Pistons team stats and rankings (updated 11/9/17)

[zeebneeb]

Certain stats cannot be trusted as every player doesn't fit within those stats. Anything less then black and white with numbers is pseudo-science to me. Making a stat to fit a narrative. Works in politics but doesn't work in sports.

[7r5ur]

Didn't Kobe spend four years on the bench?

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just two I think. They traded Eddie Jones after the '98 season so he would have started in his third year

Point still stands. A HOFer didn't see significant minutes until his third year. And it wasn't because he got drafted by a lousy coach who unreservedly benched a first round draft pick for two years.

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Kobe was an All-Star his 2nd year. "Didn't see significant minutes" is a pretty big stretch. He was also 18 as a rookie and played consistently (on a good team). Kennard is 21.

[Timmaytime]

just two I think. They traded Eddie Jones after the '98 season so he would have started in his third year

Point still stands. A HOFer didn't see significant minutes until his third year. And it wasn't because he got drafted by a lousy coach who unreservedly benched a first round draft pick for two years.

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Kobe was an All-Star his 2nd year. "Didn't see significant minutes" is a pretty big stretch. He was also 18 as a rookie and played consistently. Kennard is 21.

Played 15 minutes a game his rookie year. averaged 26 minutes a game his second year. No clue how he was an all-star as he wasn't even the starter on his own team. I would guess it was either because of the voting power of the big market (did they vote all-stars in then?) or something with the Kobe/Jordan narrative.

IIRC he had a pretty hot start to that season and ended up cooling off, as well.

edit* hey! Kennard is averaging 15 minutes per game! Weird!

Also, all players are different. Kennard isn't Kobe and probably never will be. Jimmy Butler is one of the best wings in the league and he only averaged 8 minutes a game his rookie year and got a DNP-CD in half of the games that season

Temper expectations

[7r5ur]

Point still stands. A HOFer didn't see significant minutes until his third year. And it wasn't because he got drafted by a lousy coach who unreservedly benched a first round draft pick for two years.

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Kobe was an All-Star his 2nd year. "Didn't see significant minutes" is a pretty big stretch. He was also 18 as a rookie and played consistently. Kennard is 21.

Played 15 minutes a game his rookie year. averaged 26 minutes a game his second year. No clue how he was an all-star as he wasn't even the starter on his own team. I would guess it was either because of the voting power of the big market (did they vote all-stars in then?) or something with the Kobe/Jordan narrative.

IIRC he had a pretty hot start to that season and ended up cooling off, as well.

Big market, good team, exciting player is how he got in. Probably not worthy of being an all-star, but 26mpg every night is definitely significant. Reggie plays 28mpg for us this year for comparison.

The 15mpg every night + all playoff games that Kobe got at 18yrs would be the best scenario for Luke at 21. Rather than the "maybe he gets a look every handful of games" approach. Especially when someone like Reggie Bullock is getting all the rope in the world in front of him and doing nothing with it.

[Timmaytime]

Kobe was an All-Star his 2nd year. "Didn't see significant minutes" is a pretty big stretch. He was also 18 as a rookie and played consistently. Kennard is 21.

Played 15 minutes a game his rookie year. averaged 26 minutes a game his second year. No clue how he was an all-star as he wasn't even the starter on his own team. I would guess it was either because of the voting power of the big market (did they vote all-stars in then?) or something with the Kobe/Jordan narrative.

IIRC he had a pretty hot start to that season and ended up cooling off, as well.

Big market, good team, exciting player is how he got in. Probably not worthy of being an all-star, but 26mpg every night is definitely significant. Reggie plays 28mpg for us this year for comparison.

The 15mpg basically every night + all playoff games that Kobe got at 18yrs would be the best scenario for Luke at 21. Rather than the "maybe he gets a look every handful of games" approach. Especially when someone like Reggie Bullock is getting all the rope in the world in front of him, and doing nothing with it.

Reggie would be playing more than that if 1. fatigue wasn't a consistent issue and 2. Ish wasn't such a good player

I completely agree that a consistent 15 minutes a game is exactly what he needs, but unless he's starts to show something more we can't expect him to be an all-star in his second season.

[Manocad]

Kobe was an All-Star his 2nd year. "Didn't see significant minutes" is a pretty big stretch. He was also 18 as a rookie and played consistently. Kennard is 21.

Played 15 minutes a game his rookie year. averaged 26 minutes a game his second year. No clue how he was an all-star as he wasn't even the starter on his own team. I would guess it was either because of the voting power of the big market (did they vote all-stars in then?) or something with the Kobe/Jordan narrative.

IIRC he had a pretty hot start to that season and ended up cooling off, as well.

Big market, good team, exciting player is how he got in. Probably not worthy of being an all-star, but 26mpg every night is definitely significant. Reggie plays 28mpg for us this year for comparison.

