Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[NavLDO]

Schroder might be the sexier high potential option but I think Dinwiddie or McConnell would make the team and our star players better.

Career Averages:

Assist to Turnover Ratio
Dinwiddie 3.4 to 1
McConnell 2.9 to 1
Schroder 2.0 to 1

3 Point %
Dinwiddie 33%
Schroder 33%
McConnell 31%

Steals Per 36
McConnell 1.9
Dinwiddie 1.4
Schroder 1.4

O-Rating
Dinwiddie 111
McConnell 105
Schroder 100

Also Schroder is likely to cost about $10m more.

I'm sure many of us would prefer TJ or SD but those guys are not going anywhere. The team has their control and they are cheap and productive.

My question is what does McConnell and Dinwiddie do for us? Does that make us a playoff team? Does that give us a piece to build around? Do you see them as a leader and franchise changing player?

My answer to all of those is no!

Lowry didn't start consistently until his 5th season at the age of 24 after being drafted 24th.
Teague didn't start consistently until his 3rd season at the age of 23 after being drafted 19th.
Dragic didn't start consistently until his 6th season at the age of 26 after being drafted 45th.
George Hill didn't start consistently until his 6th season at the age of 26 after being drafted 26th.
Bledsoe didn't start consistently until his 4th season at the age of 24 after being drafted 18th.

I'm sure none of these looked as if they were going to be starting-worthy PGs at similar points in their careers at where Dinwiddie and McConnell are now. It's much too early to determine what kind of impact they may have on a team simply based upon draft position and/or play to date this early in their career. Placed in the right situation under the right coach and they may thrive, or at least play solid starter minutes, as these others have.

[lilfishi22]

The problem with DeAndre Jordan is that he needs a good PG to feed him the ball consistently down low for him to be effective offensively.

He takes a huge 87% of his shots 0-3 feet from the rim and converts an amazing 74% of his shots from that distance. However, he is assisted 71% of the time on 2-point shots made. Who do we have that can dish assists to him consistently so DeAndre can be effective offensively? Unless we can trade for a pass first type PG I would pass on Jordan.

I think Booker can fit that role. Not as good as CP3 but I think he's on track to develop a James Harden type skill set and a big weapon in Harden's arsenal is that PnR/P game. I think he's already doing well using screens and becoming a triple threat, he just hasn't had a good finisher to play with. A PG upgrade is definitely on our priority list as well but we can't wait for that *if* DAJ becomes available.

[LukasBMW]

I want a stretch 5, not a one dimensional guy like DeAndre. It would be different if he had a post game and was a legit 22/12 guy, but he's not.

Truthfully (and I'm prepared for the pitchforks) I'd rather sign Jah to a two year deal and keep Tyson around to mentor him.

I'm all down to start accelerating this rebuild by adding legit stars on fat deals, but not borderline guys like Jordan or injured plagued guys like Blake.

[King4Day]

My take is:

1. Getting Jordan means players will at least look at us as a possible destination.
2. If Jordan said he'd be interested in coming to Phoenix, then that HAS to mean we talked to him in some form or fashion (most likely the players did).
3. If we landed him for say Monroe and the Miami 1st (don't say it's not enough because he's technically expiring, we can't get a commitment from him, and we got jack for Bledsoe).
4. Acquiring a player like Jordan should make Booker happy that the FO is making moves to improve the team.

It'd be a pricey move and maybe the end of his next contract won't be pretty considering his age, but it can do more for us off the court than it will on this season and upcoming summer.

I could see us then making a play for George Hill to give the Kings cap space. Maybe Chandler and a couple non guaranteed contracts. I dunno

[Kerrsed]

In before we find out that Jordan is just using our name to get a better offer from the Clippers like Griffing reportedly did.

[lilfishi22]

I want a stretch 5, not a one dimensional guy like DeAndre. It would be different if he had a post game and was a legit 22/12 guy, but he's not.

Truthfully (and I'm prepared for the pitchforks) I'd rather sign Jah to a two year deal and keep Tyson around to mentor him.

I'm all down to start accelerating this rebuild by adding legit stars on fat deals, but not borderline guys like Jordan or injured plagued guys like Blake.

Multidimensional bigs are hard to find, difficult to obtain and are rarely available. DAJ might be one dimensional (bit of an exaggeration) but he's near elite on that end of the court. And for $22m, $24m, it's not a huge price to pay. We don't necessarily need to resign him to $35m a year either.

[bwgood77]

We also have way too many picks over the next few years than we can realistically use. As I said, I don't know what kind of package it'll take to get DAJ but if we could use some of those 1st's (which we probably only acquired as a future trade asset) to trade for him, I'm OK with that. Kerrsed is probably asking for too much considering what we're willing to give up.

I don't think you can have too many picks. Not when you need talent. Not when you need the most chances possible at finding that franchise cornerstone. The only way I would part with first rounders is if I knew the player we had control of the player (like we did with Knight), so someone on a rookie contract, OR someone due for an extension who basically had agreed to re-sign. I wouldn't unload picks for a guy that could opt out of his contract next summer like Jordan can.

