The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[TroyD92]

I recently said I was done posting on this subject but I must correct a suggestion made by a poster. NBA contracts don't have any protections for the teams if a player is often injured during the duration of the contract. There are some performance incentives like how many games played during the season but those are usually minor amounts of money compared to the full amount of the contract.

If the Bucks give Jabari a 20 million a year deal for 3-5 years, there going to pay that amount and that amount will count against the cap regardless if he is able to play or not unless he were to retire. NBA contracts are guaranteed. This is not the NFL.

I could live with the Bucks giving Jabari a 5 year 100 million dollar deal if the Bucks were to have team options for the first two years. This would not be my first choice but would make sense. That way if he gets hurt again or can't perform at a high level the Bucks have options. It wasn't too long ago Miami's ability to add talent was held hostage by the Chris Bosch saga where Bosch refused to retire and insisted he would still play. That situation took years to resolve. We don't want to be in that same situation.

Embiid has some pretty major coverage on his contract.

Miami was held hostage by Wade being a pube.

Has anyone talked about giving Jabari a 5 year deal? i don't think I've ever seen that even brought up besides by CHL to carry on his agenda.

[LogitechBucks]

I recently said I was done posting on this subject but I must correct a suggestion made by a poster. NBA contracts don't have any protections for the teams if a player is often injured during the duration of the contract. There are some performance incentives like how many games played during the season but those are usually minor amounts of money compared to the full amount of the contract.

If the Bucks give Jabari a 20 million a year deal for 3-5 years, there going to pay that amount and that amount will count against the cap regardless if he is able to play or not unless he were to retire. NBA contracts are guaranteed. This is not the NFL.

I could live with the Bucks giving Jabari a 5 year 100 million dollar deal if the Bucks were to have team options for the first two years. This would not be my first choice but would make sense. That way if he gets hurt again or can't perform at a high level the Bucks have options. It wasn't too long ago Miami's ability to add talent was held hostage by the Chris Bosch saga where Bosch refused to retire and insisted he would still play. That situation took years to resolve. We don't want to be in that same situation.

Embiid has some pretty major coverage on his contract.

Miami was held hostage by Wade being a pube.

Has anyone talked about giving Jabari a 5 year deal? i don't think I've ever seen that even brought up besides by CHL to carry on his agenda.

I said he is likely to get anywhere from 3-5 years. I said I wouldn't get to upset if it was 5 years if the first two years the Bucks had a team option. After two years with no recurring injury to the same knee its likely he could be ok like Eric Gordon is now for Houston.

[lvckv]

Damn, people really posting that Jabari's defense isn't going to be worse than Middleton?

Dude was one of the worst defenders in the entire league last year. Our team performed better when he sat than when he was on the court.

Hopefully he can get a run of games in before the trade deadline. There is 0 chance he will work in this starting lineup with this team continuing to play with Kidd's defensive scheme. It's either Kidd or Jabari, and it doesn't feel like Kidd is going anywhere, or installing a much more conservative defense anytime soon.

[Ayt]

I recently said I was done posting on this subject but I must correct a suggestion made by a poster. NBA contracts don't have any protections for the teams if a player is often injured during the duration of the contract. There are some performance incentives like how many games played during the season but those are usually minor amounts of money compared to the full amount of the contract.

If the Bucks give Jabari a 20 million a year deal for 3-5 years, there going to pay that amount and that amount will count against the cap regardless if he is able to play or not unless he were to retire. NBA contracts are guaranteed. This is not the NFL.

I could live with the Bucks giving Jabari a 5 year 100 million dollar deal if the Bucks were to have team options for the first two years. This would not be my first choice but would make sense. That way if he gets hurt again or can't perform at a high level the Bucks have options. It wasn't too long ago Miami's ability to add talent was held hostage by the Chris Bosch saga where Bosch refused to retire and insisted he would still play. That situation took years to resolve. We don't want to be in that same situation.

Embiid has some pretty major coverage on his contract.

Miami was held hostage by Wade being a pube.

Has anyone talked about giving Jabari a 5 year deal? i don't think I've ever seen that even brought up besides by CHL to carry on his agenda.

I said he is likely to get anywhere from 3-5 years. I said I wouldn't get to upset if it was 5 years if the first two years the Bucks had a team option. After two years with no recurring injury to the same knee its likely he could be ok like Eric Gordon is now for Houston.

A contract like that isn't legal under the CBA. There can be only one option year and it must be the final season of the deal.

[hege53190]

I really hope Horst and the owners have the balls to negotiate next year. There should be no sweetheart offer. Offer a team friendly deal and let Jabari find a better one. Nobody has cap space next year. The only problem I see is Chicago getting stupid. If that happens, you let Jabari walk.

