Game 16: Utah Jazz @ Orlando Magic (7:00 PM EST)

[rcklsscognition]

I see on reddit AG was throwing towels in the 4th. Anyone see it? What was going on?

[FFBlitzace]

yea and 10 games into a season our "stars" started to talk about shot attemps

Yeah I know, isn't that something? We play and look way better than we have for 5 years, but instead of being happy with the results on the scoreboard, we've got guys concerned about shot attempts. An unwillingness to "pass the torch," if you can even call it a torch, to AG as our best player takes priority over winning games for a couple of these guys. It's still unclear to us as spectators from the outside exactly what went down in that regard, but if it's gone the way it looks like it's gone, that's a zero tolerance type of thing for me. If I was in charge, the offenders would be gone ASAP.

It is clear as day what went down. The front office, the coaches, and some players are all on record telling AG to stay in his lane.

This is not some mystery. They all told us what happened.

If you are on AGs side fine, but realize the entire organization is on the other side of this.

And if that's the case, then they're wrong. He represents our best chance both now and moving forward. I don't feel like that's even an opinionated statement. I feel like it's just an objective truth.

[SOUL]

I see on reddit AG was throwing towels in the 4th. Anyone see it? What was going on?

Frustrated the team was losing by 40 against a team on a B2B that lost against the Nets?

[___Rand___]

What the fudge happened in this game? couldn't watch it tonight. It sounded like a bad match up problem, we were down early and then never got back into the game.

[Optimus_Steel]

Missed the game, WTF happenned? Blown out by 40 something at home against a team missing their best player and playing on the 2nd nite? Seems like this team has shown their true colors the past week, another weak pathetic lottery team. Shame on me for allowing myself to believe they were any good and would make the playoffs finally. Same terrible team as the past 4 seasons. Just same crap every year, just start sending players packing and gather assets.

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[Ducklett]

I don't even have words. Call me when we have players that act like they want to play basketball.

[Magic4champ]

OMG! What just happened? Why didnt we gave a fight? Where was our intensity and hunger? Do we have a problem with the team? Sorry for the over reaction, just a fan from overseas.

[pepe1991]

I see on reddit AG was throwing towels in the 4th. Anyone see it? What was going on?

Frustrated the team was losing by 40 against a team on a B2B that lost against the Nets?

Vogel should trow white towel in the "ring" in middle of a third quater . TKO

[axl_c_cool]

Serious what happened and what's happening with AG, missed it all, someone please explain

[Bensational]

I saw the first half and a bit and had to go out during the 3rd quarter. Looks like it was a good move.

Woeful basketball on display tonight. Any semblance of being a ‘team’ we showed at the start of the season is gone. It’s all me-ball, high post curls and forced attempts. Oh, and zero defense.

I think Isaac has earned a starting role with his defense alone. If we continue to slide, Vogel is bound to make some changes to lineups.

But right now, the biggest imbalance is the way Vuc, Fournier and Gordon are playing (or not playing) together. And Elf all but being pushed out of involvement with that starting unit now that everyone else wants to be a playmaker.

I’m not sure Vogel can get all these guys on the same page. Too many other coaches have already tried and failed with most of these same pieces. Might be time for some proper core changes.

I still hope we can turn it around, though.

[thelead]

I’ve mentally checked out for the 1st time in over 20 years. Don’t even care anymore. WeHam have their work cut out for them and if they choose to trade the wrong guys, I’m out.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Glad I missed this one.


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[Bensational]

yea and 10 games into a season our "stars" started to talk about shot attemps

Yeah I know, isn't that something? We play and look way better than we have for 5 years, but instead of being happy with the results on the scoreboard, we've got guys concerned about shot attempts. An unwillingness to "pass the torch," if you can even call it a torch, to AG as our best player takes priority over winning games for a couple of these guys. It's still unclear to us as spectators from the outside exactly what went down in that regard, but if it's gone the way it looks like it's gone, that's a zero tolerance type of thing for me. If I was in charge, the offenders would be gone ASAP.

It is clear as day what went down. The front office, the coaches, and some players are all on record telling AG to stay in his lane.

This is not some mystery. They all told us what happened.

If you are on AGs side fine, but realize the entire organization is on the other side of this.

I want to see AG blow up, but if Vogel and Forcier are still trying to keep him playing ‘in his lane’, I’m fine with that. But, then they’re going to need options who are clearly better than him at the top of the totem pole. Same way Kawhi had to learn under Duncan and co. Instead, we’ve got Kawhi playing second fiddle to a slightly better Danny Green.

I can understand if AG became frustrated by that, too. He’s mostly an off ball threat right now, but being that relies on the person with the ball finding you when you get in good positions. He can do that, but then watch Fournier force some pretty horrible shots with no repurcussions, so I understand if the next time he decides to just take the ball and force up a bad shot of his own.

This is why we need Payton running point properly and being in control of sharing the ball and shots, cos our big 3’s egos don’t seem to want to allow it themselves.

[shadrock]

I hate following a team that is soft. It is the opposite of what i want from my team and players. Hard to follow this bunch. Im pretty sure you guys know by now what i think the problem is, and i stand by my comments.

[Raptorstopfan]

I'm curious. Does anyone notice since Elfrid return, this team has been losing? Without Elfrid, they won most games. Not blaming Elfrid, just an observation. Sometimes you might have good players but gelling them together might be the problem. Could DJ start and let Elfrid come off the bench? He was excellent coming off the bench last season. What about Jonathan Simmons? Isn't he a starting material? His energy, drive to basket, jump shot and defense are invaluable to this team. Issac also deserves to start.

This would be my linup
Fournier - SG
Issac- C
Simmons - SF
DJ - PG
Gordon - PF. I understand AG had issue plying this position but some how they have to figure this out. This is a lineup that will guarantee victory

[thelead]

I'm curious. Does anyone notice since Elfrid return, this team has been losing? Without Elfrid, they won most games. Not blaming Elfrid, just an observation. Sometimes you might have good players but gelling them together might be the problem. Could DJ start and let Elfrid come off the bench? He was excellent coming off the bench last season. What about Jonathan Simmons? Isn't he a starting material? His energy, drive to basket, jump shot and defense are invaluable to this team. Issac also deserves to start.

This would be my linup
Fournier - SG
Issac- C
Simmons - SF
DJ - PG
Gordon - PF. I understand AG had issue plying this position but some how they have to figure this out. This is a lineup that will guarantee victory

That’s probably what I would roll with once DJ gets back.

BTW, Gordon has been playing PF all year.

[MagicStarwipe]

I will feel like there is a 10 ton weight taken off of my shoulders the day we get rid of Vucevic. I don't even care if we suck afterwards. I just want to see a big man out there with a pair of testicles finally.

[Optimus_Steel]

At this point in over the softness and pathetic effort this team displays year after year. Just feel like i want to see the bottom fall out completely so that management is forced to break up this horrible collection of players and tank properly. Break this team apart please, i can't take this BS anymore. I cant stand to see the same pathetic losers another year.

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[FFBlitzace]

I remember 2 years ago when Vuc's rebounding started to dip under Skiles and I would be critical of him. People would tell me it was because Skiles finally had Vuc playing defense. I literally had a handful of people telling me that good defense and good rebounding were essentially mutually exclusive, and that I was basketball illiterate for thinking otherwise. Fast forward to now, and Vuc falls to 7.1 per game after tonight's dud. He must really be locking the paint down now.

Inb4 an NBA Math graph.

[cb1115]

on top of being a super bad look, i really don't think firing Vogel would accomplish anything. the roster just doesn't fit unless everyone is shooting at an unsustainable rate