The picks themselves don't appear anywhere until a player is drafted for this team, before then they are just "rights". Once they become players, they then become a line item in our salary cap, a roster spot, minutes in a game and as off-court development commitment. When we have all these picks and already have a bunch of young guys who needs minutes, development time and familiarity playing with your top players, I just don't think they (esp those at the mid-late lottery) are assets which we need to cling onto like a needy GF. Not saying we should be giving them away willy-nilly but when a player of DAJ's caliber becomes available, we should be willing to use them as trade chips.

In the end, you can't have a roster full of mid-lotto, 1st round guys and hope one of them become something. You need a better plan that that.

A team full of mid lotto first round guys should yield you something pretty good unless you just can't make picks. DeAndre Jordan was a second round pick...#35.

GS got Curry and Thompson mid lottery and Green in the 2nd round.

Philly and Boston's plans were to stockpile picks, draft some players in the lottery and then when you have your core, sign a FA or make a trade.

Philly drafted Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Holmes, Korkmaz, Luwawu and once they had that core, they traded a couple of picks for Fultz and signed Redick.

Boston drafted Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Olynyk, Brown, then signed Horford and traded of IT, and then they drafted Taytum, signed Hayward and traded for Irving.

A plan to build through the draft, stockpile picks, and cash in when the time is right isn't a bad plan if it's executed correctly. To continue to go away from your plan to try and make a splash and compete now when our team is full of 20 years olds is a recipe for disaster. How many years do we have to see it to believe it?

This conbuilding or whatever people call it doesn't work well.

Anyway, like I said, our glaring holes are PG and PF. DeAndre Jordan doesn't really solve our biggest current problems. He gives us a slight upgrade. He's a great rebounder but we already have rebounders. He is a better shot blocker than Len and finishes around the rim about as good as Tyson. And he can't fit free throws and makes $24 million.

[nevetsov]

I'd offer Chriss, James, MIL 1st, lesser of PHX/ MIA 1st, Monroe's expiring
For
Jordan and Lou Williams

Williams, Ulis
Booker, Daniels
Warren, Jackson
Bender, Dudley
Jordan, Chandler

Next year we add Knight, Williams and a mid first, maybe target a replacement for Dudley.

Clipps get a young PF prospect who gets minutes while Griffin is out, 2 2018 firsts to add talent, an expiring they can flip for other pieces. Plus, if they're locking in the rebuild they can flip Blake for a nice return, and their own pick should then be pretty good as well.

[AtheJ415]

Why on earth sign Jordan to a super max when we could probably get Capela, who is a younger, mini version of Deandre with more promising shooting touch, and is capped at a rookie max, which Houston very likely cannot match if it wants to keep Chris Paul.

[AtheJ415]

I'd offer Chriss, James, MIL 1st, lesser of PHX/ MIA 1st, Monroe's expiring
For
Jordan and Lou Williams

Williams, Ulis
Booker, Daniels
Warren, Jackson
Bender, Dudley
Jordan, Chandler

Next year we add Knight, Williams and a mid first, maybe target a replacement for Dudley.

Clipps get a young PF prospect who gets minutes while Griffin is out, 2 2018 firsts to add talent, an expiring they can flip for other pieces. Plus, if they're locking in the rebuild they can flip Blake for a nice return, and their own pick should then be pretty good as well.

This is such a godforsakingly awful trade.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why couldn't we just sign Jordan as a free agent in the offseason? Are we paying for an audition?

I'm starting to doubt my willingness to give up real assets. Seems like we might be buying high. What if we want to spend that FA money elsewhere?

... I'm back to square one here. Pass on Jordan.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I like Capela just worried he has the Harden effect and his stats won't be better than Len here.

[Qwigglez]

The Rockets will definitely match any offer for Capela. I highly doubt they care about going into the luxury tax with Harden/CP3. They got the best role players around them with Gordon/Anderson/Ariza/Tucker and the potential of Capela.

Onto DJ. Monroe/Len/Jones Jr for DJ/Lou. I'll give them the Bucks pick and our 2nd rounder. Jordan is quite a bit older, but he's been fairly healthy the last 5 seasons or so. I'm imagining a pretty lethal Booker/Jordan PnR.
If we could just get Schroder for Dudley and the Miami 1st, plus maybe another future 1st then we are looking like a legit squad.

Schroder/Booker/Warren/Bender/Jordan
Lou/Daniels/Jackson/Chriss/Chandler

Biggest concern is we have no more money, so we are hoping to god that Bender/Chriss pans out at PF.

[AtheJ415]

Why couldn't we just sign Jordan as a free agent in the offseason? Are we paying for an audition?

I'm starting to doubt my willingness to give up real assets. Seems like we might be buying high. What if we want to spend that FA money elsewhere?

... I'm back to square one here. Pass on Jordan.

