Why is Al Horford not considered one of the best players in the NBA by the common fan?

[PhilBlackson]

His stats kinda do jump off the page though.

15.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 57.6% FG, 48.8% 3PT

In playoffs last year:
15.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 5.4 APG, 58.4% FG, 51.9% 3PT

If you're into analytics or percentages (not to discredit because Al has always been good but a lot of that is also a product of the team and system) sure it's wonderful.....but sorry 15ppg and 8.8rpg hardly jump off the page.

Rhyme off the stats of some of the other top big men like Anthony Davis (25/11), Kristaps (28.9/7.3), Giannis (30/10) etc those are numbers that do!! The discussion is also about the CASUAL FAN, 15/8 won't stand out to them to being any more than a role player which imo Al kinda is a very high impact one....don't get me wrong he's an all-star but there's levels to it and the names I mentioned were superstars and those are the kinds of players that considered the best by the casual fan and they are. Terrifying to think how damn good any of the players *ahem* Anthony Davis, would look on a TEAM and in a SYSTEM like the Celtics that knows how to play to a player's strengths.

Sorry Al has been VERY good this season but he isn't one of the best which I believe the discussion is based on the top 10-15 players which the casual fan would know and consider as such.

I never said he's one of the best players in the league or even close to top 15. His efficiency and stats make the Celtics a winning team and he does so much that doesn't show up in the box score. It's no coincidence the Celtics have taken the next step with him and IT4 and Bradley had career years playing with him. The fact that you're comparing AD to Horford is ridiculous because 10/10 I would rather have AD bro what.

What's ridiculous is that you're arguing something no one is disputing lol

In case you missed the topic it's "Why is Al Horford not considered one of the best players in the NBA by the common fan?"

I'm telling you why lol because he's not up there with the superstars of the league which the casual fan knows and that's the point. Casual fans consider the best players in the NBA to be the superstars which only makes logical sense, hence why they are some of the BEST players in the league. Horford is definitely one of the BETTER players but again there's levels....

[King Ken]

Does a great job in his ROLE on a TEAM, there are many greater INDIVIDUAL talents in the league, not to mention his stats don't jump off the page either.

His stats kinda do jump off the page though.

15.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 57.6% FG, 48.8% 3PT

In playoffs last year:
15.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 5.4 APG, 58.4% FG, 51.9% 3PT

If you're into analytics or percentages (not to discredit because Al has always been good but a lot of that is also a product of the team and system) sure it's wonderful.....but sorry 15ppg and 8.8rpg hardly jump off the page. There are plenty of players that have put up just the raw production of 15 and 8, that's what doesn't stand out.

Rhyme off the stats of some of the other top big men like Anthony Davis (25/11), Kristaps (28.9/7.3), Giannis (30/10) etc those are numbers that do!! The discussion is also about the CASUAL FAN, 15/8 won't stand out to them to being any more than a role player which imo Al kinda is a very high impact one....don't get me wrong he's an all-star but there's levels to it and the names I mentioned were superstars and those are the kinds of players that considered the best by the casual fan and they are. Terrifying to think how damn good any of the players *ahem* Anthony Davis, would look on a TEAM and in a SYSTEM like the Celtics that knows how to play to a player's strengths.

Sorry Al has been VERY good this season but he isn't one of the best which I believe the discussion is based on the top 10-15 players which the casual fan would know and consider as such.

Al is the product that makes everything work. Everything. To say he's just a product clearly makes no sense if you watch the tape. Seriously, to say he's the product of a system is nonsense when Al's been the piece that tends to make all of these coaches look way better than they are. It's easy to be a better coach when you got someone like Al who can cover so much in terms of responsibility and impact the game in the way he does.

Like I said, the average fan loves unicorns, we all love them. They pop off the screen. But when someone like me who loves watching the tape and seeing in what ways can this player help me win, possession after possession. Al pops off the screen for me. Many scouts, coaches and GM's will agree.

[[EverGreen]]

Simply because people don't watch that much basketball.

People read forums like this, they read boxscores and watch highlights. Horford don't appear in any of those things. If the Celtics make the NBA finals, everyone will be raving about Horford, even if they lose (which I think the would against the Warriors).

The same way if Draymond would get no recognition if he was traded to a rebuilding franchise like the Kings/Hawks/Nets.

We live in a world where Zach LaVine gets hyped because he can jump high and scored 18 ppg on a rebuilding squad. That's what gets noticed, but it's not what wins.

[PhilBlackson]

His stats kinda do jump off the page though.

15.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 57.6% FG, 48.8% 3PT

In playoffs last year:
15.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 5.4 APG, 58.4% FG, 51.9% 3PT

If you're into analytics or percentages (not to discredit because Al has always been good but a lot of that is also a product of the team and system) sure it's wonderful.....but sorry 15ppg and 8.8rpg hardly jump off the page. There are plenty of players that have put up just the raw production of 15 and 8, that's what doesn't stand out.

