The Dwightmare has begun in Atlanta

[DarthTater]

Spurs acquired Robinson and Duncan through tanking/high lottery picks. The rest is history.

Opinions vary, but I don't personally think they tanked to get Duncan. Robinson got hurt, and San Antonio got really lucky.

[kg01]

Spurs acquired Robinson and Duncan through tanking/high lottery picks. The rest is history.

Opinions vary, but I don't personally think they tanked to get Duncan. Robinson got hurt, and San Antonio got really lucky.

I don't think it's an opinion. Spurs clearly tanked that year after Robinson got hurt. They kept other players out even after they were healthy.

They did what LAC should probably do this year even though Flake Griffin could probably come back.

[diesel50]

Man I certainly get that Dwight has his limitations, but there are still just a few things about him and his situation in Atlanta that bug me. Seems like Atlanta fans to a great extent wanted him to be more than he was. I never shared those notions. I saw that he was brought in essentially as an attempt to cancel out one of the main weaknesses we had when we got swept in the ECF. We now had somebody that wasn't going to get punked by Tristan Thomson, and at the same time getting Al some help in the front court. Al chose to leave, which caused repercussions, so be it. Never held that against Dwight. Never bought into the rumors that he was a bad teammate, even remember hearing specifically that the team members voted him best teammate or stte and I think Bembry saying he spent a ton of time working with him and giving him guidance as a rookie. Rarely saw the poutiness / drama from him on the floor that I'd heard about and expected. Did witness him regularly getting abused down low and not get any calls or actually get blamed for the contact he did not initiate.
Also thought it was a terrible deal and honestly pretty disrespectful in what Schlenk did to him. First, it was just a bad trade. That we had to give up a great draft position and take on an extra year of a bad contract in plumlee still just baffles me. Think we could have netted a better return trading him this year or this offseason, and had a better prospect from this past draft. All the while avoiding the albatross contract of Plumlee that is worse from a return-on-value perspective and is longer to boot. Maybe we'll net some great return for Belli during a trade this year, but i doubt it will be that good and ... Well, Plumlee. Ick.
also, Dwight was a hometown guy that was a big name that actually wanted to play here, which gives him a fair amount of leeway in my book. To only give him a chance to play one year of his three-year deal in his hometown where he cried in his intro presser etc is a straight D move. Makes the organization look bad in my eyes, especially since they made a blatantly terrible trade, which also made it seem like Dwight was a piece of garbage, which he isn't. I never really thought he was going to stretch the floor, or hit a huge % of his FTs, or be the key to winning us wiinning a championship (although him and Al together would have been a pretty solid pairing that I iwish I could have seen, but Alice bailed so he is dead to me....). In all honesty Dwight met or exceeded every expectation I had for him here, and I'm sad he left how he left. I certainly realize he has his limitations, but he has skills that you can't deny either; he just needs to be utilized correctly, but trying to find that formula can be hard, I admit. Anyway, I haven't kept up with him since he left but I wish him well. I wish things had turned out differently for him and the Hawks both.
Sorry for the rant.

Can't help but agree. It was a dumb move for our franchise.

[jayu70]

Spurs acquired Robinson and Duncan through tanking/high lottery picks. The rest is history.

Opinions vary, but I don't personally think they tanked to get Duncan. Robinson got hurt, and San Antonio got really lucky.

I don't think it's an opinion. Spurs clearly tanked that year after Robinson got hurt. They kept other players out even after they were healthy.

They did what LAC should probably do this year even though Flake Griffin could probably come back.

You are right they didn't tank to get Robinson, they held out Robinson and Elliot longer than needed to get a high pick.
What they also didn't do was sell of their vets to further tank.

[tbhawksfan1]

The biggest and most legit problem with DH was fit. Not only did he not fit in Budball, but he derailed the team scheme on O and D. Couldn't bury him on the bench as per Plumlee and he wasn't about to build trade value. The signing of DH was the mistake. Trading him was a necessity for a team badly in need of a rebuild

[DarthTater]

The biggest and most legit problem with DH was fit. Not only did he not fit in Budball, but he derailed the team scheme on O and D. Couldn't bury him on the bench as per Plumlee and he wasn't about to build trade value. The signing of DH was the mistake. Trading him was a necessity for a team badly in need of a rebuild

With all due respect, Schroeder doesn't fit either. He is an iso combo guard in a motion offense scheme.