The 15mpg every night + all playoff games that Kobe got at 18yrs would be the best scenario for Luke at 21. Rather than the "maybe he gets a look every handful of games" approach. Especially when someone like Reggie Bullock is getting all the rope in the world in front of him and doing nothing with it.

Except that Luke isn't Kobe. While you've made some good points, Luke still isn't Kobe. Therefore you can refute my argument by saying that Kobe did indeed play significant minutes by his second year, but I can likewise say that neither Henry nor Luke are at Kobe's level nor were ever expected to be.

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[7r5ur]

Played 15 minutes a game his rookie year. averaged 26 minutes a game his second year. No clue how he was an all-star as he wasn't even the starter on his own team. I would guess it was either because of the voting power of the big market (did they vote all-stars in then?) or something with the Kobe/Jordan narrative.

IIRC he had a pretty hot start to that season and ended up cooling off, as well.

Big market, good team, exciting player is how he got in. Probably not worthy of being an all-star, but 26mpg every night is definitely significant. Reggie plays 28mpg for us this year for comparison.

The 15mpg every night + all playoff games that Kobe got at 18yrs would be the best scenario for Luke at 21. Rather than the "maybe he gets a look every handful of games" approach. Especially when someone like Reggie Bullock is getting all the rope in the world in front of him and doing nothing with it.

Except that Luke isn't Kobe. While you've made some good points, Luke still isn't Kobe. Therefore you can refute my argument by saying that Kobe did indeed play significant minutes by his second year, but I can likewise say that neither Henry nor Luke are at Kobe's level nor were ever expected to be.

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Dude... You brought up Kobe in this. I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument. Kobe played more often than Luke and was way younger (also on a team with way higher aspirations).

I just don't buy it when someone says "Look at Kobe" or "Look at Jimmy Butler", etc. These are totally different players in different situations, and cases like those are extremely rare.

[7r5ur]

Played 15 minutes a game his rookie year. averaged 26 minutes a game his second year. No clue how he was an all-star as he wasn't even the starter on his own team. I would guess it was either because of the voting power of the big market (did they vote all-stars in then?) or something with the Kobe/Jordan narrative.

IIRC he had a pretty hot start to that season and ended up cooling off, as well.

Big market, good team, exciting player is how he got in. Probably not worthy of being an all-star, but 26mpg every night is definitely significant. Reggie plays 28mpg for us this year for comparison.

The 15mpg basically every night + all playoff games that Kobe got at 18yrs would be the best scenario for Luke at 21. Rather than the "maybe he gets a look every handful of games" approach. Especially when someone like Reggie Bullock is getting all the rope in the world in front of him, and doing nothing with it.

Reggie would be playing more than that if 1. fatigue wasn't a consistent issue and 2. Ish wasn't such a good player

I completely agree that a consistent 15 minutes a game is exactly what he needs, but unless he's starts to show something more we can't expect him to be an all-star in his second season.

As opposed to what Reggie Bullock has shown, who is playing in front of him...

Who said anything about Luke being an all-star?

[Manocad]

Big market, good team, exciting player is how he got in. Probably not worthy of being an all-star, but 26mpg every night is definitely significant. Reggie plays 28mpg for us this year for comparison.

The 15mpg every night + all playoff games that Kobe got at 18yrs would be the best scenario for Luke at 21. Rather than the "maybe he gets a look every handful of games" approach. Especially when someone like Reggie Bullock is getting all the rope in the world in front of him and doing nothing with it.

Except that Luke isn't Kobe. While you've made some good points, Luke still isn't Kobe. Therefore you can refute my argument by saying that Kobe did indeed play significant minutes by his second year, but I can likewise say that neither Henry nor Luke are at Kobe's level nor were ever expected to be.

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Dude... You brought up Kobe in this. I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument. Dude played more often than Luke and was significantly younger (also on a team with way higher aspirations).

I just don't buy it when someone says "Look at Kobe" or "Look at Jimmy Butler", etc. These are totally different players in different situations, and cases like those are extremely rare.

I get that. My point is only that a poor argument on my side doesn't make the opposing argument valid. And I'm not saying you're arguing that it does, just clarifying for those who would argue that Luke hasn't been used properly this far.

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[King Ken]

According to the DRPM list Boban is one of the best defenders in the league and Bradley is one of the worst.

All this time I didn't even realize there wasn't a single guard in the league who can defend better than Boban lol

Bradley is a tough defender to measure by data. By tape, he's a protector. He makes it a lot easier for his teammate who's a guard to focus on their strengths. He protects the perimeter as good as any guard I've seen. Because he doesn't take chances on D and is very disciplined, his abilities don't show up in the sheet but it does on the tape. I personally think DET is a good fit for him as well.