Potential Coaching Options Moving Forward

Post #21 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:41 pm

kg01 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:^Jerry West is a dodo?

No but Steve Ballmer is.

I still don't get how you could call this guy a dodo...

I do this after every Hawks playoff loss.

Wait...this image is after a victory?!?

LOL what a dodo...

kg01 · Post #22 » by **kg01** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:46 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
kg01 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:^Jerry West is a dodo?

No but Steve Ballmer is.

I still don't get how you could call this guy a dodo...

I do this after every Hawks playoff loss.

Wait...this image is after a victory?!?

LOL what a dodo...

That's clearly video of @spud2nique watching his weekly Lifetime movie marathon. :lol:

Post #23 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:03 pm

On topic, I do think Budenholzer will have many suitors next summer. I'm not advocating his departure, but I no longer think the roof caves in if he goes elsewhere.

And working for Jerry West, with a top 15 NBA player in a top 2 NBA market would have to be appealing to anyone. Especially since most of the guys Bud had built up emotional connections with have departed in recent years.

(Ferry, Snyder, Atkinson, Wilcox, Horford, Millsap, Korver, Levenson)

AND for the record, Nate Tibbetts is my choice for Phase One of the rebuild.

In the Hawks favor:

Read on Twitter

jayu70 · Post #24 » by **jayu70** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:56 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
macd-gm wrote:I do not support a coaching change at all but i do see teams making offers to pull Bud away.

I expect NYK and LAC to make a serious run at Budenholzer. Offering tons of money, input on personnel and a superstar at the PF position to build around.

I can't see Bud going to work for Dolan - nightmare. He may not even have Porzy to coach considering comments by his brother/agent awhile ago regarding an extention.
Clippers would have Blake Griffin and not much else (Jordan is being dangled in trade talks and has a PO). Jerry West is running the show, no place for personnel input.

diesel50 · Post #25 » by **diesel50** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:34 pm

If we're not keeping Bud...

David Fizdale is the guy we ought to go after...
I like his fire!

LamarHampton · Post #26 » by **LamarHampton** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:30 am

Jamaaliver wrote:On topic, I do think Budenholzer will have many suitors next summer. I'm not advocating his departure, but I no longer think the roof caves in if he goes elsewhere.

... Especially since most of the guys Bud had built up emotional connections with have departed in recent years.

(Ferry, Snyder, Atkinson, Wilcox, Horford, Millsap, Korver, Levenson)

Agreed. I used to be enamored with Bud but the more I see him without the influence of Quinn and Kenny, the more I think that they were really solid influences on him and may have been the behind-the-scenes Magic makers in terms of player development and possibly in-game sub patterns and play calling. I have just been really confused a lot by some of the sub patterns and plays since they left, and there were some player quotes that led me to believe that their development had more to do with the former assistants (those "daily vitamins" or whatever for instance). So I too am not too worried if Bud is not extended etc. And I wouldn't really blame him for leaving either. I'm good.

macd-gm · Post #27 » by **macd-gm** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:12 pm

LamarHampton wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:On topic, I do think Budenholzer will have many suitors next summer. I'm not advocating his departure, but I no longer think the roof caves in if he goes elsewhere.

... Especially since most of the guys Bud had built up emotional connections with have departed in recent years.

(Ferry, Snyder, Atkinson, Wilcox, Horford, Millsap, Korver, Levenson)

Agreed. I used to be enamored with Bud but the more I see him without the influence of Quinn and Kenny, the more I think that they were really solid influences on him and may have been the behind-the-scenes Magic makers in terms of player development and possibly in-game sub patterns and play calling. I have just been really confused a lot by some of the sub patterns and plays since they left, and there were some player quotes that led me to believe that their development had more to do with the former assistants (those "daily vitamins" or whatever for instance). So I too am not too worried if Bud is not extended etc. And I wouldn't really blame him for leaving either. I'm good.

Quin was only here for one year and I know he was a big influence on guys like Demarre, but I think we're giving him a little too much credit for player development in his short time as a hawks coach. Atkinson I can see.

LamarHampton · Post #28 » by **LamarHampton** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm

macd-gm wrote:
Quin was only here for one year and I know he was a big influence on guys like Demarre, but I think we're giving him a little too much credit for player development in his short time as a hawks coach. Atkinson I can see.