[tbhawksfan1]

Schro is 24 and producing good numbers. I hope for better from him, but bringing a Schro to a DH fight aint right

[DarthTater]

Schro is 24 and producing good numbers. I hope for better from him, but bringing a Schro to a DH fight aint right

I'm not bringing him to a DH fight. I read yesterday (unfortunately, I can't remember where I was when I read it) about Schroeder's drive to be a team's centerpiece. The inference in the article was that he undermined Bud's team ball philosophy, and wasn't going to let anyone else get the glory, so to speak.

He's talented, but I don't see him as a centerpiece on a winning team. He, like Josh Smith, sees himself as the only one who can make the Hawks win.

[tbhawksfan1]

Schro is 24 and producing good numbers. I hope for better from him, but bringing a Schro to a DH fight aint right

I'm not bringing him to a DH fight. I read yesterday (unfortunately, I can't remember where I was when I read it) about Schroeder's drive to be a team's centerpiece. The inference in the article was that he undermined Bud's team ball philosophy, and wasn't going to let anyone else get the glory, so to speak.

He's talented, but I don't see him as a centerpiece on a winning team. He, like Josh Smith, sees himself as the only one who can make the Hawks win.

Seems like you've got Schro pegged and you cited an article..... so I'll just say that if what you say is true then I'm looking for a top 10 for him. If not; I see him as a core player.

[DarthTater]

Schro is 24 and producing good numbers. I hope for better from him, but bringing a Schro to a DH fight aint right

I'm not bringing him to a DH fight. I read yesterday (unfortunately, I can't remember where I was when I read it) about Schroeder's drive to be a team's centerpiece. The inference in the article was that he undermined Bud's team ball philosophy, and wasn't going to let anyone else get the glory, so to speak.

He's talented, but I don't see him as a centerpiece on a winning team. He, like Josh Smith, sees himself as the only one who can make the Hawks win.

Seems like you've got Schro pegged and you cited an article..... so I'll just say that if what you say is true then I'm looking for a top 10 for him. If not; I see him as a core player.

https://basketball.realgm.com/article/247850/Dennis-Schroder-Isnt-Interested-In-Being-A-Cog



The 2015 Atlanta Hawks were a darling of a team. It’s hard to think of a better way to describe them. They won 60 games without a superstar. No one in their starting lineup scored more than 16.7 points per game. No one scored less than 12.1. They all played over 30 minutes per game…

…They all played defense. They all moved the ball and were threats from behind the arc. They all had jobs. They all did those jobs. They all seemed like pretty nice guys. No one seemed to think it was “his” team.

Except maybe one guy did think it was his team, and he was coming off the bench.

Dennis Schroder was in his second season in 2015. He played 19.7 minutes per game and averaged 10 points and 4.1 assists. His per-36 averages were as impressive as any of the starters.

I have no idea whether or not Dennis Schroder is a good guy. He doesn’t seem like a particularly nice one when he’s on the court.

He has a confrontational history with John Wall that started on the court, was taken to Instagram, and ultimately put to bed with Wall dunking on Schroder and glaring directly into his soul.

Later, Schroder would discuss the trash talk with K.L. Chouinard, claiming, “Coach don’t want me to talk like that. He wants me to be San Antonio…Kawhi Leonard, so it’s kind of tough, you know?”

Mike Budenholzer is a Popovich disciple and the architect of that delicately symmetrical 2015 Hawks team. He has a reputation as a coach who resists the “star” dynamic. He told RealGM before their season opener in Dallas this season that he “doesn’t tend to be a big talker.” There’s a certain philosophy, and at some point his players should just be indoctrinated into it.

But that 2015 team—the one that was no single player’s team—well, it’s Schroder’s team now and Budenholzer is going to have to make that work for him.

All the ingredients were there for Schroder to embrace the Spurs-ian way; to be a patient cog that is rewarded with the bounty of success. He has been groomed by a coach who lived that system, won championships with it, and branched off his own career because of it. As a 20-year-old, Schroder experienced first-hand the heights that system took the Hawks to and the excitement it brought the fans.

