Game 19: Orlando Magic (8-10) @ Boston Celtics (16-3) 11/24 7:30PM ET

[MagicStarwipe]

When’s the last time we “gave the keys” to any young guys?

Vuc still has the keys. Try to take them off him and send him to the bench and he'll whine to the media about it. But he loves Orlando, so he's amazing.

[pepe1991]

When’s the last time we “gave the keys” to any young guys?

[OrlChamps2030]

Don't do it to yourself guys, Isaac doesn't even play enough to be big contributor to this. That's just giving up hope that your rookie will turn season around, you are setting yourself to disappointment.

Magic hot start was made on heels of unrealistic shooting along with some lucky breaks with injuries ( during first weeks Leonard, Parker, IT, Porzingis, Conley and Batum didn't play against them, that's basically one allstar roster )

People are setting themselves up for some serious disappointment if they think Isaac missing is the reason this team looks garbage

[pepe1991]

Don't do it to yourself guys, Isaac doesn't even play enough to be big contributor to this. That's just giving up hope that your rookie will turn season around, you are setting yourself to disappointment.

Magic hot start was made on heels of unrealistic shooting along with some lucky breaks with injuries ( during first weeks Leonard, Parker, IT, Porzingis, Conley and Batum didn't play against them, that's basically one allstar roster )

People are setting themselves up for some serious disappointment if they think Isaac missing is the reason this team looks garbage

Meh, whole Magic situation is clear sign of lact of direction that goes on and on for years.
They have some medicore "core" that is good enough to not be top 4 worst in the league, in same time they simply are not good enough to compete for high playoff spot. Stuck in limbo.
Some good assets were wasted in bad trades, cap space wasted on bad players and even if you like guys like Ross, Vučević or Simmons they are type of guys that would help good team and do literally nothing for teams like Magic.
Teams like Magic are too scared to suck for next 3 years with purpose, and they end up sucking for 5 years by accident.

[OrlandO]

Honestly nobody on our team is good defensively. They're all out of position all the damn time. Even Isaac. He just has special talent to recover more often than not. And you have to wonder why. I know some of these players are capable of being good defenders, but none of them are. None of them. So what is it?

Should have hired Dan Burke.

[Xatticus]

Vogel is the best option as a coach right now. Fire him and hire Who? Please tell me who is going to be a better option at this point? It’s bad enough we can’t sign or trade for star players. If we keep firing coaches, they’re not even going to want to come here


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Fortunately for us, this isn't much of a problem. There are only 30 NBA head coaching jobs on the planet and there are a lot of people that want them.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Coaching is the red herring. The roster still lacks elite talent.

I haven't been impressed by Vogel (evidenced by my frequent sarcastic remarks at his expense during games), but I agree. I'm convinced these guys just couldn't win regardless of who was coaching. Pacers fans won't tell you he was perfect by any means, but they have plenty of positive things to say about him. No point continuing the coaching carousel when we know for a fact that our players can't win.

Vogel had an elite player in George which I brought up countless times when comparing Skiles and Vogel. We lack elite talent therefore we will not win. Pretty simple
We're going to lose again tonight.

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[GameOver25]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

[pepe1991]

"The starting group of Elfrid Payton, Evan Fournier, Terrence Ross, Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon has a -10.7 net rating in the last 11 games. And it has nothing to do with their offense. The group puts up a 117.3 defensive rating."

from orlandomagicdaily

[ChosenSavior]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

He just permeates that loser stench. Tired of him slapping the ball out of bounds every time he makes a mistake which is frequent. Tired of seeing him sulking whenever he can't make his jumpers like that is the only offense he can provide. Lastly, I'm tired of him pretending to be a team player when he hasn't been anything but that.

