Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[lilfishi22]

I can't believe we have fans who honestly see the playoffs as realistic. It's beyond insane. Oklahoma City, with the reigning MVP and one of the top 2 way players in basketball both in their primes, combined with guys like Melo and Adams, is currently 10th, and that's with a coach like Billy Donovan who is much better than what we have.

We are in 13th in the West despite playing the 4th or 5th easiest schedule in basketball. The playoffs are not at all a reasonable possibility for this team.

As our roster stands, it's not realistic at all. I don't know if it's possible but if we could make some moves to shore up our PG and PF/C position, we'll have the pieces to be very competitive and could give an 8th spot a run.

OKC is trying to integrate 3 high usage players. Their 10th spot right now is deceiving.

But that is exactly my point. OKC will take one of those spots, so you are having to look at Phx and the rest of the other 7 and say we have a shot at beating those teams if we grab PG X or PF Y, and that is just wrong. Utah is going to get Gobert back. The Clippers might be realistic to catch but the others are not, including Denver who has underachieved thus far.

I'm just saying that 8th spot is always a fight. If we decided that we want to make playoffs this season and pull off the moves, we're likely as talented as Utah and Denver. I'm not saying we should sell all our picks to make the playoffs just to prove my point but it's not unrealistic to think if we could plug the gaps we have at those spots, we could be fighting for that 8th spot.

[Kilo]

Would PHX have any interest in Boban (7M next season) and two small expirings Reggie Bullock and Eric Moreland for Tyson Chandler. You'd save about $5M off next years cap.

[lilfishi22]

Would PHX have any interest in Boban (7M next season) and two small expirings Reggie Bullock and Eric Moreland for Tyson Chandler. You'd save about $5M off next years cap.

I don't think we need the $5m is savings. We already have Moose coming off the books this offseason.

[lilfishi22]

I hate the notion that since the suns haven't hit on a top pick that they shouldn't care if they have more high picks. Such a defeatist way of thinking. How about they do a better job and pick the right **** player this time.

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That's an equally questionable notion. Like all this time we haven't really been trying to do the best job to pick the right player

Of course they were trying but its ultimately a results based world. I don't expect a gm to hit every pick but they need more hits than McD has had the past couple years.



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Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending how you see it) McD is still in charge and making those picks

[NavLDO]

Do we want Jordan? How does he fit in here?

I heard Gambo - not sure I want Jordan but can they somehow take Knight for Austin Rivers

So Monroe, Len, Knight, Miami first for Rivers, Jordan

I would prefer even Chandler instead of Knight if need be - need to keep the cap good for 2020 and Jordan will want to get paid

I say pass

Need a point guard - Gambo mentioned George Hill again

I have long figured we were a possible suitor for Jordan. He is simply a category above the centers on our roster. I think we would have a solid shot at the playoffs. Plus, if Jordan wants a payday, we'd be one of the few teams well positioned to pay top dollar.

I think we should get our choice of Beverley/Teodosic/Williams in the deal. They will want Monroe, and this will give us an advantage, because very few teams have large expirings to exchange. They may be okay accepting Chandler, and Chandler may be okay with the move, given his LA roots. Including Knight is probably a non-starter.

My goal would be to minimize the draft pick cost - try to limit this to one first. We could send them all the seconds and not be harmed. Given their lack of young talent, I could see LAC valuing that positively. To accomplish this, I would consider dealing Ulis and DJJ (if they value either positively). I would try to keep Quese off the table. Obviously, none of Bender, Booker, TJ, JJ, PHX '18 or MIA '21 would be on the table.

My target deal would be something like this (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7k6mkxs) plus MIL '18 (1st), MEM/CHA/MIA '18 (2d), MIL '18 (cond. 2d), PHX '18 (2d).

We'd have to give up more than DJJ and 2nds; they will want 1sts. I would minimize giving up our players, but throw picks at them all day. We don't need two picks next season. And we certainly do not need 3 if by some weird stroke of luck, we actually end up with the Buck's pick. I would, of course, trade Monroe and Chandler, but also include the Buck's pick...whenever it's conveyed, plus Mia 2018 1st. Maybe something like...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y88rm7s3

We also gain $4+M in the process...sort of...

James/Booker/Warren/Bender/Jordan

...with reserves of Ulis, Daniels, JJ, Harrell, and Len, we might get an 8th seed with that squad.

That would basically be Monroe, Chandler, Chriss, Bucks 1st, Mia 1st for Jordan, Beverly (with a non-guaranteed 2018 season) and Harrell.

[NavLDO]

The problem with DeAndre Jordan is that he needs a good PG to feed him the ball consistently down low for him to be effective offensively.