Rhyme off the stats of some of the other top big men like Anthony Davis (25/11), Kristaps (28.9/7.3), Giannis (30/10) etc those are numbers that do!! The discussion is also about the CASUAL FAN, 15/8 won't stand out to them to being any more than a role player which imo Al kinda is a very high impact one....don't get me wrong he's an all-star but there's levels to it and the names I mentioned were superstars and those are the kinds of players that considered the best by the casual fan and they are. Terrifying to think how damn good any of the players *ahem* Anthony Davis, would look on a TEAM and in a SYSTEM like the Celtics that knows how to play to a player's strengths.

Sorry Al has been VERY good this season but he isn't one of the best which I believe the discussion is based on the top 10-15 players which the casual fan would know and consider as such.

Al is the product that makes everything work. Everything. To say he's just a product clearly makes no sense if you watch the tape. Seriously, to say he's the product of a system is nonsense when Al's been the piece that tends to make all of these coaches look way better than they are. It's easy to be a better coach when you got someone like Al who can cover so much in terms of responsibility and impact the game in the way he does.

Like I said, the average fan loves unicorns, we all love them. They pop off the screen. But when someone like me who loves watching the tape and seeing in what ways can this player help me win, possession after possession. Al pops off the screen for me. Many scouts, coaches and GM's will agree.

Round of applause he pops off the screen to you, analysts, yadda yadda etc...I don't know why I have to repeat but the TOPIC is why he doesn't to the CASUAL FAN and that's what I'm addressing. You talking about "unicorns" etc only strengthens MY point lol It's like you guys think I'm discrediting what a great job Al does by addressing THE TOPIC which I am not, I'm simply stating the reason why. This really isn't that hard to follow.

[OldCeltics]

Al Horford is Celtics 2nd best player. 16ppg, 8rbd, 5ass, 1.5blk, 1stl

[Plutonashfan]

Cause he gets destroyed by Tristian Thompson every year in the playoffs.

He never gets destroyed by Thompson in the playoffs. He gets destroyed by LeBron. LeBron is the one who makes it his mission to break the matrix v. the Hawks. Horford makes the right decision but LeBron is so good, he has the ability to make the best decision. Guys like Jordan and LeBron can do that. They can impact the game at such a level that no one really can do anything about it unless your squad is loaded.

Actually your both wrong it's Kevin Love that's mashing on him.

[FlatearthZorro]

Al Horford is Celtics 2nd best player. 16ppg, 9rbd, 5ass, 1.5blk, 1stl

Yea with a little correction, you're right tho.

[King Ken]

Cause he gets destroyed by Tristian Thompson every year in the playoffs.

He never gets destroyed by Thompson in the playoffs. He gets destroyed by LeBron. LeBron is the one who makes it his mission to break the matrix v. the Hawks. Horford makes the right decision but LeBron is so good, he has the ability to make the best decision. Guys like Jordan and LeBron can do that. They can impact the game at such a level that no one really can do anything about it unless your squad is loaded.

Actually your both wrong it's Kevin Love that's mashing on him.

Wrong. Millsap was mainly guarding Love. Horford role in Atlanta was overall defense. He protects our perimeter defenders and defends space over just defending the paint. He wasn't really guarding TT like that. TT was able to crash the boards because James kept beating his man off of the dribble and opening up defense because we couldn't defend the perimeter. Cleveland then killed us from 3 due to it and Kyrie's also killing us off of the dribble. We just didn't have enough offensive talent to make Cleveland work on the defensive end so they could be tired. All they had to do was faceguard Korver and that was the end of our chapter.

[Captain_Caveman]

Most people don't understand basketball and have to rely on box scores and media-approved takes for their opinions.

For whatever reason, my Celts tend to draw the least accurate of these takes on this GB.

[pwayknicks]

Top 10, really? Do you rate horford now over prime Noah ? Who did everything that horford does now but better


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[Seabass11]

1) Horford is underrated
2) He is not even close to a top 10 player though. Top 20 is maybe debateable
3) You really come off as a d*** the way you phrase the title of this thread and then say things like "I just see the game better than most." Its like listening to a 5th grader trying to win an argument

[Sixercise]

Is there an accurate clutch statistic out there on Al? it seems like he embraces the crunchtime more than most players....

[DowJones]

He is a guy that doesn’t do anything great or poorly. He probably gets underrated by the casual but overrated by the hard core.

[UcanUwill]

If only he could draw fouls.

[AdagioPace]

he's surely playing more than a great complementary role (defense,secondary playmaking and efficiency stand out). Those are also the features of impactful players.
But if Draymond is not considered unanimously a top 10 player It's hard for Horford to make a name for himself unless you're a Gobert-good generational defensive player

He's suffering from the same bias which affects Draymond and Gobert but only worse!
We cannot pretend other people to change idea on a player after 15 games though,even if they promise to be open-minded,our mind is by nature conservative/skeptical and that's good initially!
He has to sustain this level of playing for a season at least before proving sample size, conservatives,and "casuals" wrong

[kg01]

1) Horford is underrated
2) He is not even close to a top 10 player though. Top 20 is maybe debateable
3) You really come off as a d*** the way you phrase the title of this thread and then say things like "I just see the game better than most." Its like listening to a 5th grader trying to win an argument

OP won't admit to it now but he once told us Al was better than Karl Malone.

