All Things Luka Doncic

[Johnny Firpo]

His mid range and finishing ability is improving by the day, and he looks to be quicker as well. He is already a plus athlete in NBA terms, and he has a chance to be a good one if he drops the baby fat. He is never going to be elite, obviously, but it's not gonna be a weakness with his length and coordination.

[reanimator]

Doncic is a good athlete in space. In traffic, his lack of quick twitch is apparent.

[narcolepsy]

10/4/4 in first half vs Real Betis. he had some really nice moves. Real went from -6 to +18 as soon as Campazzo got subbed out and Doncic got keys to the offense. I feel like this is a common theme, I wonder why Lasso doesnt try 1 game with Randle starting instead.

[J_T]

Coach is playing him the absolute minimum possible, which is good at the moment. There will be games where he will have to play much more. With plus 35 win, he could afford to play him only 22 minutes. Easy 13/5/8.

It's funny that you mention Campazzo, With him on court Real was only plus 1. That's quite shocking when the team wins by 35 points and they win every quarter by at least 6 points.

[Don7]

Real would be much better if they had a bunch of shooters around Luka , Campazzo/Causeur are not great fit with him.

But you need also to understand Real , they can´t build roster for Luka when he will be probably in nba next year.

[burek3]

Well, Klemen Prepelič is on the way to Real this winter

[J_T]

I have little doubt that all these Slovenian players linked to Real Madrid are meant to persuade Doncic to stay a year longer. It's probably not going to help but Prepelic is a good player anyway, it's not like they are signing his grandma.

I don't know if Doncic has any preferences for the club that drafts him and we will probably never know. One of his best friends plays for the Knicks so he would probably be ok with him going there. Not gonna happen though, Knicks are too good. My guess is that players do prefer big market teams but in the end it's subjective. Doncic has been living in third largest city in Europe, would have been third largest in US as well.

[King Ken]

His mid range and finishing ability is improving by the day, and he looks to be quicker as well. He is already a plus athlete in NBA terms, and he has a chance to be a good one if he drops the baby fat. He is never going to be elite, obviously, but it's not gonna be a weakness with his length and coordination.

He doesn't look like a plus NBA athlete.

[King Ken]

The hang-time at 4:37 is also nice:

Watch on YouTube

Personally I much prefer this version of Doncic, where scoring is secondary. If teammates hit some open shots he would have been extremely close to a triple-double in just 3 quarters.

As a NBA prospect, I think you'd rather him be a scorer. He's already shown he can get his teammates involved. I guess Real just wants him to win?

He's been taking it too far the last couple of games, starting to get a bit of tunnel-vision, as Thespianoid correctly pointed out.

That clip at :39 scares me. He wasn't covering much ground on defense for that jumpshot. He looked like Dougie Mac defending right there. I am not sold on this guy. I don't see the NBA athleticism in action. Don't give me Joker, he's a center and he's quick and has handles for his position. He C athlete for a SG. He would be fine at SF if he was longer and taller. Like, if he was Gallo's height and length, he would be Larry Bird like. I will say, I like his handle. I think it can improve in the NBA. That's the one plus tool I see outside of shooting touch, quick release, and his vision and passing skill. He's just a really skilled offensive player.

[Nikson]

His mid range and finishing ability is improving by the day, and he looks to be quicker as well. He is already a plus athlete in NBA terms, and he has a chance to be a good one if he drops the baby fat. He is never going to be elite, obviously, but it's not gonna be a weakness with his length and coordination.

He doesn't look like a plus NBA athlete.

How old is he?
Can he improve?

[SportsGuy8]

Even if he doesn't end up being a "plus NBA athlete", his understanding of the game is already at least in the top couple percentage points and it's obviously only going to improve.

It would be a completely different thing if he was a bad athlete, but since he's at least average, his skill-level and understanding of the game should prevail.

The hang-time at 4:37 is also nice:

Watch on YouTube

As a NBA prospect, I think you'd rather him be a scorer. He's already shown he can get his teammates involved. I guess Real just wants him to win?

He's been taking it too far the last couple of games, starting to get a bit of tunnel-vision, as Thespianoid correctly pointed out.