He takes a huge 87% of his shots 0-3 feet from the rim and converts an amazing 74% of his shots from that distance. However, he is assisted 71% of the time on 2-point shots made. Who do we have that can dish assists to him consistently so DeAndre can be effective offensively? Unless we can trade for a pass first type PG I would pass on Jordan.

Yet, no one seemed to mind when we brought in Chandler who takes NINETY-7% of his shots from within 3ft...not sure how that would be any different than what we've had for the past 3 years...except Jordan is more athletic and and even better defender...

[NavLDO]

I want a stretch 5, not a one dimensional guy like DeAndre. It would be different if he had a post game and was a legit 22/12 guy, but he's not.

Truthfully (and I'm prepared for the pitchforks) I'd rather sign Jah to a two year deal and keep Tyson around to mentor him.

I'm all down to start accelerating this rebuild by adding legit stars on fat deals, but not borderline guys like Jordan or injured plagued guys like Blake.

Multidimensional bigs are hard to find, difficult to obtain and are rarely available. DAJ might be one dimensional (bit of an exaggeration) but he's near elite on that end of the court. And for $22m, $24m, it's not a huge price to pay. We don't necessarily need to resign him to $35m a year either.

Exactly...I don't see demand for his services requiring us to pay more than what he's making now...he can go look, but with the aount of good Centers already in the league, and the 3-4 promising rookies coming into the league? He's going to have hard time demanding that level of money and getting it. In fact, I bet McD could offer him 4/$80M, and Jordan eventually signing for that...

AD
Gobert
Gasol
Embiid
Towns
Cousins
Noel
Horford
Valanciunas
Drummond
Jokic
Nurkic
Adams
Okafor
Whiteside
Howard
Lopez
WCS
Thompson
Monroe
Papagiannis
Biyombo
Dieng
Vucevic

then...

Ayton
Bamba
Williams
Bagley (??)

Who is going to pay top dollar for him???

[NavLDO]

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

But you also have to admit/realize, we lost our first game by 50, which highly skews that number, but yes, the fact that we've played a rather easy schedule does portend difficult times ahead.

Yeah, but other teams get blown out too, so no one is throwing them out for this purpose. It's not just the first game (which Portland played their 3rd stringers in the 4th or it would have been worse), but two of our first three, then we got killed by Houston (gave up 90 in a half) and the Pelicans (were down by 30 at the half and Cousins/Davis rested the 4th). Many of these games we would have lost worse had they not rested people in second half.

Even with a PG I don't see a shot at any sort of playoff seed. Lets see what our record looks like after the next 9 games. If we could somehow win like 5 of those games, I might change my tune, but we might be hard pressed to win a couple of them. The Kings look like the only one we should win on paper.

Fair enough...but I was pointing out that game specifically because I believe it's still the highest point differential of the season.

But yes, as the schedule gets tougher, I agree, the wins will likely become fewer and fewer. But if we had a decent PG, I really do think we could compete...maybe not win that many more, but at least be more competitive.

[Waylay13]

Enough with the tanking. Winning games is not treadmilling. It's not all or nothing. There's steps you have to take to be a title contender and getting to the damn playoffs is the first one.

if by winning games you mean that you are going to only get better enough to make the 7th or 8th spot playoffs for the next 5 years and nothing more that is tread-milling. Personally I want to have a team that has a chance to win something more then early exit in the playoffs if that means you spend a some time gathering and developing young talent then that is much better the treading water and an early playoff exit.

[AtheJ415]

The problem with DeAndre Jordan is that he needs a good PG to feed him the ball consistently down low for him to be effective offensively.

He takes a huge 87% of his shots 0-3 feet from the rim and converts an amazing 74% of his shots from that distance. However, he is assisted 71% of the time on 2-point shots made. Who do we have that can dish assists to him consistently so DeAndre can be effective offensively? Unless we can trade for a pass first type PG I would pass on Jordan.

Yet, no one seemed to mind when we brought in Chandler who takes NINETY-7% of his shots from within 3ft...not sure how that would be any different than what we've had for the past 3 years...except Jordan is more athletic and and even better defender...

You're joking right? This board had a collective meltdown when Chandler was brought in except for the "let's grab that 8 seed" brigade. A TON of people had a problem with it. Most only even tolerated it because they thought Aldridge might be coming with him.

[AtheJ415]

Also, people should keep in mind that even in the nonsensical world where Deandre signs for just $20 mil/year, that prevents us from getting a max player this year and next, and after that Booker's extension kicks in, so you are in effect trading that salary for the chance at getting a max player in the next about 5 years in FA.

I truly see no good coming from a trade for DJ except for wins in the next 2 years. After that the opportunity cost is such that he probably costs us wins relative to the alternatives.

