried about Oubre's energy level. He'll go all out whether he starts or comes off the bench. Also, teams typically start games with more size at PF so it's better to have Morris banging against them instead of Otto or Oubre.

So basically, the forward rotation goes like this:

0-6 minutes: Porter/Morris
6-10 minutes: Oubre/Porter
10-17 minutes: Oubre/Morris
17-19 minutes: Porter/Morris
19-24 minutes: Oubre/Porter
*Repeat in 2nd half*

Total minutes:
Porter: 34
Morris: 30
Oubre: 32

Also Morris is available in the last 5 minutes to sub out for Gortat if we want to go with super small ball down the stretch.

J-Ves · Post #3 » by **J-Ves** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:58 pm

I say start Morris. As long as Brooks realizes our best lineup is Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/One of our centers or Morris, then it doesn’t really matter who starts. We don’t want a disgruntled Morris on our hands.

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FAH1223 · Post #4 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:05 pm

Yeah, I'd keep Morris with the starters. Oubre' energy with Wall/Gortat to close the 1st quarter and play with Morris in the 2nd with the bench should improve things.

NatP4 · Post #5 » by **NatP4** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:42 pm

here is what is going to happen, Morris is going to start on a minutes restriction and play with the bench, we are going to continue to win with Oubre playing well (because he is good) and Morris will fit nicely with the bench. Mastermind Scott Brooks is going to say "hey this is working, let's leave it"

Then Ernie is going to send Mahinmi+a 2018 1st+ Frazier to Phoenix for Eric Bledsoe, we then will use more smaller lineups with Morris at the 5 so he gets starters minutes. Satoranksy takes over the backup small forward minutes (because he is a good player), our bench becomes the best in the NBA, we win the east. We look like this and everyone lives happily ever after:

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Oubre Satoransky
Porter Morris/Scott
Gortat Morris/Smith

Post #6 » by **nate33** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:34 pm

NatP4 wrote:here is what is going to happen, Morris is going to start on a minutes restriction and play with the bench, we are going to continue to win with Oubre playing well (because he is good) and Morris will fit nicely with the bench. Mastermind Scott Brooks is going to say "hey this is working, let's leave it"

Then Ernie is going to send Mahinmi+a 2018 1st+ Frazier to Phoenix for Eric Bledsoe, we then will use more smaller lineups with Morris at the 5 so he gets starters minutes. Satoranksy takes over the backup small forward minutes (because he is a good player), our bench becomes the best in the NBA, we win the east. We look like this and everyone lives happily ever after:

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Oubre Satoransky
Porter Morris/Scott
Gortat Morris/Smith

That works for me.

The only tweak I'd make is that I wouldn't play Sato all that much - at least not in the playoff rotation. I'd slide Beal to SF for 6 or so minutes a game to make sure Bledsoe can play 30+ minutes. That frees up Morris to play a few less forward minutes and a few more center minutes.

The one other thing I'd keep an eye on is how well the team fares with Bledsoe running the point instead of Wall. If Bledsoe is really good, Wall could be traded for a high value young center before his contract balloons. That might make a lot of sense for the long term sustainability of the team. That's the kind of foresight a GM like Ainge would show.

tontoz · Post #7 » by **tontoz** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:42 pm

I am not that comfortable with Porter spending so much time at the 4. The Lakers exposed the potential problem there. He just doesn't have the size and athleticism to.match up with some 4s.

I also think it will wear him down. He is a natural 3.

NatP4 · Post #8 » by **NatP4** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:08 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:here is what is going to happen, Morris is going to start on a minutes restriction and play with the bench, we are going to continue to win with Oubre playing well (because he is good) and Morris will fit nicely with the bench. Mastermind Scott Brooks is going to say "hey this is working, let's leave it"

Then Ernie is going to send Mahinmi+a 2018 1st+ Frazier to Phoenix for Eric Bledsoe, we then will use more smaller lineups with Morris at the 5 so he gets starters minutes. Satoranksy takes over the backup small forward minutes (because he is a good player), our bench becomes the best in the NBA, we win the east. We look like this and everyone lives happily ever after:

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Oubre Satoransky
Porter Morris/Scott
Gortat Morris/Smith

That works for me.

The only tweak I'd make is that I wouldn't play Sato all that much - at least not in the playoff rotation. I'd slide Beal to SF for 6 or so minutes a game to make sure Bledsoe can play 30+ minutes. That frees up Morris to play a few less forward minutes and a few more center minutes.

