Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[NavLDO]

At this point, with Bledsoe gone, McD obviously having no inkling of making Len or Monroe part of the Suns' future plans, and Ulis/James the obvious NON-answer at PG, we may as well go back to the Tank-dunk'...or is it 'Dunk-Tank'...one more time, and walk away with the best available Center...

Deandre Ayton, UofA
Mohamed Bamba, Texas
Marvin Bagley (PF), Duke
Jaren Jackson (PF), Mich St.
Wendell Carter (PF), Duke

...with our top pick...

...and the best available PG...

Shake Milton, SMU
Abdoulaye N’Doye, France
Trevon Duval, Duke
Andrew Jones, Texas
Landry Shamet, Wichita St.
Lamar Peters, MSU
Collin Sexton, Alabama

...with our Mia pick, and call it a day. Unless, somehow, we end up with our best pick being 7th or 8th, then we have to take Sexton, right?, Then we take one of the many 2nd tier Centers with the Miami pick (assuming it's not the Mia pick that came first )? Then we look at Metu or McCoy at Center, right?

I wonder, though, with Bagley, Jackson, Carter, and Williams being PF/Cs, if McD would take one of them to play Center, even if they might have PF skills. We really need to get one of the top 3 or 4 picks to ensure we get Ayton or Bamba, I guess. I'm not sure how happy Bagley or the other PF/C tweeners would be, being forced to play Center. And taking another PF, just because he was the best player on the board, would be disastrous, IMO. Chriss is shooting lights out from 3, and Bender is finally,dare I say, blossoming offensively. We just need a defensively-minded center ala what the Jazz have in Gobert; I'm not sure if any of these guys coming out profile as a Gobert-lite talent or not, but that's what we need.

Sexton / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Ayton
Ulis / Reed / Jackson / Bender / Sauce

...would look awfully good next year; feel free to interchange JJ for Warren and Bender for Chriss if it suits you better, but by-golly, please...PLEASE...can we stop tanking after this. And yes, I'm assuming a dumping of Knight, Monroe, Chandler, and Dudley, and a 'not bringing back' of Len, James, and DJJ--I'll explain next post...I know you all are very excited...

Anyway...let the 8th year of our Rebuild, commence!! To think, it all started with Kieff, drafted 13th, in 2011, and here we are setting up to drafted a Lottery pick for the 8th year in a row! Woo, woo!

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

I was gonna post this. Wtf? Why would they suffer respiratory issues?

Uhh ... hitting the 420 too hard

[jcsunsfan]

At this point, with Bledsoe gone, McD obviously having no inkling of making Len or Monroe part of the Suns' future plans, and Ulis/James the obvious NON-answer at PG, we may as well go back to the Tank-dunk'...or is it 'Dunk-Tank'...one more time, and walk away with the best available Center...

Deandre Ayton, UofA
Mohamed Bamba, Texas
Marvin Bagley (PF), Duke
Jaren Jackson (PF), Mich St.
Wendell Carter (PF), Duke

...with our top pick...

...and the best available PG...

Shake Milton, SMU
Abdoulaye N’Doye, France
Trevon Duval, Duke
Andrew Jones, Texas
Landry Shamet, Wichita St.
Lamar Peters, MSU
Collin Sexton, Alabama

...with our Mia pick, and call it a day. Unless, somehow, we end up with our best pick being 7th or 8th, then we have to take Sexton, right?, Then we take one of the many 2nd tier Centers with the Miami pick (assuming it's not the Mia pick that came first )? Then we look at Metu or McCoy at Center, right?

I wonder, though, with Bagley, Jackson, Carter, and Williams being PF/Cs, if McD would take one of them to play Center, even if they might have PF skills. We really need to get one of the top 3 or 4 picks to ensure we get Ayton or Bamba, I guess. I'm not sure how happy Bagley or the other PF/C tweeners would be, being forced to play Center. And taking another PF, just because he was the best player on the board, would be disastrous, IMO. Chriss is shooting lights out from 3, and Bender is finally,dare I say, blossoming offensively. We just need a defensively-minded center ala what the Jazz have in Gobert; I'm not sure if any of these guys coming out profile as a Gobert-lite talent or not, but that's what we need.

