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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1321 » by bwgood77 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:43 pm

BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Phoenix, Miami, Milwaukee could get us into the top 5.

I wouldn't count on that. Teams rarely trade out of the top 5 even if the value seems fair.

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I agree I don't see multiple picks getting the team into the top 5. But the Suns will bepretty close and maybe the ping pong balls will go right for them. Right now, the team is 6th with the Clippers. Clippers should get better. I can see the Suns easily being top 5 this year

Plus, if they keep Ulis and James at PG - they will get there :) - meaning top 5


Not sure why some see teams trading out of the top five. I suppose that means they would trade out of the top 5 if they were in that team's shoes, because that's the realistic way to look at it. A bunch of teams are tanking for a reason. The only reason one might trade out of the top 5 is because one or two of the top prospects disappoint and fall in the rankings, though that just might mean someone else worked their way in from being impressive.

This past year Boston actually traded down but it took a top 5 pick from the Lakers or an unprotected Kings pick the following year to move down two spots and it was likely because they liked Tatum as much as Fultz anyway and didn't need a PG and Philly definitely needed a shooting PG since they had a ton of forwards, one being a point.

Trading Fultz for Tatum and that top 5 Lakers pick or unprotected Kings pick looks like a huge win for Boston unless Fultz comes back as a super stud though.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1322 » by bwgood77 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:52 pm

asudevil wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
sunsbum wrote:I think we will be super aggressive with our picks and trade up for a guy like Ayton or Donic. Booker is obviously ready, Bender looks like he will be ready to contribute regularly next year and I think Jackson just needs the rest of this year to adjust to NBA speed. Warren is ready to 19/6 on 50% shooting. I really think and hope with a good pick this year we will be ready to compete for a late playoff spot next year.


Yeah, I also think that this will be McD's strategy, unless we luck out with a top3 pick of our own - after all these years of bad luck.
Only question is: will there be anyone who gives up a player like Ayton or Doncic for 3-4 lower picks and/or 1-2 young guys.
As we have seen with all the Boston/Brooklyn picks for (was it Winslow, or Kaminsky? I can't remember) - not very likely.
At least if I were offered the 6th+9th+15th+35th+2021Miami for Ayton or Doncic, I would say no, pretty sure. And these spots are very good/unlikely places for the Miami and the Bucks to land on.


Not to be a pessimist, but there is no way the suns move up into the top5.

Every team right now at the bottom has 3 things in common.

a.) they have no bad contacts
b.) they have plenty of cap space already
c.) they are not high priority FA destinations

and like you've pointed out already, if the Suns traded OUT of the top5 for a bunch of lesser picks i'd be PISSED.

At this point, we are in one of those positions where we are damned if we win and damned if we lose. If we win, then we lessen our chances at a game changing pick, and if we lose it means this board will become insufferable and these young guys we have arent progressing.


Yeah, no teams trading out if the same top 5 prospects are thought of in the same clear cut top 5 as they are now. I mean if we are living in fantasy land maybe, but we don't.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1323 » by bwgood77 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:52 pm

asudevil wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
sunsbum wrote:I think we will be super aggressive with our picks and trade up for a guy like Ayton or Donic. Booker is obviously ready, Bender looks like he will be ready to contribute regularly next year and I think Jackson just needs the rest of this year to adjust to NBA speed. Warren is ready to 19/6 on 50% shooting. I really think and hope with a good pick this year we will be ready to compete for a late playoff spot next year.


Yeah, I also think that this will be McD's strategy, unless we luck out with a top3 pick of our own - after all these years of bad luck.
Only question is: will there be anyone who gives up a player like Ayton or Doncic for 3-4 lower picks and/or 1-2 young guys.
As we have seen with all the Boston/Brooklyn picks for (was it Winslow, or Kaminsky? I can't remember) - not very likely.
At least if I were offered the 6th+9th+15th+35th+2021Miami for Ayton or Doncic, I would say no, pretty sure. And these spots are very good/unlikely places for the Miami and the Bucks to land on.


Not to be a pessimist, but there is no way the suns move up into the top5.

Every team right now at the bottom has 3 things in common.

a.) they have no bad contacts
b.) they have plenty of cap space already
c.) they are not high priority FA destinations

and like you've pointed out already, if the Suns traded OUT of the top5 for a bunch of lesser picks i'd be PISSED.