The one other thing I'd keep an eye on is how well the team fares with Bledsoe running the point instead of Wall. If Bledsoe is really good, Wall could be traded for a high value young center before his contract balloons. That might make a lot of sense for the long term sustainability of the team. That's the kind of foresight a GM like Ainge would show.

agreed, Sato would be the 9th/10th rotation guy that gets squeezed in favor of 3 guard lineups, which we would obviously use alot with a guy like Bledsoe.

Imagine a Wall for Jokic+Murray swap. Wiz would never consider things like this, but it would make alot of sense.

Dat2U · Post #9 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:05 pm

tontoz wrote:I am not that comfortable with Porter spending so much time at the 4. The Lakers exposed the potential problem there. He just doesn't have the size and athleticism to.match up with some 4s.

I also think it will wear him down. He is a natural 3.

He's a matchup nightmare for bigger 4s trying to chase him around the perimeter. I think he takes better advantage of his skill than other 4s do with their brawn.

I also don't believe there are a ton of PFs that will wear him down physically.

Nance is really good and a tough matchup. Porzingis would be another. Definitely more trouble out West though.

I love the energy, athleticism & skill of the Wall, Beal, Oubre & Porter lineup. Even against a big PF, I like that lineup against most other lineups in the league.

If anything, I'd look at playing Morris more at C. That way, we'd have the athleticism where we can switch all 5 positions and not be forced into mismatches like we are with Gortat in the middle.

tontoz · Post #10 » by **tontoz** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:43 pm

He's a matchup nightmare for bigger 4s trying to chase him around the perimeter. I think he takes better advantage of his skill than other 4s do with their brawn.

Maybe that would be true if he got more touches. I am not so sure it is true with him now though. He seems to get frozen out of the offense for extended periods.

I would be more interested in using that lineup in the 4th quarter of close games rather than making it an everyday thing.

gravytrain24 · Post #11 » by **gravytrain24** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:55 pm

I think Brooks should just decide who starts based on the matchup. We all know which teams has bigger 4's or stretch 4's, so lets not just hand it over. You just have to sell that they're both getting starters minutes.

Dark Faze · Post #12 » by **Dark Faze** » Wed Nov 1, 2017 12:03 am

Dat2U wrote:
tontoz wrote:I am not that comfortable with Porter spending so much time at the 4. The Lakers exposed the potential problem there. He just doesn't have the size and athleticism to.match up with some 4s.

I also think it will wear him down. He is a natural 3.

He's a matchup nightmare for bigger 4s trying to chase him around the perimeter. I think he takes better advantage of his skill than other 4s do with their brawn.

I also don't believe there are a ton of PFs that will wear him down physically.

Nance is really good and a tough matchup. Porzingis would be another. Definitely more trouble out West though.

I love the energy, athleticism & skill of the Wall, Beal, Oubre & Porter lineup. Even against a big PF, I like that lineup against most other lineups in the league.

If anything, I'd look at playing Morris more at C. That way, we'd have the athleticism where we can switch all 5 positions and not be forced into mismatches like we are with Gortat in the middle.

Kieff is too slow to switch really. He can't get out quick on closeouts and can't defend guards on the perimeter. I don't think it's a coincidence that our defense has been better with him out.

dangermouse · Post #13 » by **dangermouse** » Wed Nov 1, 2017 3:22 am

I love the idea of moving Mahinmi (haha of course, what am i even saying?) and running Morris at backup PF/C and Smith at backup C. I think Morris should start some games when healthy though, LA showed taller/stronger/athletic PFs can just take Porters lunch money on the boards.

However with Mahinmi still on roster, can Scott play much SF? Even against the opponents bench SFs? Mahinmi/Morris/Scott/Meeks/Frazier as a 2nd unit has good spacing, better than Sato at SF even though he has superior defense, ball handling and as been shooting well. Scott is the better shooter.

NatP4 · Post #14 » by **NatP4** » Wed Nov 1, 2017 7:00 am

Brooks confirmed in an interview that Morris will start. he laughed at the idea of their being a starting PF controversy.

Nigel Tufnel · Post #15 » by **Nigel Tufnel** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:08 am

Uch. I just can't watch this guy anymore. He is the softest 4 in the league. His screens are terrible. He can't shoot although he likes to chuck it up there. And his rebounding is so weak. Both KO and Scott are better than him. Could we dump him for a draft pic or maybe another back up center?