He needs an intervention.

[papz187]

I don't know how the common fan is able to watch enough bb from enough teams to decipher from 30 teams and over 400 players who the top guys are, other than watching sports highlights snapshots. Horford is just one of those solid guys who make a big difference on the floor, but don't make a lot of appearance in highlights because he isn't making spectacular at the rim athletic plays. However the more you watch him, the more you appreciate what he is doing.

While I agree Horford is not a top 10 player, he may be a top 10 player for Brads System. As well as Kyrie, they fit his system like a glove and will be very hard to stop.

If Al is listed as a top 10 player for all coaches systems in the NBA. Scouts and GM's agree, players love playing with him and they make a lot more money due to his impact on their games, wouldn't he be a top 10 player. Just my take. Maybe I am seeing it completely different than you guys.

That's why I said, I see him as a top 10 player and it's not debatable to me.

Horford is a true leader and is one of the most humble players you'll see. He'll fit any team and any system. He makes any team he's on better. He is severely underrated.
Many unknowledgeable fans were complaining when Horford signed that huge contract with the Celtics but true basketball people know his worth. As other people have said, the common fan won't recognize him as such and it's unfortunate. People and media want accolades they can see or stats to prove his worth. There are no stats for so much of what Horford does.

While I agree Horford is not a top 10 player, he may be a top 10 player for Brads System. As well as Kyrie, they fit his system like a glove and will be very hard to stop.

,

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[papz187]

1q2q1Zzaa

I like Horford a lot, and I think the idea that he is top 10 in the league is ridiculous. In case there was any question whether the OP was overreaching and being unrealistic, this thread more or less began with:

I think Horford is a top 10 player. I don't think it's debatable either.

followed by pages of people debating it, and very few people agreeing with the premise. Clearly it is debatable.

I did say, I, not universally accepted. I clearly started the thread saying he's underrated and fans/writers/journalists don't see him that way. Bad choice of wording shouldn't otherwise change the pace of this thread.

--!°

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[King Ken]

He's been the main piece behind two #1 seeds.
His impact on the game is always beyond numbers and ALWAYS appears on the game tape.
His movement both on offense and defense, ability to break from the play to the right read like a top tier NFL route runner.
His defensive awareness.
His defensive movement with his quick hands.
His elite agility off of the ball.
His screen setting ability, especially off script screens which are backdoor cuts, flares, pin down curls, at the ability to finish while making an elite decision off of that.
His intangibles are as good as anyone I've ever seen in the NBA ever.
His ability to run all sets of offenses. You can put him in an isotype offense, movement type offense, grit n' grind type of offense, uptempo, midtempo, slow tempo, perimeter-centric, post-centric, screen-centric, PnR centric offense.
His ability to defend multiple positions and not just protect one player on the court but ALL players on the court on defense.
His ability to blend into his teammates' strengths which further helps them in terms of development and impact.
We have seen this with almost every player who's played with Horford.

He's the most impactful player I've seen that gets no respect for his impact. I mean, we see Giannis, LeBron, Kobe, etc. But it's like Al does SO MUCH more to make others better but gets no respect. I've heard knowledgeable fans compare him to Horace Grant who was, all in all, a good role player but he didn't make no one's life easier. He just had a define skill-set which is similar to Al's but it completely removes all of what Al can do above which Horace could NEVER do.

Maybe I just see the game better than most and of course, I've seen 100's of Al's games live or different versions of the tape so I have more experience with him than many others do but at some point, put some respect on his name.

Opinions?

I been saying for years about how great Horford is. Best impact player in the NBA that isnt this freak talent

[Jaqua92]

That's because people commonly associate "best" with top-5 to top-10 and Horford is neither.

I think Horford is a top 10 player. I don't think it's debatable either. I look at the overall impact. I don't just look at the scoreboard. I actually watch and understand Basketball and understand how players play and how you can be utilized said player.

I am not one of those fans who sees a player struggling and says, well he sucks. I look at his role, his personnel grouping, his ability to fit said scheme and his ability to adjust to said scheme. I see the ENTIRE game. Not just if he can pass, rebound, shoot, has the tools. I look at everything. So when you said Al Horford, I see something different. I don't know what you see, but if you don't see what I see, that's fine but I just want you to acknowledge what I see and understand the effect it has on Millsap, Noah, Kyrie, IT and other players he's played with in the past. The man literally single-handedly made Kyle Korver an All Star. Name one player in NBA history who could do that?

As a celtic fan, I gotta say, chill.

You are saying "Al is a top 10 player and I know this because I'm smarter than you all who disagree". It is worded politely, but your attitude about that is clear. Not a good look imo