Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[WeekapaugGroove]

This timeline talk implies we are on some kind of schedule.... and if anything we are running late.

Its a ruse...blah, blah, blah... McD blows...blah, blah, blah...

McD stinks...blah, blah, blah...

That is all for now....

Did I do it right, Frank? Boy, talk about beating a dead horse, you are as bad as I am about Len, Warren, and dare I say... "Dragic"...and then I'm blasted for my long diatribes...

...face it, Frank, we are two peas in a pod...we just disagree on some points is all...

Anyway, couldn't resist Frank...but I did +1 you on this, because I agree. I am tired of the #Timeline talk, but now we have nothing, so we have no choice but to yet, again, tank for a year, hope we get Bamba or Ayton, or Bagley and he's good with playing the 5, or whatever...but point is, without a true PG, we can't possibly hope to compete, and there are only like 2 PGs this draft that seem like they might develop into solid starters...the others are highly suspect.

So, I agree, to a point, about what you said about Bender, Chriss, and Jackson, but odds are, at least one will 'grow' into a solid starter and actually, I think they all have their niche, but without a PG, and a non-interim HC, how an we judge their development?

But McD discussed using ALL these pieces as trade chips for a disgruntled 'star', and yet, here we are, with no disgruntled 'star', and why I was so big on Kyrie.

The way I see it, we have Chriss OR Bender, JJ, our 2018 pick OR Mia 2018 pick, Mil 2020 (?) and Mia 2021 Unprotected 1st Rd picks.

I know we all love JJ, but in all honesty, we have Warren and Booker and Chriss OR Bender. Can't we use the others for that disgruntled PG star...be it this year or over the Summer?

That's 5 pieces...a 20 YO, a 21 YO, a potential lottery pick now, in 2020, and 2021. And that's not counting an expiring Monroe, Daniels, Ulis, and Dudley, if a team so desires. McD has TONS of 'trade chips' to use; he has no excuses left. By next season, we BETTER have a GOOD starting PG + Booker + Warren + Bender or Chriss + Ayton/Bamba/Williams/McCoy/Carter. Preferably, we still have JJ as well, but those draft picks need to be gone, gone, gone. And if it takes trading ours, and it's, say, the 5th overall, and we use Miami's, at say 13th, then so be it. GET A PG...at any cost.

No more rebuilding...no more excuses...

Next season, we better be competing; if we aren't, then McD needs to go, IMO. He's collected far too many pieces and is sitting on them too long waiting on the perfect trade; that's never going to happen.

I'm all for McD being removed from the organization. But as I stated the other day I think the whole 'trade for a disgruntled star" strategy is a dangerous basket to put your eggs into. It really hinges on that disgruntled star actually wanting to be here. Take Kyrie for example I do think they sniffed around on him this summer but I also think his agent made it clear to the suns he didn't want to come here and was unlikely to sign an extension. I fault McD for a lot of things but I can't fault him for not trading a **** load of stuff for someone who doesn't want to play here. To me it's more important the guys they draft play well and make this a more attractive destination.

The draft is far from a sure thing but at least you know you will get that pick and if you scout well and take the right guy you have contractual control over that player for many years. Overall I think the draft and develop plan is good but it only works with proper execution. Simply put their picks need to be good players and the jury is still out on the last 3 top 10 guys they have taken. If they all fail to me it's not the strategies fault but the person using that strategy poorly.

[bwgood77]

I keep forgetting that we have Reed. When is he coming back?

We are really going to have a numbers crunch if we don't move Monroe and someone else soon.

Also, we need to get Jahlil if he is bought out. I just have a good feeling about his fit here even with his horrid advanced numbers and our plethora of bigs. Does anybody who knows the CBA a bit better than me know if the max offer rule applies if he is bought out and signs with us? What I mean is are we capped with our re-signing amount the way we would be with a trade.

I wouldn't worry too much about Reed's impact on the roster this year. It was a 4-6 month time table in late August so we may not see him until February. Even then he won't be ready for real minutes for a while.

It was reported Okafor would be going to Boston if he is bought out. I'm not sure how legitimate that is but I could see it. The only C on their roster is Baynes leaving Horford to play a lot of minutes there.

Boston really wouldn't be able to resign him. Horford works perfectly as the C there, given that they like to start Tatum, Morris and Brown. It helps with depth, but with Baynes there I'm not sure. I don't really care if we sign Okafor, but the Celtics are likely over the cap next year if they keep all of their players, especially if they add a draft pick.

[bwgood77]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

[Qwigglez]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

So basically help Hawks stay in bottom 2 by trading for Schroder is what you are saying?

[Frank Lee]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

Thank you sir
May I have another?