Maybe. Can't really think of anyone who I can say really developed well under the tutelage of the coaching staff since Quinn/Atkinson left though, so also feel like Bud is getting a lot more credit than he is due. Yea I recognize that wasn't that long ago, but Who has developed? Baze? Nay nay. Moose? Nay nay. Maybe Prince, but really hard to say, probably better to judge with non-rookies/sophomores. Not saying the guy is bad at coaching or player development, just that I am becoming suspicious and I have my eye on him.

macd-gm · Post #29 » by **macd-gm** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:50 pm

LamarHampton wrote:
macd-gm wrote:
Quin was only here for one year and I know he was a big influence on guys like Demarre, but I think we're giving him a little too much credit for player development in his short time as a hawks coach. Atkinson I can see.

Maybe. Can't really think of anyone who I can say really developed well under the tutelage of the coaching staff since Quinn/Atkinson left though, so also feel like Bud is getting a lot more credit than he is due. Yea I recognize that wasn't that long ago, but Who has developed? Baze? Nay nay. Moose? Nay nay. Maybe Prince, but really hard to say, probably better to judge with non-rookies/sophomores. Not saying the guy is bad at coaching or player development, just that I am becoming suspicious and I have my eye on him.

Well even if he's not the hands on guy responsible for the development, Bud should get a lot of credit for being the guy in charge who setup a whole development system and hired good people to do the work. This whole concept of development (including modern physical training techniques) is something that never existed here in Atlanta before Bud.

Post #30 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:09 pm

^I'm sad to say, a lot of what you're thinking of was due to Danny Ferry. He negotiated way back in 2013 that he expected the franchise to invest heavily in analytics, player development and a D-League franchise. New ownership made it a priority after Atlanta Spirit dragged their feet.

Bud has been a part of that movement, but he was not the impetus.

macd-gm · Post #31 » by **macd-gm** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:13 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:^I'm sad to say, a lot of what you're thinking of was due to Danny Ferry. He negotiated way back in 2013 that he expected the franchise to invest heavily in analytics, player development and a D-League franchise. New ownership made it a priority after Atlanta Spirit dragged their feet.

Bud has been a part of that movement, but he was not the impetus.

Hmmm. I don't have first hand knowledge but I see it differently. I agree Ferry wanted that to be a priority and hired his guy Bud to lead the effort.

Post #32 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:46 pm

macd-gm wrote:Hmmm. I don't have first hand knowledge but I see it differently. I agree Ferry wanted that to be a priority and hired his guy Bud to lead the effort.

RealGM Wiretap wrote:Other GMs Called Danny Ferry's Hawks' Contract 'Golden Ticket'

The Atlanta Hawks hired Danny Ferry in 2012 with a six-year deal paying him $2 million annually.

The Hawks also gave Ferry guarantees they would invest into a D-League team and a new practice facility, plus he only had to report to Bruce Levenson.

Ferry's contract was one of the best ever secured by an NBA general manager with a six-year deal being almost unheard of outside of someone like Pat Riley or Gregg Popovich. Other general managers started referring to Ferry's arrangement as the "Golden Ticket."

RealGM Wiretap

macd-gm · Post #33 » by **macd-gm** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:48 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
macd-gm wrote:Hmmm. I don't have first hand knowledge but I see it differently. I agree Ferry wanted that to be a priority and hired his guy Bud to lead the effort.

RealGM Wiretap wrote:Other GMs Called Danny Ferry's Hawks' Contract 'Golden Ticket'

The Atlanta Hawks hired Danny Ferry in 2012 with a six-year deal paying him $2 million annually.

The Hawks also gave Ferry guarantees they would invest into a D-League team and a new practice facility, plus he only had to report to Bruce Levenson.

Ferry's contract was one of the best ever secured by an NBA general manager with a six-year deal being almost unheard of outside of someone like Pat Riley or Gregg Popovich. Other general managers started referring to Ferry's arrangement as the "Golden Ticket."
RealGM Wiretap

Is that supposed to show that Ferry was the guy responsible for player development?

Post #34 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:52 pm

NO. Just documentation referring to the fact Ferry negotiated a number of these amenities a when Larry Drew was still coach in 2012.

Also noteworthy: Ferry's contract was through Summer 2018. It's rumored that Budenholzer's contract also expires in Summer 2018.