But Schroder is who he is. Budenholzer might want him to “be San Antonio,” but he didn’t draft Tony Parker or Kawhi Leonard. He drafted a guy who’s dead set on showing everyone just how good he is. Schroder doesn’t see the court as something to be shared. He sees the court as his. Leave it to the nine other players to play their part.

The roster likely isn’t good enough for the Hawks to reach the playoffs, but it still might serve as a decent litmus test for Schroder’s ceiling as a franchise piece. Very little can happen on offense for the Hawks that is not directly created by Schroder. Almost every other player is an inconsistent producer. But floor spreaders like Marco Belinelli, Mike, Muscala, and Ersan Ilyasova will give Schroder room to isolate and drive. Kent Bazemore and Dewayne Dedmon are at least steady contributors on both ends.

But rookie John Collins will be Schroder’s primary toy to play with all season. A 20-year old freakishly athletic 6’10 power forward who can play center and handle the ball. He’s raw, but even through just three games he seems poised to pair with a guy like Schroder. If Schroder is getting past his defender and hitting shots, then it raises Collins’ game. All of a sudden he’s putting back missed layups, rolling to the basket, and handling the ball in transition. If Schroder wants to prove you can build a young team around him, Collins will need to be his best ally.

While the 2015 Hawks’ 2015 starting lineup is now dispersed around the league, adding leadership to their respective teams, Schroder is barking out orders and telling his teammates to clear out. He didn’t steal Jeff Teague’s starting job so that he could mimic Teague’s playing style. In the Hawks’ season opener he drove at will on the Mavericks, going to his right every time before finishing with 28 points and seven assists.

Schroder is as fast in the halfcourt as any player in the NBA. He can finish at the basket and pull up for a jumper. His ridiculous length and aggression could theoretically combine to form an excellent perimeter defender. The NBA has no shortage of great point guards, but the Hawks have one who Steph Curry would not enjoy dealing with for seven games.

There isn’t a player in the NBA right now with a greater combination of a desire to run a team and the green light to do it. Schroder will be making $15 million this season and the next three after that. There’s a new era in Atlanta.

“His leadership is important to us, and his voice is important to us, and his understanding of everything we do is important to us,” Budenholzer told RealGM. “He’s got to be able to be a second voice for us that can help carry that message and whatever it is we’re doing in the locker room.”

This isn’t San Antonio. Schroder’s might not be the second voice in Atlanta. It might be the first.

[Robo_Claw]

I'm not bringing him to a DH fight. I read yesterday (unfortunately, I can't remember where I was when I read it) about Schroeder's drive to be a team's centerpiece. The inference in the article was that he undermined Bud's team ball philosophy, and wasn't going to let anyone else get the glory, so to speak.

He's talented, but I don't see him as a centerpiece on a winning team. He, like Josh Smith, sees himself as the only one who can make the Hawks win.

Seems like you've got Schro pegged and you cited an article..... so I'll just say that if what you say is true then I'm looking for a top 10 for him. If not; I see him as a core player.

https://basketball.realgm.com/article/247850/Dennis-Schroder-Isnt-Interested-In-Being-A-Cog



The 2015 Atlanta Hawks were a darling of a team. It’s hard to think of a better way to describe them. They won 60 games without a superstar. No one in their starting lineup scored more than 16.7 points per game. No one scored less than 12.1. They all played over 30 minutes per game…

…They all played defense. They all moved the ball and were threats from behind the arc. They all had jobs. They all did those jobs. They all seemed like pretty nice guys. No one seemed to think it was “his” team.

Except maybe one guy did think it was his team, and he was coming off the bench.

Dennis Schroder was in his second season in 2015. He played 19.7 minutes per game and averaged 10 points and 4.1 assists. His per-36 averages were as impressive as any of the starters.

I have no idea whether or not Dennis Schroder is a good guy. He doesn’t seem like a particularly nice one when he’s on the court.

He has a confrontational history with John Wall that started on the court, was taken to Instagram, and ultimately put to bed with Wall dunking on Schroder and glaring directly into his soul.

Later, Schroder would discuss the trash talk with K.L. Chouinard, claiming, “Coach don’t want me to talk like that. He wants me to be San Antonio…Kawhi Leonard, so it’s kind of tough, you know?”