At this point, we are in one of those positions where we are damned if we win and damned if we lose. If we win, then we lessen our chances at a game changing pick, and if we lose it means this board will become insufferable and these young guys we have arent progressing.


Yeah, no teams trading out if the same top 5 prospects are thought of in the same clear cut top 5 as they are now. I mean if we are living in fantasy land maybe, but we don't.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1324 » by bwgood77 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:52 pm

asudevil wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
sunsbum wrote:I think we will be super aggressive with our picks and trade up for a guy like Ayton or Donic. Booker is obviously ready, Bender looks like he will be ready to contribute regularly next year and I think Jackson just needs the rest of this year to adjust to NBA speed. Warren is ready to 19/6 on 50% shooting. I really think and hope with a good pick this year we will be ready to compete for a late playoff spot next year.


Yeah, I also think that this will be McD's strategy, unless we luck out with a top3 pick of our own - after all these years of bad luck.
Only question is: will there be anyone who gives up a player like Ayton or Doncic for 3-4 lower picks and/or 1-2 young guys.
As we have seen with all the Boston/Brooklyn picks for (was it Winslow, or Kaminsky? I can't remember) - not very likely.
At least if I were offered the 6th+9th+15th+35th+2021Miami for Ayton or Doncic, I would say no, pretty sure. And these spots are very good/unlikely places for the Miami and the Bucks to land on.


Not to be a pessimist, but there is no way the suns move up into the top5.

Every team right now at the bottom has 3 things in common.

a.) they have no bad contacts
b.) they have plenty of cap space already
c.) they are not high priority FA destinations

and like you've pointed out already, if the Suns traded OUT of the top5 for a bunch of lesser picks i'd be PISSED.

At this point, we are in one of those positions where we are damned if we win and damned if we lose. If we win, then we lessen our chances at a game changing pick, and if we lose it means this board will become insufferable and these young guys we have arent progressing.


Yeah, no teams trading out if the same top 5 prospects are thought of in the same clear cut top 5 as they are now. I mean if we are living in fantasy land maybe, but we don't.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1325 » by Puff » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:53 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:5 players in the league that have played 300 minutes and average 14 points, 14 rebounds per 36:

Drummond, Capela, Howard, Kanter, Len.

I think because of the UFA narrative we're not allowed to get our hopes up but if he had signed a 40/4 deal we'd be pointing these things out as good value.


This is why per 36 is stupid!

Len sucks and would never avg 14/14 if he avg 14/14 with the ability to block he would be a stud! To bad he is horrible


He does block. Len is a very solid rebounder and can be a good shot blocker...has been in the past. What makes him look so bad to many and they let it influence their overall analysis imo is that his offense is so clumsy at times it's cringeworthy. That being said he has had some very nice finishes at times when he has been set up for baskets lately.

All in all it doesn't matter because I doubt we keep him. It will be interesting if anyone else gives him in offer though with so few teams needing centers and having cap space, and a number of better options on the market this summer.


I have seen more improvement lately from Alex and I have been a huge detractor in the past.

I really think we need to keep an open mind on him. I do not know if it is a change in coaching or the addition of Monroe that has sparked his improvement. I think it could be both. I do not think Chandler has done much at all to help improve Alex, for sure not on the offensive end. Monroe has some pretty slick moves around the basket that is where I want to see Len improve most. He has to finish or get fouled. He certainly is big enough and appears to be pretty athletic as well.

I have an open mind on Alex Len and am not in a hurry to move him at this time.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1326 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:32 pm

https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/EEdP

At Devin Booker’s 21st birthday in NY. Say what you want about Robert Sarver but players love him. The fans..... not so much. Lol


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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1327 » by Kerrsed » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:39 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/EEdP

At Devin Booker’s 21st birthday in NY. Say what you want about Robert Sarver but players love him. The fans..... not so much. Lol


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No.

Players (Only our own) TOLERATE him, and thats because he signs the checks.

Nothing a young rich african-american kid loves more than hanging out with a 60 year old white guy with authoritative powers over them.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1328 » by LukasBMW » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:53 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/EEdP

At Devin Booker’s 21st birthday in NY. Say what you want about Robert Sarver but players love him. The fans..... not so much. Lol


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The players do not love Robert Sarver.

No one loves Robert Sarver

Not an insider, but I know this for a FACT: Sarver is disliked by many many people in the community outside of Basketball. That's a FACT. Don't ask me how I know.

