2018 NBA Draft Talk

[Don7]

Did you forget Kawhi?

[clip set]

I doubt anyone thinks building a contender is easy. The question is really whether it's more interesting/entertaining to watch a capped out 35-40 win team with no real prospects that's effectively locked in for 3-4 years or a 25 win team with an actual player development pipeline. Relatedly, does the entertainment value of winning 10 more games without a legitimate means for improvement outweigh the usefulness of a young player development pipeline? Both scenarios come with struggles and there aren't any guarantees either way, but when the margin of difference in terms of wins isn't really meaningful it's a lot easier for me to justify rebuilding.

My high 40s win projection for this season is looking pretty stupid right now, but if everyone stayed relatively healthy (an even stupider assumption) it may have been manageable. Even if we got into that range, a retool into a contender would be just as improbable as via drafting. We don't have assets to exchange for good players, and with the growing concentration of stars around the league, it makes less sense for teams to part with one star out of a duo or trio if a team is underperforming (i.e. dumping Cousins for picks / young assets made more sense for the Kings than it would for the Pelicans when they still have Davis and wouldn't be positioned for a full rebuild). There's less availability of single star teams that are bad and would consider rebuilding - we probably actually fit this more than most teams around the league.

I still want to see what this team can do when healthy, but the chance of another star walking through the door is basically nil considering what our cap will look like if we don't gut the roster.

[Quake Griffin]

Oh some other teams with questionable front offices didn’t draft and develop well?

K.
Let’s not participate in the draft altogether.


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[esqtvd]

Did you forget Kawhi?

Nope, LOL. He was obtained for George Hill [who's never made an All-Star team]. Who was a good pick though--but way back in 2008!

[Who And-1'd that? Geewz.]

[esqtvd]

I doubt anyone thinks building a contender is easy. The question is really whether it's more interesting/entertaining to watch a capped out 35-40 win team with no real prospects that's effectively locked in for 3-4 years or a 25 win team with an actual player development pipeline. Relatedly, does the entertainment value of winning 10 more games without a legitimate means for improvement outweigh the usefulness of a young player development pipeline? Both scenarios come with struggles and there aren't any guarantees either way, but when the margin of difference in terms of wins isn't really meaningful it's a lot easier for me to justify rebuilding.

My high 40s win projection for this season is looking pretty stupid right now, but if everyone stayed relatively healthy (an even stupider assumption) it may have been manageable. Even if we got into that range, a retool into a contender would be just as improbable as via drafting. We don't have assets to exchange for good players, and with the growing concentration of stars around the league, it makes less sense for teams to part with one star out of a duo or trio if a team is underperforming (i.e. dumping Cousins for picks / young assets made more sense for the Kings than it would for the Pelicans when they still have Davis and wouldn't be positioned for a full rebuild). There's less availability of single star teams that are bad and would consider rebuilding - we probably actually fit this more than most teams around the league.

I still want to see what this team can do when healthy, but the chance of another star walking through the door is basically nil considering what our cap will look like if we don't gut the roster.

All true but the original argument is asking what the chances are of getting that needle-pegging star [let alone the 2 or 3 you'll probably need] even if you DO tank. And, having suffered since the Clippers' arrival in 1984, I learned to appreciate the difference between even a marginal playoff team and the 17-30 win dreck we swallowed for all those years.

And yes, I'm also looking stupid with my high-40s win prediction too. How soon it can all go bye-bye.

[ejftw]

Process:
2018: DeAndre Ayton
2019: Shareef O'Neal
2020: Jonathan Salazar & Austin Cannon
2021: Devin Askew & Makani Whiteside

2024-2029 NBA Champs.

[Quake Griffin]

Process:
2018: DeAndre Ayton
2019: Shareef O'Neal
2020: Jonathan Salazar & Austin Cannon
2021: Devin Askew & Makani Whiteside

2024-2029 NBA Champs.

Clippers in 5.


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[TucsonClip]

Oh, and like Zo Ball, this year's #1 Fultz can't shoot either and doesn't even have Ball's mad ballhandling skills
hey, Sixers are my hometown team and the worst is over and I hope for the best
but no, it wasn't worth it

Ill leave out the rest and focus on this instead. None of this is even remotely true. I can break it all down for you if you want, but... Fultz has a shoulder issue that has been a problem for four months now? He absolutely can shoot. Ball has never been labeled as having a tight handle, let alone moves to break you down with it, and Fultz's handle is perfectly fine.