[RaisingArizona]

Enough with the tanking. Winning games is not treadmilling. It's not all or nothing. There's steps you have to take to be a title contender and getting to the damn playoffs is the first one.

if by winning games you mean that you are going to only get better enough to make the 7th or 8th spot playoffs for the next 5 years and nothing more that is tread-milling. Personally I want to have a team that has a chance to win something more then early exit in the playoffs if that means you spend a some time gathering and developing young talent then that is much better the treading water and an early playoff exit.

Why is it for the next 5 years with you guys? Teams don't always stay at the same talent level. I'm not suggesting trading for Marc Gasol who only has a year or two of his prime left. I'm imploring McD to trade for a somewhat younger up and coming star that we can pair Booker and TJ with. I just cannot see us being attractive to players and FAs losing by 30 points every night. We have the assets to make it happen. It all starts with getting NBA starter level talent at the PG and PF position. Right now we lack both.

[RaisingArizona]

2012 would have been the year to tank and move up. Really bad luck for us that nobody slipped. http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/

[kennydorglas]

2012 would have been the year to tank and move up. Really bad luck for us that nobody slipped. http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/

Pretty wild 2nd round talent too... but of course we couldnt pick anyone there.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Chandler (2014) 10 points, 11 rebounds, 1 block @ 66% FG
Jordan (2017) 10 points, 13 rebounds, 1 block @ 66% FG

[NavLDO]

The problem with DeAndre Jordan is that he needs a good PG to feed him the ball consistently down low for him to be effective offensively.

He takes a huge 87% of his shots 0-3 feet from the rim and converts an amazing 74% of his shots from that distance. However, he is assisted 71% of the time on 2-point shots made. Who do we have that can dish assists to him consistently so DeAndre can be effective offensively? Unless we can trade for a pass first type PG I would pass on Jordan.

Yet, no one seemed to mind when we brought in Chandler who takes NINETY-7% of his shots from within 3ft...not sure how that would be any different than what we've had for the past 3 years...except Jordan is more athletic and and even better defender...

You're joking right? This board had a collective meltdown when Chandler was brought in except for the "let's grab that 8 seed" brigade. A TON of people had a problem with it. Most only even tolerated it because they thought Aldridge might be coming with him.

That's not what I meant; sorry, I should have been more clear. No one has brought up the fact that he only shoots 97% of his shots from around the rim as being a problem. They've listed a multitude of other issues--age being the most prominent, but you just do not see anywhere in game threads about how Chandler's 'form' of offense has been such a detractor to our success; just, again, his age.

[Saberestar]

We are in a really bad position IF we stay pat.

We have options to make some moves and improve the roster, all those picks are useless if we stay pat because we are not gonna draft six or seven guys next year.

IMO this team needs an starting PG, and an starting PF ASAP.

Yes...Bender and Chriss are awful, both can play a good game from time to time but they are terrible and they do not deserve to play more than a few minutes per game. Both are getting humiliated so many times playing against starting players.

I'm seriously thinking that they can be out of the league in a couple of years, like Thomas Robinson (Chriss) or Tskitishvili (Bender). Hopefully not.

We can upgrade the C position too.

If some really good big becomes available we need to trade for him. Players like DeAndre, Drummond or Gasol are 10 times better than what we have at C, one of them at our roster would be an amazing influx of talent.

So...we need talented players at three positions. One at a time, but we need to begin NOW.

[RunDogGun]

2012 would have been the year to tank and move up. Really bad luck for us that nobody slipped. http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/

That was the draft I kept saying we should have made the trade that Dallas made. We had a better pick then them. We could have grabbed Middleton and O’Quinn in the second round. But we instead grabbed Marshall after we lost out on Lamb.

[RaisingArizona]

We are in a really bad position IF we stay pat.

We have options to make some moves and improve the roster, all those picks are useless if we stay pat because we are not gonna draft six or seven guys next year.

IMO this team needs an starting PG, and an starting PF ASAP.

Yes...Bender and Chriss are awful, both can play a good game from time to time but they are terrible and they do not deserve to play more than a few minutes per game. Both are getting humiliated so many times playing against starting players.

I'm seriously thinking that they can be out of the league in a couple of years, like Thomas Robinson (Chriss) or Tskitishvili (Bender). Hopefully not.

We can upgrade the C position too.

If some really good big becomes available we need to trade for him. Players like DeAndre, Drummond or Gasol are 10 times better than what we have at C, one of them at our roster would be an amazing influx of talent.

So...we need talented players at three positions. One at a time, but we need to begin NOW.

Agree 100%.

[Djedefre]

I hope they're doing hc interviews across the NCAA. Triano's not the answer, that's for sure.