[bwgood77]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

I'm not saying my hopes are high. I'm saying that the best strategy as of today is not to tank, but to compete. I also think that with three picks (two of which I think we would use), we have limited the downside associated with failing to get a high pick.

With additional tops falling from the ranks, I can see decent talent shaking loose and us being able to pick someone up on the cheap (for, say, a second rounder or even two). I would like to see us get into a position where we're attractive to free agents this summer.

I guess I'm just not that into the top of this draft, and I'm really sick of caring about how the lottery balls fall. I trust our scouts. Let's try to win.

[Qwigglez]

I agree with Cosmo. I don't feel there are any surefire talent in this draft such as a KAT/AD/Ben Simmons type. With us competing, it puts us in a similar situation to the Wolves of last year where they were able to grab quality free agents such as Teague/Gibson while only winning 31 games. Butler definitely helped with those signings but I feel they would have made those signings anyhow. We also seem to do better finding talent in the mid-teens than top 5 picks. I'm not at all seeing Bagley as a Lamar Odom player or better. Ayton looks legit and that's as far as it goes for me.
Warriors, Rockets, Spurs, and Wolves look to be the top 4 teams. Blazers should be No 5. Nuggets are definitely a playoff team. Hornets lack depth, Thunder lack depth, Jazz lack a go-to guy offensively. We could definitely gain some momentum during the season if we had a quality PG.

[Steve Nashidis]

Hi Suns funs.

I am here to remind you, those bad trades.



We sell one of the best European players, for a croatian poor PF.
Bogdanovic ladies & gents. The missed opportunity to have an MVP, behind booker, for someone who is invisible.

Lol you are pathetic.

Nice argument dude.. Thank you

I will remind you that suns prefer to keep Bender and trade Papagiannis & Bogdanovic rather than keep Papa & Bogda, and trade down from #4 (bender) to Chriss.
Its not the first time we loose players for nothing ( Bledsoe, Thomas, Dragic). No one want to stay in Phoenix anymore because we haven't a good administration.
Anyaway. If someone doesn't want to "see" , why do i have to give you light??

7 years without playoffs....
(thank you mod, for the support)

[bwgood77]

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

I'm not saying my hopes are high. I'm saying that the best strategy as of today is not to tank, but to compete. I also think that with three picks (two of which I think we would use), we have limited the downside associated with failing to get a high pick.

With additional tops falling from the ranks, I can see decent talent shaking loose and us being able to pick someone up on the cheap (for, say, a second rounder or even two). I would like to see us get into a position where we're attractive to free agents this summer.

I guess I'm just not that into the top of this draft, and I'm really sick of caring about how the lottery balls fall. I trust our scouts. Let's try to win.

I don't think we are trying to lose. I think we are trying to win, and I think we should be trying to win. I'd be real surprised if the coaches and team is trying to tank.

I originally was simply mentioning that there will be another bad team if Blake is out.

I'm probably not nearly as much as an expert as you in the draft, but my guess is the best perceived players by scouts get taken higher than the lower perceived ones.

The best point guards might not be taken very high, but if that's the case it might be because they simply don't project to be good pro players. But we will likely be able to take one anyway if we desire because we should at least get the Miami pick, and possibly the Bucks pick.

As a long time die hard fan I really want us to land a franchise talent so the team will provide me entertainment in the years to come. It's not extremely likely we land a franchise talent in the draft, but it's a lot more likely than landing one in a trade for a 2nd rounder or free agency.

I may just have loftier goals though and may end up disappointed that we can build through the draft like most of the great teams that sustain success year in and year out.

[bwgood77]

I agree with Cosmo. I don't feel there are any surefire talent in this draft such as a KAT/AD/Ben Simmons type. With us competing, it puts us in a similar situation to the Wolves of last year where they were able to grab quality free agents such as Teague/Gibson while only winning 31 games. Butler definitely helped with those signings but I feel they would have made those signings anyhow. We also seem to do better finding talent in the mid-teens than top 5 picks. I'm not at all seeing Bagley as a Lamar Odom player or better. Ayton looks legit and that's as far as it goes for me.
Warriors, Rockets, Spurs, and Wolves look to be the top 4 teams. Blazers should be No 5. Nuggets are definitely a playoff team. Hornets lack depth, Thunder lack depth, Jazz lack a go-to guy offensively. We could definitely gain some momentum during the season if we had a quality PG.

Barring significant injuries, I think you have a clear top two of the Warriors and Rockets. A clear third in SA, and then 4-8 will all be close between OKC, MINN, POR, DEN and NOP, likely all between 44-48 wins or so.

The Thunder have struggled a bit to pull off wins but do have the 4th best pt differential in the league and are just have three high usage guys learning to play together like the 2010-11 Heat.

