Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[m1chal]

With DMC playing great ball it's hard to see the Pels trade him for this return. I'd do it for the Suns though.

[Qwigglez]

With DMC playing great ball it's hard to see the Pels trade him for this return. I'd do it for the Suns though.

True enough. The only reason I could see them doing something like this is if they feel they may lose him in free agency. They don't have any leverage and the only thing they can get from him is a promise to stay. At least with the deal I mentioned they get rid of a bad contract in Asik, and they could potentially keep both DJ and Lou. But you are right, it would be hard to see the Pelicans make such a deal.

[sunsbum]

I can't believe I'm saying this but is there that much of a gap that we should be overpaying an ageing DJ when we have Len? I mean Alex is finally turning into exactly what some of us thought he should have been which is a rebounding/defender after they stopped trying to force him to play outside of the paint. Personally I'd keep Alex over paying DJ 25 - 30 a year.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Centers are weird they all average roughly the same production but have vastly different impacts.

You have a look at guys like Chandler, Noah, Hibbert, Gasol, Jordan in past years as All-Star Centers and they have run of the mill points / rebounds per minute probably less than Len or Williams.

[Kerrsed]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

[Kerrsed]

Centers are weird they all average roughly the same production but have vastly different impacts.

You have a look at guys like Chandler, Noah, Hibbert, Gasol, Jordan in past years as All-Star Centers and they have run of the mill points / rebounds per minute probably less than Len or Williams.

Chandler/Noah/Hibbert/Jordan were all well known for their defensive impact. They knew their roles (Defend the paint/rim and grab rebounds) and didnt try to stray from it. Gasol on the other hand was a decent defender, but also one of the best passing big men in the game (Due to his offense, high basketball IQ, and court vision). Gasol was a major threat on offense and they would get him the ball deep in the paint, forcing teams to double team him, and he would kick it out to the open man.

[NavLDO]

Hi Suns funs.

I am here to remind you, those bad trades.


We sell one of the best European players, for a croatian poor PF.
Bogdanovic ladies & gents. The missed opportunity to have an MVP, behind booker, for someone who is invisible.

http://bkref.com/tiny/sKVrX

"I'll take 'Shooting Guards with ORtgs over 100' for 800, Alex."

"Which SG does NOT have an ORtg over 100, Bogdan Bogdanovich or Troy Daniels?"

"Bogdan Bogdanovich"

""Good job. Troy Daniels has an ORtg of 114, while Bogdan's is 99."

[Hesh]

So................... when does fizdale start with us?

[NavLDO]

Nope on Blake Griffin now. Should have at least talked with us over the summer. Now I hope he stays forever injured and does more crappy but entertaining stand up comedy.

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but without a PG (basically, barring a sudden influx of talent to Ulis/James), we aren't going anywhere.

I'm all for 'going for the win', but McD needs to act on 14 Dec...like, immediately and get us a PG somehow. If that were to happen...AND we rid ourselves of Chandler in the process while keeping Monroe (or be willing to start Len), then I think we have a strong chance to compete for that 7 or 8 seed, so long as Warren and Booker stay healthy.

Basically, we need to shore up our 1 and 5 positions. And again, Len played 30 minutes last night (and no, I don't know how he looked), but he posted a nice 13/18 game with no PFs (no Blks, either, though), but point is, when Len gets 25+ minutes, good things typically happen. However, I understand that often he doesn't GET 25 minutes because he's playing like a$$ and he's pulled before he can get his 25 minutes, but I would still start him over Chandler. Get him a decent PG, and yes, his game will improve also.

[NavLDO]

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

But you also have to admit/realize, we lost our first game by 50, which highly skews that number, but yes, the fact that we've played a rather easy schedule does portend difficult times ahead.

[NavLDO]

As a long time die hard fan I really want us to land a franchise talent so the team will provide me entertainment in the years to come. It's not extremely likely we land a franchise talent in the draft, but it's a lot more likely than landing one in a trade for a 2nd rounder or free agency.

I may just have loftier goals though and may end up disappointed that we can build through the draft like most of the great teams that sustain success year in and year out.

Wouldn't you consider Booker being well on his way to being a Franchise talent?

And what about Warren?

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf/sort/VORP

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/twoPointFieldGoalPct/qualified/false/position/small-forwards

That's some pretty elite company he is in. I know there are other metrics/stats where he doesn't measure up so favorably, but my goodness, all this talk about Warren be in a 'great 6th man' is ridiculous; he's not giving up that SF slot to JJ anytime soon. He's averaging 19/6 over 31mpg as a SF. That's crazy. I couldn't care less about his 3PT%; I wish he'd stop all together, take a step in, then shoot. He's likely to make it, since he's 5th in 2PT% for SFs with over 100 shots made (3rd with over 125).

[Fo-Real]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

They do say it takes longer for bigs to develope. Is this a case of that or is money the only deciding factor? I like what Alex has brought lately.

[King4Day]

For those suggesting we should wait to sign Jordan this summer.

1. It goes without saying that we wouldn't be the only team making a push for him and like all other big name FA's, why would anyone feel confident enough that he'll sign here?
2. Trading for him gives him a good feel for if he fits. Better chance at re-signing him.
3. The deal might help us trade a long contract like Dudley or Chandler. Otherwise, we aren't bringing in Jordan without moving another high priced player (see Robert Sarver)

[Hesh]

Apparently Gambo today said that Len prefers to be somewhere else next year. Can anyone confirm he said this and elaborate as to whether Gambo is just speculating or actually hearing whispers from Len's camp.

[AtheJ415]

For those suggesting we should wait to sign Jordan this summer.