And of course, let's not forget the overwhelming evidence that suggests he is not liked by many in the NBA.

-David Stern hated him because Sarver did not bow to him.
-The players union hated him because he was so "one sided" during negotiations.
-Dragic felt disrespected...and left...and he was actually "close" with Sarver at one time.
-Kerr felt disrespected and left

And I doubt Blesdoe, the twins, IT, etc would have nice things to say about him.

Sure the IT situation was McDonough's fault, the Bledsoe situation was Rich Paul's fault, and the twins were punks who forced their way out of town with their behavior...but look back further and even players from the SSOL area did not like him.

Marion? Felt disrespected.
JJ? Felt disrespected
Nash? Should have retired here.

And let's not forget this:

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017/10/29/16566806/phoenix-suns-paul-shirley-born-on-third-thinks-he-hit-a-triple-robert-sarver

Sarver took a perennial winner and destroyed it. His only success came from the team he inherited from Colangelo.

P.S. No youngster (of any race or color) wants old people (of any race or color) trying to relive their youth and act cool by partying with you at the club. You wouldn't have seen Colangelo popping bottles and taking selfies.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1329 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:21 pm

LukasBMW wrote:P.S. No youngster (of any race or color) wants old people (of any race or color) trying to relive their youth and act cool by partying with you at the club. You wouldn't have seen Colangelo popping bottles and taking selfies.


Tl;dr :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude, like, is there such as youth privilege? Because if so, you may need to check it!

I'm not very old but I'm wise enough to know that there are plenty of old people who are more fun to be around than your average 23 year old. "Trying to relieve their youth and act cool by partying with you at the club." LOL what?? Are they partying with you at the club or not???

At my workplace, the younger generation is thought of as comparatively lame because we aren't partying and screwing around like the boomers before us. The cool people around the office are who they are and it has very little correlation with their age....

I guess you know things about Sarver that we don't. Okay, but your generalization seems a level or two below common sense.

LukasBMW wrote:Not an insider, but I know this for a FACT: Sarver is disliked by many many people in the community outside of Basketball. That's a FACT. Don't ask me how I know.

And of course, let's not forget the overwhelming evidence that suggests he is not liked by many in the NBA.

-David Stern hated him because Sarver did not bow to him.
-The players union hated him because he was so "one sided" during negotiations.
-Dragic felt disrespected...and left...and he was actually "close" with Sarver at one time.
-Kerr felt disrespected and left


- Re David Stern: Isn't that a good thing?
- Re negotiations: Yes, I read that, too. I have a hard time taking a clear side in these negotiations and an even harder time finding faith in hearsay.
- Re Umm.... does that weigh for or against Sarver?
- Re Yes, and this is about where Sarver's learning curve turned. He made those really stupid signings as interim GM, then hired the guy who had sold him one of those players, who hired the league's worst GM and the second-worst coach in team history in Lindsey Hunter. Of course the VERY WORST was Terry Porter, hired by none other than the departing Steve Kerr, who chased away D'Antoni and pissed off his MVP and MVP's best friend Raja Bell with a new, stupid, losing system. [A bit tangential, but Porter was perhaps the worst head coach signing in the history of the league. He may well have cost this team a title. Hiring him was indeed a fireable offense, largely made up for the success of the '10-'11 squad.] IMO Sarver ultimately righted the tailspin when he acquired McDonough and followed the rebuilding strategy all the way through. As a reward, I do think Sarver is about to have a perennial playoff and then perennial contender on his hands.

LukasBMW wrote:Marion? Felt disrespected.
JJ? Felt disrespected
Nash? Should have retired here.


Marion felt disrespected by the fans and the media. He was partly right, and his comments got blown out of proportion.

Who cares about JJ and his one good year here?

Nash gave us a departing present with those LAL picks. WAT are you talking about?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1330 » by noelphx » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:36 pm

FWIW, I had a chance to talk to George Maloof about a year and a half ago. I expressed my displeasure about Sarver owning the Suns and he said he really liked him. I told him I wish he would sell the Suns. I'm sure I didn't endear myself to him especially since he sold his team.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1331 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:32 am

If the top 5 remains as clear cut nobody will be trading out but history shows prospects and tiers never remain the same for 9 months.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1332 » by Frank Lee » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:40 am

Don't know so much about these prospects... but IMO, we dont need one thats going to take 3 years to learn how to play this game.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1333 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:44 am

Funny. This was a 3 or 4 player draft last summer. Yet, so far, the best players are the likes of Kuzma, Markannen, Dillon Brooks. To me, the draft gets really hyped in first few picks and the middle picks get ignored.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1334 » by Qwigglez » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:02 am

jcsunsfan wrote:Funny. This was a 3 or 4 player draft last summer. Yet, so far, the best players are the likes of Kuzma, Markannen, Dillon Brooks. To me, the draft gets really hyped in first few picks and the middle picks get ignored.