That clip at :39 scares me. He wasn't covering much ground on defense for that jumpshot. He looked like Dougie Mac defending right there. I am not sold on this guy. I don't see the NBA athleticism in action. Don't give me Joker, he's a center and he's quick and has handles for his position. He C athlete for a SG. He would be fine at SF if he was longer and taller. Like, if he was Gallo's height and length, he would be Larry Bird like. I will say, I like his handle. I think it can improve in the NBA. That's the one plus tool I see outside of shooting touch, quick release, and his vision and passing skill. He's just a really skilled offensive player.

You forgot elite rebounding, something that elevates him above most other superbly skilled players that weren't elite athletes. It's that cherry on the cake that basically makes him bust-proof.

[Rasho Brezec]

His mid range and finishing ability is improving by the day, and he looks to be quicker as well. He is already a plus athlete in NBA terms, and he has a chance to be a good one if he drops the baby fat. He is never going to be elite, obviously, but it's not gonna be a weakness with his length and coordination.

He doesn't look like a plus NBA athlete.

How old is he?
Can he improve?

He can improve just as much as anyone else coming into the league so that point is moot.

[Johnny Firpo]

He doesn't look like a plus NBA athlete.

I don't agree at all. He has excellent size, coordination, and length, with above average strength. He is already at a weight where he could comfortably play in the NBA. He is around 225-228. Good speed in space, that's a plus athlete. He has one weakness, and since he will/should play as a PG on offense, with a near elite jumpshot, I don't see how it would really limit him. Not in today's pick & roll heavy, pace and space game, where athleticism becomes less and less important by the day. Skill triumphs today. Is it better to have both? Sure, but it is easier to become a star without elite athleticism today, than probably any time before in the modern NBA.

[UcanUwill]

I am not sure he is plus athlete at all, but some of his mid air finishes around the rim can be very impressive.

[The-Power]

He doesn't look like a plus NBA athlete.

How old is he?
Can he improve?

He can improve just as much as anyone else coming into the league so that point is moot.

If someone is supposed to not have plus NBA athleticism yet then no, pointing out that his athleticism can and will improve is not a ‘moot point‘ – it's actually highly relevant.

[Mirotic12]

His mid range and finishing ability is improving by the day, and he looks to be quicker as well. He is already a plus athlete in NBA terms, and he has a chance to be a good one if he drops the baby fat. He is never going to be elite, obviously, but it's not gonna be a weakness with his length and coordination.

Most of the rotation wings in EuroLeague are obviously more athletic than Doncic. Will his athleticism increase with "NBA training methods" (AKA undetectable designer PEDs)? Seems a bit doubtful to me, since he plays in Real Madrid. A club that enormous, rich, and powerful probably has just as good designer PED tech as any NBA team does.

You are overrating Doncic's athletic level, at least his current one.

I don't agree at all. He has excellent size, coordination, and length, with above average strength. He is already at a weight where he could comfortably play in the NBA. He is around 225-228. Good speed in space, that's a plus athlete. He has one weakness, and since he will/should play as a PG on offense, with a near elite jumpshot, I don't see how it would really limit him. Not in today's pick & roll heavy, pace and space game, where athleticism becomes less and less important by the day. Skill triumphs today. Is it better to have both? Sure, but it is easier to become a star without elite athleticism today, than probably any time before in the modern NBA.

He does not have to be used as a point guard on offense. He actually seems more productive when he plays as a shooting guard on offense. He also does not have a near elite jump shot. He's quite streaky from 3 point range, when a decent level of defensive pressure is applied to him. He's probably at the level of a very good shooter, but not at "near elite".

Considering he's 18, he might very well end up being near elite, or elite in terms of shooting, but he's not there yet.

[J_T]

That clip at :39 scares me.

We all know that I can find a clip that shows any NBA player as a below average player. I watched a while ago a video showing LBJ as player who is not able to finish the games when it matters, making sometimes unbelievable decisions during clutch time, looking like he was panicking. I'd still have him on my team, though.

I don't know if you've been following him closely, haven't seen many posts in this thread. But it's important to note that he has been physically improving and there is no doubt he will massively improve when in NBA. I don't even want to know what they do in NBA to the players, but whatever it is, they don't do it in Real. I look at results, not at bank account. Real Madrid players are not suddenly turning into freaks of nature one by one. I'm not saying it will happen, but I think there is even chance of him becoming above average player physically in every regard. Euro player transformations in NBA that I have witnessed in last 25 years are just scary sometimes.

[916fan]

That clip at :39 scares me.

We all know that I can find a clip that shows any NBA player as a below average player. I watched a while ago a video showing LBJ as player who is not able to finish the games when it matters, making sometimes unbelievable decisions during clutch time, looking like he was panicking. I'd still have him on my team, though.