[OrlandO]

"The starting group of Elfrid Payton, Evan Fournier, Terrence Ross, Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon has a -10.7 net rating in the last 11 games. And it has nothing to do with their offense. The group puts up a 117.3 defensive rating."

from orlandomagicdaily

Even our bloggers are lazy. Elf hasn't even played 11 games total.
During the losing streak they have 98.8 ORTG and 118.1 DRTG. It has to do with defense AND offense, especially considering this team only plays hard on defense when their shots are falling.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

He just permeates that loser stench. Tired of him slapping the ball out of bounds every time he makes a mistake which is frequent. Tired of seeing him sulking whenever he can't make his jumpers like that is the only offense he can provide. Lastly, I'm tired of him pretending to be a team player when he hasn't been anything but that.

offensive struggles? No defense? We talking about biz or Vuc? If this guys thinks Nik is bad in those areas wait until Biz starts full time. He isnt even close to being the most problematic center on this team. I'm all about change when it's needed but currently People are just looking for a scapegoat during a little losing streak imo and the most tenured player is just the easiest target, because it wasnt a problem when we were winning was it? It's obvious we can't win with this team as a whole because we lack elite talent not because of any one player.


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[OrlandO]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

Do they mention how bad Gordon's defense has been? Because he's been just as bad if not worse during this losing streak and he's supposed to be our best athlete and defender.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

Do they mention how bad Gordon's defense has been? Because he's been just as bad if not worse during this losing streak and he's supposed to be our best athlete and defender.

Well Gordon is shiny and new so of course not.


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[j-ragg]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

Do they mention how bad Gordon's defense has been? Because he's been just as bad if not worse during this losing streak and he's supposed to be our best athlete and defender.

Well Gordon is shiny and new so of course not.


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He also hasn’t been doing that for 6 years now so there’s a slightly bigger sample size for Vuc.

[GameOver25]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

Do they mention how bad Gordon's defense has been? Because he's been just as bad if not worse during this losing streak and he's supposed to be our best athlete and defender.

Gordon has been bad also, definitely surprised his defense has slipped. I used to watch him and he was very solid at not allowing the offensive player to get by him.

[PennytoShaq]

Don't do it to yourself guys, Isaac doesn't even play enough to be big contributor to this. That's just giving up hope that your rookie will turn season around, you are setting yourself to disappointment.

Magic hot start was made on heels of unrealistic shooting along with some lucky breaks with injuries ( during first weeks Leonard, Parker, IT, Porzingis, Conley and Batum didn't play against them, that's basically one allstar roster )

People are setting themselves up for some serious disappointment if they think Isaac missing is the reason this team looks garbage

No one thinks that. But the team's defense is a lot better with Isaac. Vogel said that exact thing as well. When you have a guy who's 7 feet and that good at weak side help, it makes a difference.

[PennytoShaq]

Got this from OMD. So ready to move on from him. Hopefully WeHam are hitting the phones hard. He hit it on the nail with the draining part. We can all see it as well.

From Philip Rossman-Reich.....

"The Orlando Magic’s defense has been in shambles for several weeks now. It is a problem that has many sources and should not be pinned on one player. But Nikola Vucevic‘s inconsistent play defensively has been especially egregious. His inability to step up and defend pick and rolls or help contain ball handlers has broken a lot of what the Magic want to do.
None of this is new, I suppose. That has been Nikola Vucevic’s problem for the better part of five years. And it becomes more pronounced when his offense struggles — 12 points, 11 rebounds, 6-for-13 shooting. But Vucevic also seems to drain the Magic of their energy sometimes.

His poor defense can break the team up a bit. The center position is so important to what the team wants to do on that end. Maybe Orlando is asking too much of Vucevic. But he has shown himself capable for stretches. In any case, his frustration is clear when he misses shots. And it seems to infect the team. As a team leader, Orlando simply needs more precision and composure."

Do they mention how bad Gordon's defense has been? Because he's been just as bad if not worse during this losing streak and he's supposed to be our best athlete and defender.

It definitely has been. I guess with AG this is uncharacteristic, but with Vuc it is expected.

Really not sure why AG has been so bad lately, but he deserves to be called out as well. To Vogel's credit, he has been punishing him.

[MagicStarwipe]

AG has been bad, but do we think he'd be this bad a defender if he were on the Spurs? Same goes for a lot of players on this team.

And yes, I think Vucevic's body language is toxic. It's time to move on from him whether you're a fan of his or not.