[TucsonClip]

You guys are going to have to let this one go with esqtvd. Ive been having this roundabout with him for years. Its not going to change.

That said, I dont think there is any way we can even get close to the #1 pick without trading for it. The focus should be on waiting for Jerry West to "offer" his suggestions on what to do with the roster and coach. Lot of season left, and in true Clipper fashion, we still have no idea what a full force roster looks like outside of a small sample size.

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

Anfernee Simons may be lacking the athleticism of his namesake Penny Hardaway, but he's supposedly a lights-out shooter with decent athleticism and an all-around game. He's eligible for the 2018 draft as a high school graduate and will be 19 years old in June, otherwise, he's considered a 5-star college recruit. He's also about 6'3" or 6'4" and physically raw, but he sounds like a Jerry-West-type of player with good instincts and apparent maturity.

He also sounds like a taller Steph Curry or maybe more of a Ray Allen and, if he continues to grow and add weight, maybe a more athletic Klay Thompson. I'd keep my eye on and give a hard look with this kid for the upcoming draft for the Clippers.

[Ranma]

Another prospect to keep in mind for the Clippers if we can't get any of the Big 5 atop this draft class (Bagley, Porter, Ayton, Doncic, and Bamba) is Hamidou Diallo. He's of no relation to former Clippers second-round pick Cheick Diallo, but he's long and quite athletic as a wing player. The problem is that he's also raw. I've had my eye on him for quite a while for the Clips, but am concerned with his development so far.

[esqtvd]

Oh, and like Zo Ball, this year's #1 Fultz can't shoot either and doesn't even have Ball's mad ballhandling skills
hey, Sixers are my hometown team and the worst is over and I hope for the best
but no, it wasn't worth it

Ill leave out the rest and focus on this instead. None of this is even remotely true. I can break it all down for you if you want, but... Fultz has a shoulder issue that has been a problem for four months now? He absolutely can shoot. Ball has never been labeled as having a tight handle, let alone moves to break you down with it, and Fultz's handle is perfectly fine.

We'll see. I watched Fultz in summer and in preseason. He was OK but pretty brutal. I guess you also didn't hear he monkeyed with his shot over the summer, and is a bit of a mess.*

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/

As for Zo, I should have written "playmaking." Fultz is nowhere near Zo there. And as for "helping" the Doc discussion and talking about me in the third person, thanks, pal.

[TucsonClip]

We'll see. I watched Fultz in summer and in preseason. He was OK but pretty brutal. I guess you also didn't hear he monkeyed with his shot over the summer, and is a bit of a mess.*

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/

As for Zo, I should have written "playmaking." Fultz is nowhere near Zo there. And as for "helping" the Doc discussion and talking about me in the third person, thanks, pal.

Yes, I have known about it. Why do you think he messed with his shot? His shoulder has been screwed up for months, and I have it on good authority. Welcome to Bryan Colangelo.

Ive been watching Fultz since his HS days, and keep in touch with one of the main scouts from the major services who covered him. His jumper will be fine, but I always thought it would take some adjusting to increase his range. Potential is there, and its certainly not broken, and absolutely does not/should not look like it is now. That is all injury.

Playmaking we agree on, but Fultz is going to create perfectly fine, and is one of his best skills. He isnt on Lonzo's level in creating for others, but he is pretty darn good at it himself. That said, Lonzo is no where near Fultz's ability to create off the bounce for himself.

Regarding your take on the draft historics, I just dont want people going in thinking they are gonna change your mind. I tried it already.

[TucsonClip]

Another prospect to keep in mind for the Clippers if we can't get any of the Big 5 atop this draft class (Bagley, Porter, Ayton, Doncic, and Bamba) is Hamidou Diallo. He's of no relation to former Clippers second-round pick Cheick Diallo, but he's long and quite athletic as a wing player. The problem is that he's also raw. I've had my eye on him for quite a while for the Clips, but am concerned with his development so far.

He has Wiggins-level athleticism. Maybe even better. Hes unreal in that regard. However, she cant shoot a lick. Appears he might be trending up slightly there this season, but I agree with you. Hes the type of guy you take a shot on because of his physical profile alone.