I don't know if you've been following him closely, haven't seen many posts in this thread. But it's important to note that he has been physically improving and there is no doubt he will massively improve when in NBA. I don't even want to know what they do in NBA to the players, but whatever it is, they don't do it in Real. I look at results, not at bank account. Real Madrid players are not suddenly turning into freaks of nature one by one. I'm not saying it will happen, but I think there is even chance of him becoming above average player physically in every regard. Euro player transformations in NBA that I have witnessed in last 25 years are just scary sometimes.

I think PEDs are common uses in the NBA, but you have to remember that the NBA has a much much better overall strength and conditioning programs than Europe. The NBA is a multi-billion dollar business and there's a heavy dire and emphasis on physic.

The NBA doesn't make non-athletic players more athletic. They make the athletic players stronger, while trying to maintain their same level of quickness. The only player in mind who actually became quicker after going into the NBA is Gordon Hayward. He was faster and more athletic than Doncic, but he went from above average to good/great.

[J_T]

What does it even mean to be athletic or non-athletic? Let's say that we have a certain definition of athleticism. I'd say that in that case you have levels of athleticism... maybe you could say a person is athletic on a scale from 1 to 100. If we do have an athleticism scale 1 - 100 are you saying that it's impossible to move up the scale with proper training? If you say that, I disagree. You can always improve your athleticism.

What many people seem to misunderstand is the underlying genetics. When they say that somebody is not athletic and can never improve, what they usually mean is that genetic material is such that doesn't allow big progress to be made. I have seen no evidence of Luka Doncic being genetically restricted in that regard. One has to know that in general genetic material of people coming from that region of the world is very advantageous for sports. The average height of American men is:
- 5' 9.8'' for white males
- 5' 9.5'' for black males
- 5' 7.1'' for Hispanic males

The average height of so called Dinaric male, covering countries of ex Yugoslavia, is 6' 1'' with additional positive characteristic being slower loss of mobility with more height (in general of course being taller means you are less mobile).


Bottom line would be that being "athletic" is not a birth given right, people get more or less athletic with training. There can be certain genetic disadvantages which makes it harder to reach same level of athleticism as somebody more fortunate, but to say that Doncic can't get more athletic with training is quite a bold claim in my opinion.

I almost forgot to add that I agree with your first paragraph. I have no clue what they are doing, could be completely legal, but whatever it is, it's top notch, no doubt.

[Mirotic12]

That clip at :39 scares me.

We all know that I can find a clip that shows any NBA player as a below average player. I watched a while ago a video showing LBJ as player who is not able to finish the games when it matters, making sometimes unbelievable decisions during clutch time, looking like he was panicking. I'd still have him on my team, though.

I don't know if you've been following him closely, haven't seen many posts in this thread. But it's important to note that he has been physically improving and there is no doubt he will massively improve when in NBA. I don't even want to know what they do in NBA to the players, but whatever it is, they don't do it in Real. I look at results, not at bank account. Real Madrid players are not suddenly turning into freaks of nature one by one. I'm not saying it will happen, but I think there is even chance of him becoming above average player physically in every regard. Euro player transformations in NBA that I have witnessed in last 25 years are just scary sometimes.

I think PEDs are common uses in the NBA, but you have to remember that the NBA has a much much better overall strength and conditioning programs than Europe. The NBA is a multi-billion dollar business and there's a heavy dire and emphasis on physic.

The NBA doesn't make non-athletic players more athletic. They make the athletic players stronger, while trying to maintain their same level of quickness. The only player in mind who actually became quicker after going into the NBA is Gordon Hayward. He was faster and more athletic than Doncic, but he went from above average to good/great.

Real Madrid is considered the biggest sports club in the world. They have the absolute best of the best of the best training programs. In terms of designer PEDs, whatever any NBA team has, I would be very surprised if Real Madrid does not have something similar.

We are talking about freaking Real Madrid here.... sure, you could probably indeed be right if you took some average random European basketball team, that NBA probably has much better training programs, especially for non-EuroLeague teams. But for the biggest EuroLeague teams, especially the ones that are also huge multi-sports clubs, based around football clubs - it simply isn't true in the least.

Those big European clubs spend enormous amounts of money on their training programs. They have the absolute most advanced training programs that exist. No way does the NBA have anything better than huge European clubs like that.