NatP4 · Post #16 » by **NatP4** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:23 am

Oubre is averaging 12-6-1 on 43% shooting from 3, with slightly below average defense, yet only getting 24 minutes per game.

not enough

pcbothwel · Post #17 » by **pcbothwel** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:13 pm

NatP4 wrote:Oubre is averaging 12-6-1 on 43% shooting from 3, with slightly below average defense, yet only getting 24 minutes per game.

not enough

Agreed, but that doesnt necessarily mean starting him is the answer. I like Morris starting in that he is a 4th option where i worry he would be more of a chucker on the bench as a 1st option.
I also like the game developing for 7-8 minutes and if the starters are sluggish KO can come in and give a boost.
I also like him attacking offensively right now, but I dont want him taking too many shots in place of Beal / Otto.

Post #18 » by **nate33** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:56 pm

NatP4 wrote:Oubre is averaging 12-6-1 on 43% shooting from 3, with slightly below average defense, yet only getting 24 minutes per game.

not enough

Yes, but we won 4 of the 5 games since his minutes got cut. There's nothing wrong with avoiding playing extended minutes when it's not necessary. It's not like Morris is playing way too much. He is averaging just 20 minutes a game.

What's happening is that Mike Scott is playing fairly well as our 4th forward. As long as we can keep winning that way, it makes sense to play 4 forwards and keep everyone's minutes down during the regular season. Let's also not forget that we had 3 blowouts with extended garbage time when Oubre was sat in favor of Sato.

In close games, I'd like to see more minutes from Oubre. And frankly, that's what has happened. Oubre played 34 minutes in the loss to Cleveland. His next highest minute total since Morris' return was 26 minutes in a close game against Dallas (in which he didn't play very well and probably didn't deserve more minutes than that).

J-Ves · Post #19 » by **J-Ves** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Oubre is averaging 12-6-1 on 43% shooting from 3, with slightly below average defense, yet only getting 24 minutes per game.

not enough

Yes, but we won 4 of the 5 games since his minutes got cut. There's nothing wrong with avoiding playing extended minutes when it's not necessary. It's not like Morris is playing way too much. He is averaging just 20 minutes a game.

What's happening is that Mike Scott is playing fairly well as our 4th forward. As long as we can keep winning that way, it makes sense to play 4 forwards and keep everyone's minutes down during the regular season. Let's also not forget that we had 3 blowouts with extended garbage time when Oubre was sat in favor of Sato.

In close games, I'd like to see more minutes from Oubre. And frankly, that's what has happened. Oubre played 34 minutes in the loss to Cleveland. His next highest minute total since Morris' return was 26 minutes in a close game against Dallas (in which he didn't play very well and probably didn't deserve more minutes than that).

Do you think at some point the Wiz will use a 3 man forward rotation of Porter, Morris and Oubre during the regular season? Scott is playing solid ball right now, but I don't think his defense is at the level of the other three.

Post #20 » by **nate33** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:26 pm

J-Ves wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Oubre is averaging 12-6-1 on 43% shooting from 3, with slightly below average defense, yet only getting 24 minutes per game.

not enough

Yes, but we won 4 of the 5 games since his minutes got cut. There's nothing wrong with avoiding playing extended minutes when it's not necessary. It's not like Morris is playing way too much. He is averaging just 20 minutes a game.

What's happening is that Mike Scott is playing fairly well as our 4th forward. As long as we can keep winning that way, it makes sense to play 4 forwards and keep everyone's minutes down during the regular season. Let's also not forget that we had 3 blowouts with extended garbage time when Oubre was sat in favor of Sato.

In close games, I'd like to see more minutes from Oubre. And frankly, that's what has happened. Oubre played 34 minutes in the loss to Cleveland. His next highest minute total since Morris' return was 26 minutes in a close game against Dallas (in which he didn't play very well and probably didn't deserve more minutes than that).

Do you think at some point the Wiz will use a 3 man forward rotation of Porter, Morris and Oubre during the regular season? Scott is playing solid ball right now, but I don't think his defense is at the level of the other three.

I don't know. It'll be interesting as Morris rounds into shape and starts taking more minutes. Will those minutes come from Oubre or Scott? It may well be that Brooks will stick with a 4-forward rotation all the way until the playoffs. If that happens, then it's going to be real hard for Oubre to play much more than 25 or so minutes.

I'm not too worried about it though. It's not like Oubre won't continue to develop just because he's playing only 24 minutes a night instead of 32.

I'd like to see Brooks try out Oubre at SG a few more times. It worked okay when Beal was ejected from the Warriors game. Meeks sure hasn't done much so it can't hurt to try.