It's been happening a lot lately IMO.
If we did a redraft of 2014, Warren would go top 10.
If we did a redraft of 2015, Booker would go top 3 behind KAT, KP.

I think McD might be better at drafting in the middle of the first rather than the early part of the draft. He might just be going off hype and media.

Anyway, I feel like the biggest thing going for later draft picks is they aren't getting paid as well so they stay hungry. And I don't mean Anthony Bennett hungry.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1335 » by Qwigglez » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:10 am

Frank Lee wrote:Don't know so much about these prospects... but IMO, we dont need one thats going to take 3 years to learn how to play this game.


Yes. So everyone is all in on this timeline because of how successful the Sixers are looking now. But their prospects were ready to compete from day 1. Embiid, if without the injury would have been good to go his rookie year, Simmons too. Fultz looked well in college last year, and I'm thinking it's just his injured shoulder that is causing him to play so poorly in the games he's played this year.

Us on the other hand are getting players who are taking years to develop. I would like to get someone who can play from day 1 in this upcoming draft, but unfortunately we likely have to get a top 3 pick and that isn't happening.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1336 » by Qwigglez » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:26 am

I saw this mentioned somewhere else but what about this trade proposal?

Suns get-
DeAndre Jordan
Patrick Beverly

Clippers get-
Greg Monroe
Alex Len
2018 Miami 1st, Bucks 1st

Shores up where we needed help the most at PG and C. We become a defensive team overnight and imagine Jackson adapting quickly, and Bender starting. Beverly/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Jordan is a very good defensive unit.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1337 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:37 am

Qwigglez wrote:I saw this mentioned somewhere else but what about this trade proposal?

Suns get-
DeAndre Jordan
Patrick Beverly

Clippers get-
Greg Monroe
Alex Len
2018 Miami 1st, Bucks 1st

Shores up where we needed help the most at PG and C. We become a defensive team overnight and imagine Jackson adapting quickly, and Bender starting. Beverly/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Jordan is a very good defensive unit.

Unless Clippers are committed to rebuild I don't see them doing it. I like the players we're getting back since I think they fit well with Booker but I can't see DAJ sticking around or we'd be paying top dollar to keep him, which I don't want to. This deal then becomes two 1st rounders, the rights to Len, and Monroe for Patrick Beverley (and an expensive resigned DAJ). Don't think I'd go through with it
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1338 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:39 am

Qwigglez wrote:I saw this mentioned somewhere else but what about this trade proposal?

Suns get-
DeAndre Jordan
Patrick Beverly

Clippers get-
Greg Monroe
Alex Len
2018 Miami 1st, Bucks 1st

Shores up where we needed help the most at PG and C. We become a defensive team overnight and imagine Jackson adapting quickly, and Bender starting. Beverly/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Jordan is a very good defensive unit.

I like Jordan but why not just wait until this summer and throw a bunch of money at him when he opts out. The two picks is too much for a potential partial season rental.

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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1339 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:47 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I saw this mentioned somewhere else but what about this trade proposal?

Suns get-
DeAndre Jordan
Patrick Beverly

Clippers get-
Greg Monroe
Alex Len
2018 Miami 1st, Bucks 1st

Shores up where we needed help the most at PG and C. We become a defensive team overnight and imagine Jackson adapting quickly, and Bender starting. Beverly/Booker/Jackson/Bender/Jordan is a very good defensive unit.

I like Jordan but why not just wait until this summer and throw a bunch of money at him when he opts out. The two picks is too much for a potential partial season rental.

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Good point, I'd rather go this route. I still don't really want DAJ though
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1340 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:09 am

Overall I probably wouldn't trade for a center right now. I love bamba and ayton and if you don't land one of them that's a position they could adress in FA this summer. There just isn't enough teams with cap room and needs at center to pay everyone on the market.

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