1. It goes without saying that we wouldn't be the only team making a push for him and like all other big name FA's, why would anyone feel confident enough that he'll sign here?
2. Trading for him gives him a good feel for if he fits. Better chance at re-signing him.
3. The deal might help us trade a long contract like Dudley or Chandler. Otherwise, we aren't bringing in Jordan without moving another high priced player (see Robert Sarver)

So you want to trade a bunch of youth for Deandre in an effort to let him get a better feel for the team just for a slightly better chance at signing him? That is still pretty awful.

Why on earth is everybody here trying to short circuit this rebuild when we are really close to getting the type of talent to pair with Booker to be a long-term really good team?

People on here are talking about how the goal should be to sneak into the playoffs as the 8th seed. That is insanity imo. Even if it was close to feasible, that should NOT be the goal. That is the definition of treadmilling, and we'd be doing it in a very deep draft at the top relative to others, thus losing out on a potential top 5 pick that could change the outlook of this franchise for 10 years, all for the honor of getting blown out by GSW as the 8 seed. Just fantastic logic.

[kennydorglas]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

Seems like a contract year mirage. He has worst touch than Noah and I dont why people even bother to contest him at the rim.
Just defend tall and he'll shoot under 50% every game.

Could be a good project for Pop tho.

[Fo-Real]

Is it possible that having Moose to play against in practice and actually learning post moves from an actual big man in practice (Chandler and Williams dont have post games, nor do any of the previous players he was behind since being drafted by us), has helped Alex lately?

[bigfoot]

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

But you also have to admit/realize, we lost our first game by 50, which highly skews that number, but yes, the fact that we've played a rather easy schedule does portend difficult times ahead.

Yes we are -8.2 in point differential which is 3rd worst in the league. Even without the first three games we would be at -4.7 which bumps us to 5th worst in the league. We have been thumped pretty good by playoff caliber teams ... Houston (-26), Spurs (-17), Pelicans (-24), Wolves (-11) and played a lot of games (8 of 22) against cellar dwellers and most against teams at or below .500. (14 of 22).

[King4Day]

For those suggesting we should wait to sign Jordan this summer.

1. It goes without saying that we wouldn't be the only team making a push for him and like all other big name FA's, why would anyone feel confident enough that he'll sign here?
2. Trading for him gives him a good feel for if he fits. Better chance at re-signing him.
3. The deal might help us trade a long contract like Dudley or Chandler. Otherwise, we aren't bringing in Jordan without moving another high priced player (see Robert Sarver)

So you want to trade a bunch of youth for Deandre in an effort to let him get a better feel for the team just for a slightly better chance at signing him? That is still pretty awful.

Why on earth is everybody here trying to short circuit this rebuild when we are really close to getting the type of talent to pair with Booker to be a long-term really good team?

People on here are talking about how the goal should be to sneak into the playoffs as the 8th seed. That is insanity imo. Even if it was close to feasible, that should NOT be the goal. That is the definition of treadmilling, and we'd be doing it in a very deep draft at the top relative to others, thus losing out on a potential top 5 pick that could change the outlook of this franchise for 10 years, all for the honor of getting blown out by GSW as the 8 seed. Just fantastic logic.

I never suggested trading young talent. Just the Miami pick along with either Monroe or Chandler (if they wanted him for some reason). I've been on board the tanking bandwagon for years.

Keep in mind, this Suns team isn't like Philly. They landed 2 all-stars and possible superstars. They've nailed more of their picks than we have.
We have Booker and Warren but as of now, neither appear to be future superstars. Booker has the best chance but that's to be determined.

Outside of Booker, Warren and the original Bledsoe trade, McD has been a poor GM. For reasons none of us know, players leave (or demand to leave) unhappy and that's recognized around the league.

The draft is a crapshoot and at this time, there's no way we're finishing with a worse record than Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Sacramento, and Brooklyn. Chances are, we'll be finishing with the 6-9 spot and we know the NBA gods won't gift us into the top 3. If we landed Jordan, there's no chance that changes anything more than a couple of slots.

I'm not looking to add a player who will put us on the treadmill. I'm looking to get one step ahead so when we get our last (hopefully) lottery pick this summer, we have already begun to put the pieces in place to trend upward.

If we keep losing, it means there is no development. There was hope at the end of last season. We've gone backwards this year. If I'm Booker and I don't see progress, I seriously consider taking the QO as a restricted free agent and bolting if things don't get better.

[WeekapaugGroove]

For those suggesting we should wait to sign Jordan this summer.

1. It goes without saying that we wouldn't be the only team making a push for him and like all other big name FA's, why would anyone feel confident enough that he'll sign here?
2. Trading for him gives him a good feel for if he fits. Better chance at re-signing him.
3. The deal might help us trade a long contract like Dudley or Chandler. Otherwise, we aren't bringing in Jordan without moving another high priced player (see Robert Sarver)

First off I have a hard time believing that the Clips would take back a contract like Chandler or Dudley in this deal. And if they did it would only raise up the price tag of draft picks the suns would need to send out.

On your second point about the feel for this team that could absolutely backfire since the Suns don't have a good PG and he's the type that benefits from playing with a good PG. This team is already so far under .500 even with Jordan I have a hard time seeing them make a real playoff push.

The one real advantage trading for him would give the suns is they could offer him a 5th year and a bigger max contract.... but oh my that would be a lot of money to tie up in Jordan.

Plus this would kind of paint them in a corner with the draft. If you make this deal you can't really pick a C. What if you luck out and land top 3 and Anyton or Bamba are the right pick or hell even if they are mid lotto and feel Williams or Carter are the best available players. Do they pass on those guys with only a chance that Jordan resigns? Do they take the C and bury him behind a maxed out 5 years of Jordan?