[leroyjw10]

I hadn't seen this yet, but hard not to be encouraged. There are obvious concerns, but the dude can straight up get buckets. I can't help but envision him destroying second units in three months.

Read on Twitter

[Diggr14]

The crappy thing about the Bledsoe deal and the Snell deal this past summer..

Will the Bucks go way over the cap to match an RFA deal for Parker?

Probably not. But they do have deals that will be expiring in 2018 to trade, but it would cost another 1st to unload them likely.

[coolhandluke121]

Has anyone talked about giving Jabari a 5 year deal? i don't think I've ever seen that even brought up besides by CHL to carry on his agenda.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There are tons of people who have said they would be okay with $15-20m per Jabari. And my "agenda" has clearly been what would have beenbest for the Bucks. Anybody still debating that is in a special kind of denial that makes Dwight Howard look like amateurs.

[AussieBuck]

I hadn't seen this yet, but hard not to be encouraged. There are obvious concerns, but the dude can straight up get buckets. I can't help but envision him destroying second units in three months.

Read on Twitter

Want to see a whole lot of more of the style of play at 1:30. Shoulder then dunk should be a staple of a dude that strong. Also the rim shaking after the 1:50 play was nice.

[LogitechBucks]

Embiid has some pretty major coverage on his contract.

Miami was held hostage by Wade being a pube.

Has anyone talked about giving Jabari a 5 year deal? i don't think I've ever seen that even brought up besides by CHL to carry on his agenda.

I said he is likely to get anywhere from 3-5 years. I said I wouldn't get to upset if it was 5 years if the first two years the Bucks had a team option. After two years with no recurring injury to the same knee its likely he could be ok like Eric Gordon is now for Houston.

A contract like that isn't legal under the CBA. There can be only one option year and it must be the final season of the deal.

This information is false. See link read DJ Wilson's Contract.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/milwaukee_bucks/

[Aaron It Out]

I said he is likely to get anywhere from 3-5 years. I said I wouldn't get to upset if it was 5 years if the first two years the Bucks had a team option. After two years with no recurring injury to the same knee its likely he could be ok like Eric Gordon is now for Houston.

A contract like that isn't legal under the CBA. There can be only one option year and it must be the final season of the deal.

This information is false. See link read DJ Wilson's Contract.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/milwaukee_bucks/

That information was true... are you looking at the Qualifying Offer as if it's his contract year? Wilson is on a 4 year contract with a 2 year team option after year 2, just like every other first round pick.

That link also shows us paying Larry Sanders $5m this year and then nothing after, when in reality we're paying him $2m until 2021. Even if you were interpreting things correctly, HoopsHype is generally inaccurate when it comes to team salaries.

[Ayt]

I said he is likely to get anywhere from 3-5 years. I said I wouldn't get to upset if it was 5 years if the first two years the Bucks had a team option. After two years with no recurring injury to the same knee its likely he could be ok like Eric Gordon is now for Houston.

A contract like that isn't legal under the CBA. There can be only one option year and it must be the final season of the deal.

This information is false. See link read DJ Wilson's Contract.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/milwaukee_bucks/

Contracts for rookies drafted in the 1st round are structured differently than extensions. The NBA CBA is loaded with all kinds of various exceptions and rules depending on the situation.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

You can also read the CBA itself here if you want:

https://nbpa.com/cba/

Here is the section on team options from the CBA with the pertinent points in bold:

Section 1. Team Options.
Except as provided by Article VIII, Section 1, a Player Contract shall
not contain any option in favor of the Team, except an Option (as defined
in Article I, Section 1(ss)) that: (i) is specifically negotiated between a
Veteran or a Rookie (other than a First Round Pick) and a Team; (ii)
authorizes the extension of such Contract for no more than one (1) year
beyond the stated term; (iii) is exercisable only once; and (iv) provides that
the Salary (excluding Incentive Compensation), Likely Bonuses, and
Unlikely Bonuses payable with respect to the Option Year are no less than
one hundred percent (100%) of the Salary (excluding Incentive
Compensation), Likely Bonuses, and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively,
payable with respect to the last year of the stated term of such Contract
and that all other terms and conditions (other than with respect to the
payment schedule for the player’s Base Compensation) in the Option Year
shall be unchanged from those that applied to the last year of the stated
term of such Contract (including, but not limited to, the percentage of
Base Compensation that is protected).

In other words, if a contract contains a team option, it can only be for the final year of the contract.

There is much more flexibility when it comes to guaranteed and non-guaranteed money in contracts, but that is a different subject from basic team options.

You weren't necessarily on the wrong track with your idea, but the Bucks (or some other team that offers him a deal) would have to get creative with guaranteed and non-guaranteed money like Philly did with Embiid.

[Rainwater]

The crappy thing about the Bledsoe deal and the Snell deal this past summer..

Will the Bucks go way over the cap to match an RFA deal for Parker?