Mike Budenholzer is a Popovich disciple and the architect of that delicately symmetrical 2015 Hawks team. He has a reputation as a coach who resists the “star” dynamic. He told RealGM before their season opener in Dallas this season that he “doesn’t tend to be a big talker.” There’s a certain philosophy, and at some point his players should just be indoctrinated into it.

But that 2015 team—the one that was no single player’s team—well, it’s Schroder’s team now and Budenholzer is going to have to make that work for him.

All the ingredients were there for Schroder to embrace the Spurs-ian way; to be a patient cog that is rewarded with the bounty of success. He has been groomed by a coach who lived that system, won championships with it, and branched off his own career because of it. As a 20-year-old, Schroder experienced first-hand the heights that system took the Hawks to and the excitement it brought the fans.

But Schroder is who he is. Budenholzer might want him to “be San Antonio,” but he didn’t draft Tony Parker or Kawhi Leonard. He drafted a guy who’s dead set on showing everyone just how good he is. Schroder doesn’t see the court as something to be shared. He sees the court as his. Leave it to the nine other players to play their part.

The roster likely isn’t good enough for the Hawks to reach the playoffs, but it still might serve as a decent litmus test for Schroder’s ceiling as a franchise piece. Very little can happen on offense for the Hawks that is not directly created by Schroder. Almost every other player is an inconsistent producer. But floor spreaders like Marco Belinelli, Mike, Muscala, and Ersan Ilyasova will give Schroder room to isolate and drive. Kent Bazemore and Dewayne Dedmon are at least steady contributors on both ends.

But rookie John Collins will be Schroder’s primary toy to play with all season. A 20-year old freakishly athletic 6’10 power forward who can play center and handle the ball. He’s raw, but even through just three games he seems poised to pair with a guy like Schroder. If Schroder is getting past his defender and hitting shots, then it raises Collins’ game. All of a sudden he’s putting back missed layups, rolling to the basket, and handling the ball in transition. If Schroder wants to prove you can build a young team around him, Collins will need to be his best ally.

While the 2015 Hawks’ 2015 starting lineup is now dispersed around the league, adding leadership to their respective teams, Schroder is barking out orders and telling his teammates to clear out. He didn’t steal Jeff Teague’s starting job so that he could mimic Teague’s playing style. In the Hawks’ season opener he drove at will on the Mavericks, going to his right every time before finishing with 28 points and seven assists.

Schroder is as fast in the halfcourt as any player in the NBA. He can finish at the basket and pull up for a jumper. His ridiculous length and aggression could theoretically combine to form an excellent perimeter defender. The NBA has no shortage of great point guards, but the Hawks have one who Steph Curry would not enjoy dealing with for seven games.

There isn’t a player in the NBA right now with a greater combination of a desire to run a team and the green light to do it. Schroder will be making $15 million this season and the next three after that. There’s a new era in Atlanta.

“His leadership is important to us, and his voice is important to us, and his understanding of everything we do is important to us,” Budenholzer told RealGM. “He’s got to be able to be a second voice for us that can help carry that message and whatever it is we’re doing in the locker room.”

This isn’t San Antonio. Schroder’s might not be the second voice in Atlanta. It might be the first.

Dennis is our best player, don't know if he wants to fit where we are wanting to go. If someone gave us a really great offer I would totally support trading him for a great pick/solid young player. I'm a fan but just don't feel like he is that dude that makes the whole team better when on the court. He's young though, still could end up being that type of player in a few years.

[tbhawksfan1]

Yeah to that. Hawks have time to give Schro to grow. Good thing they drafted Collins and put together a Bud team again. Making the rebuild much more palatable

[jayu70]

Dwight had 9 Turnovers in last nigh'ts game, wow

[Spud2nique]

Dwight had 9 Turnovers in last nigh'ts game, wow

Is he a point center now? Lol...he's got the apple turnover numbers that's for sure...hey where's that Hornets fan from before that we warned lol.

[Jamaaliver]

Things are not looking good for the BobCats:

Charlotte is down to 22nd in points per possession, with a predictable offense that hasn't evolved much.