This. Why are we paying real assets for guys we could simply sign this offseason or next? That makes no sense. We don't need any of these guys' bird rights since we have cap space to begin with and no impending giant deals needed for people already on our team.

[AtheJ415]

The Rockets will definitely match any offer for Capela. I highly doubt they care about going into the luxury tax with Harden/CP3. They got the best role players around them with Gordon/Anderson/Ariza/Tucker and the potential of Capela.

Onto DJ. Monroe/Len/Jones Jr for DJ/Lou. I'll give them the Bucks pick and our 2nd rounder. Jordan is quite a bit older, but he's been fairly healthy the last 5 seasons or so. I'm imagining a pretty lethal Booker/Jordan PnR.
If we could just get Schroder for Dudley and the Miami 1st, plus maybe another future 1st then we are looking like a legit squad.

Schroder/Booker/Warren/Bender/Jordan
Lou/Daniels/Jackson/Chriss/Chandler

Biggest concern is we have no more money, so we are hoping to god that Bender/Chriss pans out at PF.

You are underestimating the Rockets scenario here. It's not just the luxury tax. The Rockets have $147.6 million in cap and cap holds next offseason before Capela's deal, and that's with Capela at a small cap hold of $5.8 million. They were hard capped this offseason. They are already in the luxury tax, so this idea that so long as you are willing to pay the cap you can is incorrect--they are having to work around repeater penalties and hard caps. They will need to make some tough decisions. Chris Paul's cap hold is $39 million. He may take a discount to that, but given what Conley just got he probably stays upwards of $33 million a year. Then you have Ariza, who I guess they can waive to make room, which would free up just enough for Clint, but Ariza is super important to that team too. Mbah a Moute is playing great and also an FA, who they could sign to replace Ariza but may end up costing as much and currently makes nothing, so all of that increase makes their issue worse.

They once let Parsons walk on a mini-max, and Capela is really in that same spot--he's a 3rd option but elite role player for them who is going to probably get a mini-max, and who while Houston values, probably would rather have the flexibility to get another superstar instead.

Really I think the only absolutely clear, 100% scenario that Houston re-signs him is if Paul leaves for another team. In that scenario his $40 mil cap hold walks and you have plenty of space.

[lilfishi22]

Why on earth sign Jordan to a super max when we could probably get Capela, who is a younger, mini version of Deandre with more promising shooting touch, and is capped at a rookie max, which Houston very likely cannot match if it wants to keep Chris Paul.

Haven't looked at Houston's salary cap situation but I'd imagine they'd move heaven and earth if it meant they can keep Capela even at max. He's been instrumental in their dominance this season.

[AtheJ415]

Also, Capela's mini max is about $25 million, so keep that in mind. That means you are looking at a team salary of $160+ million even if Chris Paul gave you a $10 mil/year discount.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Why couldn't we just sign Jordan as a free agent in the offseason? Are we paying for an audition?

I'm starting to doubt my willingness to give up real assets. Seems like we might be buying high. What if we want to spend that FA money elsewhere?

... I'm back to square one here. Pass on Jordan.

This. Why are we paying real assets for guys we could simply sign this offseason or next? That makes no sense. We don't need any of these guys' bird rights since we have cap space to begin with and no impending giant deals needed for people already on our team.

Yeah I whole heartily agree. Hell giving Jordan a big bag of cash is questionable in general but to give up assetts this year along with it is wild.

Wait until this summer and after the draft to figure out the center spot.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

Also, Capela's mini max is about $25 million, so keep that in mind. That means you are looking at a team salary of $160+ million even if Chris Paul gave you a $10 mil/year discount.

I think they would eat that if they are competitive in this playoffs. I think the new owner of the Rockets (Fertitta) would love to see championship success within 3 years of buying the team and if they are close this season, they'll go above and beyond to get to the finish line.

[Qwigglez]

I found it guys! The almost-perfect three team trade!

Suns get-
Boogie Cousins
Omer Asik

Clippers get-
Greg Monroe
Marquese Chriss
Bucks 1st
Suns 2nd

Pelicans get-
Deandre Jordan
Lou Williams

Pelicans do this because they get out of Omer Asik's 3 year deal, plus DJ looks best with a quality PG (Jrue), and another quality big (AD). Pelicans desperately need help on the wing and they get Lou Williams to provide that spark they been looking for. The Pels are far more balanced after this deal.

Clippers do this because they may end up losing DJ for nothing anyhow, so they get a young player in Chriss and a mid 1st round pick, plus a decent 2nd rounder. They also go into tank mode since Gall/Bev/Milo/Griffin are all hurt.

Suns do this to obtain the bird rights of Boogie, though it cost them some assets plus the contract of Asik. We still make the deal I mentioned earlier to get Schroder. We don't have that spark plug off the bench this year, but next year Brandon Knight may be able to fill that void. We are also dangerously thin at PF, but we'd still have our draft pick for 2018, plus Alan Williams off the bench next year.