Probably not. But they do have deals that will be expiring in 2018 to trade, but it would cost another 1st to unload them likely.

If Jabari plays well and is healthy when he returns he will get maxed. This is the nba, over paying for guys is the norm. I don't remember a player with that kind of talent and potential that doesn't get maxed. Hell, if Wiggins got maxed, I don't know how a healthy Jabari does not.

[Ayt]

The crappy thing about the Bledsoe deal and the Snell deal this past summer..

Will the Bucks go way over the cap to match an RFA deal for Parker?

Probably not. But they do have deals that will be expiring in 2018 to trade, but it would cost another 1st to unload them likely.

If Jabari plays well and is healthy when he returns he will get maxed. This is the nba, over paying for guys is the norm. I don't remember a player with that kind of talent and potential that doesn't get maxed. Hell, if Wiggins got maxed, I don't know how a healthy Jabari does not.

How many players that have had 2 ACL injuries while on their rookie contract have gotten a max extension? Wiggins had basically no injury concerns since he has missed only 1 game in his career so far. His contract was based on production and perceived upside. The risks with Jabari are completely different.

[Rainwater]

The crappy thing about the Bledsoe deal and the Snell deal this past summer..

Will the Bucks go way over the cap to match an RFA deal for Parker?

Probably not. But they do have deals that will be expiring in 2018 to trade, but it would cost another 1st to unload them likely.

If Jabari plays well and is healthy when he returns he will get maxed. This is the nba, over paying for guys is the norm. I don't remember a player with that kind of talent and potential that doesn't get maxed. Hell, if Wiggins got maxed, I don't know how a healthy Jabari does not.

How many players that have had 2 ACL injuries while on their rookie contract have gotten a max extension? Wiggins had basically no injury concerns since he has missed only 1 game in his career so far. His contract was based on production and perceived upside. The risks with Jabari are completely different.

Again, if he plays well when he returns he will get maxed. It honestly depends on how he looks when he returns. Unless he looks absoutely done he will get paid. Grant Hill, Joel Embiid, Michael Redd are guys who signed despite injury issues. Grant Hill was still rehabbing when signed his contract with the magic, lol. This stuff is normal in the NBA especially guys with All Star talent. It seems like the reward is bigger than the risk.

[ibanezjp]

https://youtu.be/qSuu_QYm-nY

Has anyone seen or posted this already? Pretty crazy and seems to make a lot of sense. Doesn’t sound to hopeful for Jabari unless he’s able to change the way he lands and runs.

[M-C-G]

https://youtu.be/qSuu_QYm-nY

Has anyone seen or posted this already? Pretty crazy and seems to make a lot of sense. Doesn’t sound to hopeful for Jabari unless he’s able to change the way he lands and runs.

Interesting breakdown. I'm very hopeful that if this guy can figure all that out, that Suki is all over this.

[raysbookclub]

https://youtu.be/qSuu_QYm-nY

Has anyone seen or posted this already? Pretty crazy and seems to make a lot of sense. Doesn’t sound to hopeful for Jabari unless he’s able to change the way he lands and runs.

That's really interesting. Makes me want to take video of myself running on the court! Had ACL tear with a tibia avulsion fracture a year and a half ago. Thought it was me getting older, now I realize it's how I run on all those chase-down blocks I do.

[Bernman]

I thought that was common sense to run on your tiptoes or balls as opposed to your midfoot or heel. The reduction in force is noticeable and you can change direction easier on your toes.

But I wouldn't say this is where either Jabari's major injuries came from, rather the desire to run through a wall or figure out a way to circumvent it as he goes along. In that way it's high risk. None of those were landing injuries, unlike Rose. Those were sudden change of direction ones where the lead leg was far ahead of the trailing.

Interesting that the 3 biggest examples were Chicago guys. I don't know if that has anything to do with a hyper-competitive play-style or how they're taught or naught.

[M-C-G]

I thought that was common sense to run on your tiptoes or balls as opposed to your midfoot or heel. The reduction in force is noticeable and you can change direction easier on your toes.

But I wouldn't say this is where either Jabari's major injuries came from, rather the desire to run through a wall or figure out a way to circumvent it as he goes along. In that way it's high risk. None of those were landing injuries, unlike Rose. Those were sudden change of direction ones where the lead leg was far ahead of the trailing.

Interesting that the 3 biggest examples were Chicago guys. I don't know if that has anything to do with a hyper-competitive play-style or how they're taught or naught.

I think the landing is just a constant risk if he continues the odd one legged landings which is pretty avoidable if he just keeps putting focus on it. I did see that video from a couple of weeks ago, it looked like he was much more actively trying to soften his landing which is good.

I'm so excited to have him back out there, hopefully his scoring really helps our bench this year and would be good to see some of him and Giannis out there in transition again.