Sexton / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Ayton
Ulis / Reed / Jackson / Bender / Sauce

...would look awfully good next year; feel free to interchange JJ for Warren and Bender for Chriss if it suits you better, but by-golly, please...PLEASE...can we stop tanking after this. And yes, I'm assuming a dumping of Knight, Monroe, Chandler, and Dudley, and a 'not bringing back' of Len, James, and DJJ--I'll explain next post...I know you all are very excited...

Anyway...let the 8th year of our Rebuild, commence!! To think, it all started with Kieff, drafted 13th, in 2011, and here we are setting up to drafted a Lottery pick for the 8th year in a row! Woo, woo!

Trade three second round picks for a late first. Trade two late first round picks for an early middle pick. Trade in all the picks we have this year to get the best two picks possible. That's all I want. The best two possible.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

I think giving Booker a game off might be a good idea especially in a fast paced game like it’s gonna be against Houston. His minutes and usage rate lately had been crazy, don’t wanna wear him down like Thibs has done to Jimmy Butler in the past.

[NavLDO]

OK, so Part II. How to get rid of Chandler and Knight. Dudley isn't really 'dumping', as we like Dudley, but doubt he sticks arounf much longer. Monroe will likely be bought out before the end of the year, or traded, so this is about Knight and Chandler.

Option 1 - We trade Chandler and Knight to the Celtics for Gordon Hayward. Why would the Celtics want to do this? Well, Hayward is owed $98.2M over the next THREE seasons AFTER this season; Chandler and Knight, only $43.9M over the next TWO (or one, for Chandler) after this season, and the Celtics are learning they really do not need Hayward, but having Chandler behind Horford wouldn't be a bad deal for them. We could use Hayward as part of our Wing rotation with Booker, JJ, and Warren, while Warren gets some minutes at PF, while Chriss and Bender get minutes at PF and C from time to time.

Option 2 - Mike Conley. Same Scenario, different team, slight number difference, as he's owed $97.5M. Yet, doubt either of our teams would go for it since Conley is 30, and the Grizzlies don't have much after him at the position, unless you count Knight.

Option 3 - Something LIKE this..not this EXACTLY...but where we include Dudley, and get some pieces back like O'Quinn. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybfasadg...I don't care much for the other pieces though...

Anyway...goal would be to consolidate, eat one salary, and move on. from there...

[Blackification]

Read on Twitter

I think giving Booker a game off might be a good idea especially in a fast paced game like it’s gonna be against Houston. His minutes and usage rate lately had been crazy, don’t wanna wear him down like Thibs has done to Jimmy Butler in the past.

I don't think Booker will want to miss a nationally televised game, but we will see

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

I think giving Booker a game off might be a good idea especially in a fast paced game like it’s gonna be against Houston. His minutes and usage rate lately had been crazy, don’t wanna wear him down like Thibs has done to Jimmy Butler in the past.

I don't think Booker will want to miss a nationally televised game, but we will see

It’s gonna be an embarrassing game, so he could see it as avoiding the embarrassment. And Suns could also claim that the reason for them losing by so much was because of Booker missing the game.

[lilfishi22]

I think giving Booker a game off might be a good idea especially in a fast paced game like it’s gonna be against Houston. His minutes and usage rate lately had been crazy, don’t wanna wear him down like Thibs has done to Jimmy Butler in the past.

I don't think Booker will want to miss a nationally televised game, but we will see

It’s gonna be an embarrassing game, so he could see it as avoiding the embarrassment. And Suns could also claim that the reason for them losing by so much was because of Booker missing the game.

This walking away doesn't sound like Booker

[Jdiddy701]

If Chandler is out, I️ hope Monroe starts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[darealjuice]

I don't think Booker will want to miss a nationally televised game, but we will see

It’s gonna be an embarrassing game, so he could see it as avoiding the embarrassment. And Suns could also claim that the reason for them losing by so much was because of Booker missing the game.

This walking away doesn't sound like Booker

I'd be embarrassed to be a fan of this team if it came out that they tucked their tail in and sat players on national tv against the Rockets for the sake of having an excuse as to why they got blown out. Booker is definitely not the type to sit because he thinks they'll get embarrassed either.