Howard is rejuvenated, but his post game isn't helping -- even when it looks good. Post-ups have accounted for 38 percent of Howard's possessions. He's not productive enough to justify that volume.

Howard is shooting 48 percent on post-ups, a solid number, but he is bleeding turnovers. He has coughed it on almost 25 percent of his post-ups. Put it all together, and Howard post-ups are producing about 0.78 points per possession. You don't divert the offense this often for 0.78 points.

ESPN

[macd-gm]

Things are not looking good for the BobCats:

Charlotte is down to 22nd in points per possession, with a predictable offense that hasn't evolved much.

Howard is rejuvenated, but his post game isn't helping -- even when it looks good. Post-ups have accounted for 38 percent of Howard's possessions. He's not productive enough to justify that volume.

Howard is shooting 48 percent on post-ups, a solid number, but he is bleeding turnovers. He has coughed it on almost 25 percent of his post-ups. Put it all together, and Howard post-ups are producing about 0.78 points per possession. You don't divert the offense this often for 0.78 points.

ESPN

I mean that's the whole point. That's what everyone knows. That's what has changed about the nba but especially about Dwight and frankly if i'm in charge over there I'm concerned that the coaching staff is still trying. Bud may have been foolish to bring Dwight in (although not convinced that was Bud), but at least he didn't compound the folly by force feeding Dwight in the post.

[graymule]

Just wondering, how do the fans there feel about Dwight, AKA D8, now that he's had time with his new team?
Also, how is he getting along with his new coaches and team mates?

Personally, I believe that the Hawks got the best end of the trade. I would do it again. Would you?

[jayu70]

:crazy:

Just wondering, how do the fans there feel about Dwight, AKA D8, now that he's had time with his new team?
Also, how is he getting along with his new coaches and team mates?

Personally, I believe that the Hawks got the best end of the trade. I would do it again. Would you?

Hornets fans are mixed but for the most part sound like we did about Dwight. The things that make him special he ca no longer do effectively but still thinks he can.

Unread post#524 » by HornetsCub » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:33 pm
I was at the game last night. I enjoy seeing Dwight taking up space and grabbing rebounds, but anything else is painful. As tall as he is, he can no longer jump. They had to have been more than 5-6 turnovers when they were trying to lob it to him, either he missed, it, bad pass, or he was not even looking for it. He pump fakes more than a 6' guy.
I guess he he could be in a movie: Dwight men can't jump.

They've got their own thread on Dwight...
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1579997&start=520#start_here

[LamarHampton]

:crazy:

Just wondering, how do the fans there feel about Dwight, AKA D8, now that he's had time with his new team?
Also, how is he getting along with his new coaches and team mates?

Personally, I believe that the Hawks got the best end of the trade. I would do it again. Would you?

Idk if he sucks so bad then why would we care if he was on our tanking team? We haven't used any of the assets or space we got to make any moves yet, so on that front it's too early to say I think. I still wish we had that #31 pick (Jordan Bell) instead of what's his face #41 that has looked good in the GLeague but nothing much so far this year. Still think that whole situation lost us a better draft pick and despite his admitted flaws wasn't truly fair to Dwight and arguably made us look bad imho, and until we make positive use of what we got in the trade I still have to think that the trade is at best undecided and at worst a negative. Not like I looooove Dwight or anything, just trying to be objective. If it hadn't been for that pick swap I'd be happier

[Jamaaliver]

:crazy:

Just wondering, how do the fans there feel about Dwight, AKA D8, now that he's had time with his new team?
Also, how is he getting along with his new coaches and team mates?

Personally, I believe that the Hawks got the best end of the trade. I would do it again. Would you?

Idk if he sucks so bad then why would we care if he was on our tanking team? Not like I looooove Dwight or anything, just trying to be objective. If it hadn't been for that pick swap I'd be happier

Word is Dwight was problematic in the locker room and not particularly beloved by the players or coaches.

Having that around young, impressionable players during a losing season seems less than ideal. If we hadn't moved him, I think we'd have just used the stretch provision (is that still a thing) and ask him to walk away the way Detroit did with Josh Smith.

So, to answer GM's original question...yeah. I'd do what it took to get rid of him.

Addition by subtraction at this point.