[Saberestar]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I agree completely.

We have played just the first quarter of the season, we have a lot of games ahead of us and a lot of things can happen.

We are not that bad, we need a good PG and we would be a competitive team.

Memphis, Clippers (without Griffin and Beverley), Lakers, Kings, Mavs and Jazz are not better than us.

I would love to fight for the playoffs with this young team.

I do not care about draft position, every year it is the same story.

Last year, all the people were claiming that the draft had three big time prospects in Ball, Fultz and Jackson...and right now we do not even know if they are better than any of the all the other players in the lottery.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[Qwigglez]

The Jazz traded with Denver in 2013 to get the 27th pick to get Rudy Gobert. In 2014, they had the 5th pick and took Dante Exum.

The Bucks drafted Greek Freak at 15 in 2013, and in 2014 they took Jabari Parker with the 2nd pick. They also got Brogdon with the 35th pick last year.

Just saying a high pick isn't necessarily needed. We could find gold anywhere in the draft. The Nuggets have been doing a great job with their later picks such as Gary Harris (picked 18th in 2014), Nurkic (picked 16th in 2014), Jokic (picked 41st in 2014). Maybe we are also a team that just picks better later.

[bwgood77]

The Jazz traded with Denver in 2013 to get the 27th pick to get Rudy Gobert. In 2014, they had the 5th pick and took Dante Exum.

The Bucks drafted Greek Freak at 15 in 2013, and in 2014 they took Jabari Parker with the 2nd pick. They also got Brogdon with the 35th pick last year.

Just saying a high pick isn't necessarily needed. We could find gold anywhere in the draft. The Nuggets have been doing a great job with their later picks such as Gary Harris (picked 18th in 2014), Nurkic (picked 16th in 2014), Jokic (picked 41st in 2014). Maybe we are also a team that just picks better later.

Yeah, there are a couple of non lotto that end up being solid players every year. Whether or not you are the lucky team to pick them is a problem. Our non lotto picks have been Tyler Ennis, Tyler Ulis, Alec Peters, Davon Reed, etc.

I'll be very happy to see us win games and be competitive and strike gold in the second round. I just don't see the former happening. I hope the latter happens regardless of where we fall in the draft. We sure will have lots of chances with late picks to hopefully strike gold.

[jcsunsfan]

Hi Suns funs.

I am here to remind you, those bad trades.



We sell one of the best European players, for a croatian poor PF.
Bogdanovic ladies & gents. The missed opportunity to have an MVP, behind booker, for someone who is invisible.

Lol you are pathetic.

Nice argument dude.. Thank you

I will remind you that suns prefer to keep Bender and trade Papagiannis & Bogdanovic rather than keep Papa & Bogda, and trade down from #4 (bender) to Chriss.
Its not the first time we loose players for nothing ( Bledsoe, Thomas, Dragic). No one want to stay in Phoenix anymore because we haven't a good administration.
Anyaway. If someone doesn't want to "see" , why do i have to give you light??

7 years without playoffs....
(thank you mod, for the support)

IN hindsight, every fan is an expert GM.

No one. Not one. Complained about that trade at the time.

[kennydorglas]

Oh boy, the Papagiannis fan is back. hahahahahaha

[WeekapaugGroove]

The Jazz traded with Denver in 2013 to get the 27th pick to get Rudy Gobert. In 2014, they had the 5th pick and took Dante Exum.

The Bucks drafted Greek Freak at 15 in 2013, and in 2014 they took Jabari Parker with the 2nd pick. They also got Brogdon with the 35th pick last year.

Just saying a high pick isn't necessarily needed. We could find gold anywhere in the draft. The Nuggets have been doing a great job with their later picks such as Gary Harris (picked 18th in 2014), Nurkic (picked 16th in 2014), Jokic (picked 41st in 2014). Maybe we are also a team that just picks better later.

Yeah, there are a couple of non lotto that end up being solid players every year. Whether or not you are the lucky team to pick them is a problem. Our non lotto picks have been Tyler Ennis, Tyler Ulis, Alec Peters, Davon Reed, etc.

I'll be very happy to see us win games and be competitive and strike gold in the second round. I just don't see the former happening. I hope the latter happens regardless of where we fall in the draft. We sure will have lots of chances with late picks to hopefully strike gold.

It's all about execution. McD drafted ulis right before brogdon. Since they were in the same range one would assume they scouted both guys and chose ulis. Thats not luck thats poor execution.

You can find gems and busts throughout the draft. No gm gets all the picks right but the good ones hit more than miss.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[King4Day]

I'm pretty sure we don't touch Papagiannis if we kept that pick. We already were stacked with centers.
Bogdon would have cost us a lot of money and maybe it would have been worth it but it is what it is.