[bwgood77]

Also you can forget any free agents signing here unless they get overpayed. Booker said he got 50 texts from players around the league (i'm sure its not an accurate number) but it does show the general perception of the players is that the people in charge have no idea what the **** they are doing. At best we can hope for another eric gordon situation where we overpay for a guy, but given our record and infatuation with tanking and trading away anyone who should actually be on an NBA court, we aren't getting any high level talent.

Don't buy it. Literally every player just wants to get paid, they could give two craps where they play if they are a free agent. Sure, some may want to compete but that in itself would weed us out more than anything else. This is why you see guys like Allen Crabbe sign with the Nets, Deng signing with the Lakers, George Hill signing with the Kings. Z-Bo could have easily went to a contender for maybe veteran's minimum, but he decided to sign with the Kings(for 12mil). I know those guys are considered over-paid, but so far are front office hasn't really overpaid for mediocre players and has given fair contracts. For the regular journeymen in the NBA, the front office has little to do with where they sign.
They may also consider that the players who left are the ones causing trouble. MoBros with the aggravated assault charges, Bledsoe with the stupid agent. IT complained about playing time, but if I remember correctly, he was happy when we signed him since no other team was willing to give him a contract.

True for most players but for the players in that upper tier, they'll get paid regardless and they'll want to negotiate and play for a front office that treats their players professionally and has vision. Those players you mentioned are clearly not the guys we should be targeting. If "50" players are texting Booker trying to find out WTH our front office is doing then that's a red flag

It's pretty rare that top tier free agents switch teams. It's happened more recently with Durant, Hayward, Horford and Millsap. Anyway, if we get to the level of where a team like Boston or GS is, we could likely get one too. If your team improves from within, people want to play there, like Butler to the TWolves, Horford, Irving and Hayward in Boston and Durant.

But yeah, if we are still terrible people won't want to sign here. What top tier free agents sign with bottom tier teams? I mean George Hill and Zach Randolph signed with the Kings, but I wouldn't consider them top tier. Other than that it usually takes a big market.

If we begin to be competitive and are in the playoff hunt, people will likely start to consider it, particularly since it's going to take a couple years at least. I don't see many of the big names switching teams in 2019 anyway. Most of the other names wither seem too old or are wings...most of these guys will be well past their primes, are very likely to stay, or we won't want (Kyrie, Dwight, Chris Paul, Bledsoe, Middleton, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Khris Middleton, Harrison Barnes)...Butler is a FA but I doubt he goes anywhere....then you have some centers like Whiteside, Vucevic and Valanciunas. One guy that we might be able to get at that point is Kevin Love, but not sure how he'd fit or if we'd want him.

For PGs, there will be Walker (doubt he moves), Teague, Beverley, Collison, McConnell, Dinwiddie, Ish Smith, Bayless

Which guys would you target in 2019 that you think might leave their teams?

[bwgood77]

It’s gonna be an embarrassing game, so he could see it as avoiding the embarrassment. And Suns could also claim that the reason for them losing by so much was because of Booker missing the game.

This walking away doesn't sound like Booker

I'd be embarrassed to be a fan of this team if it came out that they tucked their tail in and sat players on national tv against the Rockets for the sake of having an excuse as to why they got blown out. Booker is definitely not the type to sit because he thinks they'll get embarrassed either.

Yeah, that's ridiculous. Booker is a competitor, as are all the young guys.

[darealjuice]

Man Sixers got a really good deal on Robert Covington's contract. Definitely like his game, and he's a good starting 3 for that team. He's a very good defender and 3-point shooter, and he doesn't need to see a lot of the ball to make an impact on offense. Sixers definitely need good players on contracts like that with the paydays they'll have to dish out in the next couple years.

[nevetsov]

OK, so Part II. How to get rid of Chandler and Knight.

Option 2 - Mike Conley. Same Scenario, different team, slight number difference, as he's owed $97.5M. Yet, doubt either of our teams would go for it since Conley is 30, and the Grizzlies don't have much after him at the position, unless you count Knight.

Anyway...goal would be to consolidate, eat one salary, and move on. from there...