[esqtvd]

We'll see. I watched Fultz in summer and in preseason. He was OK but pretty brutal. I guess you also didn't hear he monkeyed with his shot over the summer, and is a bit of a mess.*

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-colangelo-says-markelle-fultz-changed-shooting-form-before-shoulder-injury/

As for Zo, I should have written "playmaking." Fultz is nowhere near Zo there. And as for "helping" the Doc discussion and talking about me in the third person, thanks, pal.

Yes, I have known about it. Why do you think he messed with his shot? His shoulder has been screwed up for months, and I have it on good authority. Its pretty commonly known. Welcome to Bryan Colangelo.

Ive been watching Fultz since his HS days, and keep in touch with one of the main scouts from the major services who covered him. His jumper will be fine, but I always thought it would take some adjusting to increase his range. Potential is there, and its certainly not broken, and absolutely does not/should not look like it is now. That is all injury.

Playmaking we agree on, but Fultz is going to create perfectly fine, and is one of his best skills. He isnt on Lonzo's level in creating for others, but he is pretty darn good at it himself. That said, Lonzo is no where near Fultz's ability to create off the bounce for himself.

Regarding your take on the draft historics, I just dont want people going in thinking they are gonna change your mind. I tried it already.

True, you'll never convince me the infamous Jeff Green Pick was worth very much. Memphis already flipped it for two 2nd-rounders.

Since the Sixers are my hometown team, I'm happy to hear some guy you know thinks Fultz going to be fine. [Scouts always right. ] But whereas I was blown away by a brief glimpse of Ben Simmons in the 2016 summer league, I had the opposite reaction to Fultz. It's the court presence thing, the "It" factor. I'm not predicting a bust, but I am looking at him to go down as one of the less-whelming #1 overall picks, and another example of why even tanking is a crapshoot.

[That was the topic of discussion: Tanking, not Fultz.]

[TucsonClip]

Agree to disagree on everything. And, as I said at the time, Jeff Green is terrible. Still is, always was.

RE: Fultz... His shoulder was apparently not right in SL either. Did you watch him at Washington? He looks nothing like that for a reason.

[Quake Griffin]

Memphis trading the pick is proof it isn’t worth much.

Boston trading for it isn’t proof of anything.

K.


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[Quake Griffin]

You guys are going to have to let this one go with esqtvd. Ive been having this roundabout with him for years. Its not going to change.

That said, I dont think there is any way we can even get close to the #1 pick without trading for it. The focus should be on waiting for Jerry West to "offer" his suggestions on what to do with the roster and coach. Lot of season left, and in true Clipper fashion, we still have no idea what a full force roster looks like outside of a small sample size.

Isnt that just it?

Shouldn’t we put Jerry in the position to do what he does best - evaluate talent and draft picks? I get that he wont travel as much but that can be mitigated by a video coordinator, coffee, and time at the office.


I’m not as concerned about having the #1 pick even though I like Ayton.
I just want to be in the lottery (because I like this draft), make good picks, find a quality coach. I think FA and trades figure themselves out from there.


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[esqtvd]

Agree to disagree on everything. And, as I said at the time, Jeff Green is terrible. Still is, always was.

RE: Fultz... His shoulder was apparently not right in SL either. Did you watch him at Washington? He looks nothing like that for a reason.

No, but if success in college automatically translated to the NBA, there would be no such thing as busts. And as I said, I'm talking court presence. I could tell Simmons couldn't shoot but he was still awesome. Fultz seemed OK but unless he turns into a Steph Curry sharpshooter, he doesn't seem to have any particular area of his game that jumps out at you. [Obviously Danny Ainge agreed.]

In essence, Ainge and his co-horts on Causeway Street decided Marquelle Fultz is not all that.

What that means is that while Fultz will probably end up being a good player, he won't be a game-changer, multiple all-star and future Hall of Famer. And really, Ainge & Co. feel nobody else is either.

That's all I'm saying. Hey, me and Danny could be wrong. We've been wrong before.

But the question here is tanking: Is it worth enduring a 25-win season, a whole year of misery, just to draft a Markelle Fultz? I say screw that.


And the Jeff Green pick still doesn't move my meter either way. Small change. All he had to do was be better than nothing in the playoffs, and he was. Both CP and BG got injured so we'll never know what might have been.

[MartinToVaught]

I trust West to find the right player for us in the draft. If you can't trust arguably the greatest executive in basketball history, I don't know what to tell you.