This was the entire reason this controversial thread exists.

macd-gm · Post #35 » by **macd-gm** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:00 pm

Seems like we are giving tons a credit to Quin Snyder, Kenny Atkinson, and Danny Ferry for the Hawks impressive player development program and none to the guy who has actually been here the whole time running the thing. I'm pretty sure if you asked those three guys they'd point to Bud as the man driving the player development ship.

Post #36 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:12 pm

^It's not a slight against Budenholzer. It's just that Head Coaches have so much on their plate, player development usually falls to the assistants.

Then Budenholzer was promoted to Pres of BBall Ops and was massively overwhelmed with the added responsibilities.

Budenholzer got tons of credit for player development in SAS--as the assistant. That's par for the course.

...when Budenholzer was brought on in Atlanta in 2013, Ferry strongly recommended retaining Atkinson, his first hire. Budenholzer didn't need much persuading. Player development was Atkinson's strength and it was a priority in Atlanta. And feedback among the Hawks players was so overwhelmingly positive bringing Atkinson back was a no-brainer.

ESPN in 2015

Atkinson moved on to the Hawks in 2013 where he's credited with being one of the better player development coaching assistants around the NBA. He's been the top assistant coach under Mike Budenholzer in Atlanta for the past two seasons.

CBS Sports 2016

As a coach, Atkinson tends to have a particular focus on player development and helping young players to improve. After his first assistant coaching job with Paris Basket Racing, Atkinson returned to the States as head of player development for the Houston Rockets.

Hoops Habit in 2015

Chris Jent, the former Ohio State basketball and Cavaliers assistant coach, has landed back in the NBA.

The Atlanta Hawks on Friday announced that they've hired Jent as an assistant coach on head coach Mike Budenholzer's staff.

"Chris is a great fit with our coaching staff. Player development is at the core of our basketball program and he has a track record of improving players' skill level and understanding of the game at every level," Budenholzer said in a statement.

Cleveland.com in 2017

Post #37 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:28 pm

kg01 wrote: I'm cool with you being anti-Budz but only if you can present a better alternative.

More coaching options:

Jay Larranaga, Boston Celtics assistant coach

Mention of Larranaga's name was met with praise around the league as a hard-working pro who is universally liked and respected...

[He] enjoyed a solid run in the D-League as a head coach for two seasons before landing on Rivers' bench in Boston, where he remains under Stevens.

...a coach who understands how to relate to a varied roster of players, can motivate a staff and whose likability will endear him to ownership and the media.

ESPN

Nate Bjorkgren, Bakersfield Jam head coach

Bjorkgren has compiled a robust D-League resume with sustained success wherever he's landed. He is known as an intensely self-critical coach who viscerally hates losing. His supporters describe someone who has...learned when to push buttons and when to lay off, both with players and staff.

"He's won everywhere he's been," says Warriors assistant GM Kirk Lacob, who was instrumental in hiring Bjorkgren at Dakota when it was Golden State's affiliate. "He does a great job with players. He connects with them on a personal level, and also he cares about their personal careers."

Regarded less as an innovator-philosopher and more as pragmatic problem-solver...

ESPN

*Updated to include:
Jay Wright, Head Coach of Villanova

kg01 · Post #38 » by **kg01** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Yeah, Jay Larranaga was in the running for GT's coaching position a year ago ... we decided he wasn't ready to be a head coach ... at Georgia Tech ... but yeah, he's a good name for the Hawks. SMH

#PleaseStahhp

Post #39 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:38 pm

^Yeah, he does strike me as a career assistant as well. Similar to Tex Winters.

I'd love to see him brought as top assistant for a young first time coach. He brings a measure of experience and respectability to any bench.

jayu70 · Post #40 » by **jayu70** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:07 pm

It's a collaborative effort by Bud and his entire coaching staff.
I know we all want all of our players to develop but some just won't because of their own limitations. The coaches put them in position to succeed but they aren't magicians.
A lot of credit is given to Kenny (who was actually on staff prior to Bud) for DMC's development, how'd he look in Toronto? So was it Bud's system that made him look more developed or actual development? Did Kenny develop Moose or no? He had him longer than DMC. Some guys just have a limit.

Can Bud be better at in game decisions, rotations etc? Sure. Bud has 4 years under his belt as a headcoach, he hasn't reached his peak/prime as yet. I'm thinking the President of BBall ops position also took away some of his coaching focus.