I'm watching the Grizz game now and they are getting thumped by freaking Indiana. They are in an interesting position in that they have plateaued as a 5-6 seed team, and outside of their 2 high priced stars, they have very little else in terms of talent or salary commitments. Short of a miracle they won't be competing any time soon, will probably do a slow fade from the playoffs as their stars deteriorate over the next 3-4 years and have an extended period of mediocrity (sound familiar?).

It's obviously difficult getting out of NBA purgatory and bad for business when youre there, which is why most Front Offices try to delay the inevitable as much as possible. But let's say MEM continue to get blitzed, their first point of order will be to try and shed that long term salary.

Conley and Gasol are still high end players, but the problem is they are on even higher end contracts. In order to convince another team to take the financial commitment, they'll have to take back lesser talent if they want shorter contracts. I guess you could say this is like the Marbury and Penny deal to NY (expensive, long term talent) for expirings and crap.

I would consider:
Conley and Gasol
For
Len ($5m expiring)
Monroe ($17m expiring)
Chandler ($12m x2)
Knight ($13m x3)

Justification for PHX financially:
We are paying Chandler and Knight $27m combined this year and next for which we aren't getting the equivalent return return in production. So in terms of swapping them for Conley, there is no major financial impact this year or next. The third year, we swap Knights $15m for a $30m contract, which would be a one-off tax paying year, but the following year he becomes expiring and with all our picks we'd likely have successor in place by then.

If you then balance Len and Monroe's expirings against Gasol's 2 years, we take on money next year which we can absorb, given Warrens cheap extension is the only one in effect. Gasol then has a player option In year three, which if he accepts just adds into the tax paying year previously discussed.

Justification for PHX rotation wise:
We straight away address our 2 major holes at starting PG and C, by adding defensively capable and offensively stabilizing veterans who are playoff tested.We run with a center rotation of Gasol/ Williams/ cheap third string pickup this year, and draft a replacement to develop in the draft by pooling our picks and getting the best available option.

Conley, Ulis, James
Booker, Daniels, Reed
Warren, Jackson, Jones
Chriss, Bender, Dudley, (Peters)
Gasol, Williams, (signee)

Memphis hit the reset button, save a butt ton of cash, Have only 2 deals extending past next season, and get a free hit on the misspent youth of Len and Knight. Happy to throw in DJJ if they want to road test him too seeing we don't appear to have the development minutes for him, either.

[lilfishi22]

Man Sixers got a really good deal on Robert Covington's contract. Definitely like his game, and he's a good starting 3 for that team. He's a very good defender and 3-point shooter, and he doesn't need to see a lot of the ball to make an impact on offense. Sixers definitely need good players on contracts like that with the paydays they'll have to dish out in the next couple years.

What the hell...Covington is shooting 50% from the 3 on over 7 attempts a game

[bwgood77]

OK, so Part II. How to get rid of Chandler and Knight.

Option 2 - Mike Conley. Same Scenario, different team, slight number difference, as he's owed $97.5M. Yet, doubt either of our teams would go for it since Conley is 30, and the Grizzlies don't have much after him at the position, unless you count Knight.

Anyway...goal would be to consolidate, eat one salary, and move on. from there...

I'm watching the Grizz game now and they are getting thumped by freaking Indiana. They are in an interesting position in that they have plateaued as a 5-6 seed team, and outside of their 2 high priced stars, they have very little else in terms of talent or salary commitments. Short of a miracle they won't be competing any time soon, will probably do a slow fade from the playoffs as their stars deteriorate over the next 3-4 years and have an extended period of mediocrity (sound familiar?).

It's obviously difficult getting out of NBA purgatory and bad for business when youre there, which is why most Front Offices try to delay the inevitable as much as possible. But let's say MEM continue to get blitzed, their first point of order will be to try and shed that long term salary.

Conley and Gasol are still high end players, but the problem is they are on even higher end contracts. In order to convince another team to take the financial commitment, they'll have to take back lesser talent if they want shorter contracts. I guess you could say this is like the Marbury and Penny deal to NY (expensive, long term talent) for expirings and crap.

