lilfishi22 wrote:bwgood77 wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:I'm not saying you're wrong but fact is, most players don't amount to anything (ie journeyman, 3-4th man off the bench). We can come up a lot of reasons and give more time to both players for playing under a yoga teacher in their rookie year and the fact that they are younger than their draft class but true talent generally shows up early. JJ for example, I can already see potential for elite level defense. I don't know how he'll develop offensively but he's already got great defense on his side. Bender, I can see his IQ and where he could fit but for a 4th pick....not sure yet. Chriss I'm a little more unsure about. Those posts above about Dudley's offseason comments is unnerving and a lot of times, NBA prospects don't pan out because of exactly three things, effort, attitude and understanding of the game. But for where those players were drafted (Len, Bender in the top 5), you kind of hope for a star level player. We've whiffed hard on Len and I don't see star potential in Bender. Chriss has star level athleticism but journeyman IQ.
I guess what I'm saying is, it's fine to be patient with young players and there are certainly outliers when it comes to players who come into their own towards to end of their rookie contract but I'm in the boat that don't think it's realistic to expect a ton from young players who don't show much in their first two seasons. Right now, Bender logging a 9/6.5 career per36 , while Chriss is on looking at 15/7 career per36. Not saying that's where their career will end up, just saying if they don't improve by the end of this season, that's what their first two season looks like.
I am not expecting either player to turn into a star and Chriss' attitude and work ethic leave a lot to be desired. Nobody taken in that top 8 after three is looking any good yet. Sure we could have taken someone more ready like Sabonis who has looked good and is more of a sure thing but we went with the big risk big potential upside guys.
I am not saying I expect them to be great but I won't give up or proclaim they are a lost cause yet.
I agree after two years if those are their per 36 stats at a stretch of games near the end of their second year that it's not great.
I'm just not sure about the draft anymore. If we can get a Booker and TJ at #13 and #14 but Len at #4. I kind of feel like McD's draft record is at best, passable because of those two finds but outside of Booker/TJ, it's very spotty.
It's just tough that he had high picks in bad drafts. No matter who he took in that Len draft it would look bad unless he took Giannis or Gobert or McCollum that early but that would have been far higher than consensus.
As for the 16 draft, it might have been best to just keep the 13th pick and 27th pick and Bogdan and try your luck with those instead of packaging to move up. At least more shots at finding someone good.
Seems like Suns have often done well with late lotto or even picks into the early 20s. Going back to 94...
94 - Person at 23
95 - Finley at 21
96 - Nash at 15
No first round picks in 97, 98
99 - Marion at 9
25th pick in 00, no first rounder in 01
02 - Amare at 9
Sarver took over a couple summers later and we started selling and trading them.
Basically you can get good players anywhere and many top players will bust.
Our bigger problem right now is that we don't have any sort of semblance of a long term plan. Sarver goes from wanting McD to compete to being fine with a rebuild.
They don't have a firm long term coaching/development plan in place so the players have basically been in no mans land ever since last summer (16).
They simply gave Watson more than he could handle since he had only been a D league assistant coach and he was in over his head from the beginning.