I would consider:
Conley and Gasol
For
Len ($5m expiring)
Monroe ($17m expiring)
Chandler ($12m x2)
Knight ($13m x3)

Justification for PHX financially:
We are paying Chandler and Knight $27m combined this year and next for which we aren't getting the equivalent return return in production. So in terms of swapping them for Conley, there is no major financial impact this year or next. The third year, we swap Knights $15m for a $30m contract, which would be a one-off tax paying year, but the following year he becomes expiring and with all our picks we'd likely have successor in place by then.

If you then balance Len and Monroe's expirings against Gasol's 2 years, we take on money next year which we can absorb, given Warrens cheap extension is the only one in effect. Gasol then has a player option In year three, which if he accepts just adds into the tax paying year previously discussed.

Justification for PHX rotation wise:
We straight away address our 2 major holes at starting PG and C, by adding defensively capable and offensively stabilizing veterans who are playoff tested.We run with a center rotation of Gasol/ Williams/ cheap third string pickup this year, and draft a replacement to develop in the draft by pooling our picks and getting the best available option.

Conley, Ulis, James
Booker, Daniels, Reed
Warren, Jackson, Jones
Chriss, Bender, Dudley, (Peters)
Gasol, Williams, (signee)

Memphis hit the reset button, save a butt ton of cash, Have only 2 deals extending past next season, and get a free hit on the misspent youth of Len and Knight. Happy to throw in DJJ if they want to road test him too seeing we don't appear to have the development minutes for him, either.

The Grizzlies have surprised this year. They already beat the Warriors and then beat the Rockets twice and recently beat the Clips and Blazers on the road. They are on the 2nd game of a b2b after playing a close game with the Bucks last night.

They are a team that can't blow it up because they are a small market with a pretty loyal fanbase. They love Conley and Gasol.

They keep finding solid players late in the draft too. Dillon Brooks playing really well for them..

I mentioned a few times how much I liked Dillon Brooks and Jordan Bell in this draft and they both are playing really well.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Len, Monroe, Chandler, Knight might not be positive value.

[bigfoot]

OK, so Part II. How to get rid of Chandler and Knight.

Option 2 - Mike Conley. Same Scenario, different team, slight number difference, as he's owed $97.5M. Yet, doubt either of our teams would go for it since Conley is 30, and the Grizzlies don't have much after him at the position, unless you count Knight.

Anyway...goal would be to consolidate, eat one salary, and move on. from there...

I'm watching the Grizz game now and they are getting thumped by freaking Indiana. They are in an interesting position in that they have plateaued as a 5-6 seed team, and outside of their 2 high priced stars, they have very little else in terms of talent or salary commitments. Short of a miracle they won't be competing any time soon, will probably do a slow fade from the playoffs as their stars deteriorate over the next 3-4 years and have an extended period of mediocrity (sound familiar?).

It's obviously difficult getting out of NBA purgatory and bad for business when youre there, which is why most Front Offices try to delay the inevitable as much as possible. But let's say MEM continue to get blitzed, their first point of order will be to try and shed that long term salary.

Conley and Gasol are still high end players, but the problem is they are on even higher end contracts. In order to convince another team to take the financial commitment, they'll have to take back lesser talent if they want shorter contracts. I guess you could say this is like the Marbury and Penny deal to NY (expensive, long term talent) for expirings and crap.

I would consider:
Conley and Gasol
For
Len ($5m expiring)
Monroe ($17m expiring)
Chandler ($12m x2)
Knight ($13m x3)

Justification for PHX financially:
We are paying Chandler and Knight $27m combined this year and next for which we aren't getting the equivalent return return in production. So in terms of swapping them for Conley, there is no major financial impact this year or next. The third year, we swap Knights $15m for a $30m contract, which would be a one-off tax paying year, but the following year he becomes expiring and with all our picks we'd likely have successor in place by then.

If you then balance Len and Monroe's expirings against Gasol's 2 years, we take on money next year which we can absorb, given Warrens cheap extension is the only one in effect. Gasol then has a player option In year three, which if he accepts just adds into the tax paying year previously discussed.

Justification for PHX rotation wise:
We straight away address our 2 major holes at starting PG and C, by adding defensively capable and offensively stabilizing veterans who are playoff tested.We run with a center rotation of Gasol/ Williams/ cheap third string pickup this year, and draft a replacement to develop in the draft by pooling our picks and getting the best available option.

Conley, Ulis, James
Booker, Daniels, Reed
Warren, Jackson, Jones
Chriss, Bender, Dudley, (Peters)
Gasol, Williams, (signee)

Memphis hit the reset button, save a butt ton of cash, Have only 2 deals extending past next season, and get a free hit on the misspent youth of Len and Knight. Happy to throw in DJJ if they want to road test him too seeing we don't appear to have the development minutes for him, either.

This is such a lopsided trade for us. If we gave Memphis three or four first round picks then maybe they would bite. Otherwise you are sending our trash (Len, Chandler, Monroe, and Knight) and robbing them of two elite players.

[lilfishi22]

It's pretty rare that top tier free agents switch teams. It's happened more recently with Durant, Hayward, Horford and Millsap. Anyway, if we get to the level of where a team like Boston or GS is, we could likely get one too. If your team improves from within, people want to play there, like Butler to the TWolves, Horford, Irving and Hayward in Boston and Durant.

But yeah, if we are still terrible people won't want to sign here. What top tier free agents sign with bottom tier teams? I mean George Hill and Zach Randolph signed with the Kings, but I wouldn't consider them top tier. Other than that it usually takes a big market.

If we begin to be competitive and are in the playoff hunt, people will likely start to consider it, particularly since it's going to take a couple years at least. I don't see many of the big names switching teams in 2019 anyway. Most of the other names wither seem too old or are wings...most of these guys will be well past their primes, are very likely to stay, or we won't want (Kyrie, Dwight, Chris Paul, Bledsoe, Middleton, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Khris Middleton, Harrison Barnes)...Butler is a FA but I doubt he goes anywhere....then you have some centers like Whiteside, Vucevic and Valanciunas. One guy that we might be able to get at that point is Kevin Love, but not sure how he'd fit or if we'd want him.

For PGs, there will be Walker (doubt he moves), Teague, Beverley, Collison, McConnell, Dinwiddie, Ish Smith, Bayless

Which guys would you target in 2019 that you think might leave their teams?

Wolves were also 'under new management' and Butler played under Thibodeau. Irving and Hayward joined a top team in the East. Durant sold his soul for glory. I think the quality of a front office is a consideration for top FA's. When you're a top FA, you don't 'audition' for teams, teams come to sell their vision. Right now we don't really have much of a direction, we're kinda just hoping our players develop well and we have giant hole in two super important positions.

Not saying we can't attract a Hayward type player (a tier or two below 'elite') but I think if we kept on going as we are with McD treating players like assets, even if we're up and coming, I could see us having to really overpay or those players put us a few notches lower on their list of teams they want to play for. If we're still terrible, they won't sign here that's a given.

At this point, I'm not even looking at 2019 because it really depends how we are playing and whether our guys are panning out. If our young guys aren't developing as we expect, then we may go in a different direction. By 2019, Booker's likely maxed out extension will hit the books, we'll need to make decisions on Bender/Chriss (whether we keep or replace) and McD will be in the last year of his deal. If we don't show some promise and a reasonable amount of internal development/improvement these next two seasons, we could go with a soft reset, keeping only Booker.

[nevetsov]

The Grizzlies have surprised this year. They already beat the Warriors and then beat the Rockets twice and recently beat the Clips and Blazers on the road. They are on the 2nd game of a b2b after playing a close game with the Bucks last night.

They are a team that can't blow it up because they are a small market with a pretty loyal fanbase. They love Conley and Gasol.

They keep finding solid players late in the draft too. Dillon Brooks playing really well for them..

I mentioned a few times how much I liked Dillon Brooks and Jordan Bell in this draft and they both are playing really well.

If they have surprised and are still sitting at 7-7 and the current 8th seed then that's not something to celebrate.

Completely agree on the challenges of being a small market team, and agree that this is probably the reason they won't blow it up, but instead ride the vets into the sunset and start the process in a few years, after they have diminished trade value.

You mention their ability to find good players late in the draft - I wouldn't see this as justification to delay a rebuild though, but rather to embrace it.