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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1981 » by NavLDO » Sat Dec 2, 2017 11:08 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
A team full of mid lotto first round guys should yield you something pretty good unless you just can't make picks. DeAndre Jordan was a second round pick...#35.

GS got Curry and Thompson mid lottery and Green in the 2nd round.

Philly and Boston's plans were to stockpile picks, draft some players in the lottery and then when you have your core, sign a FA or make a trade.

Philly drafted Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Holmes, Korkmaz, Luwawu and once they had that core, they traded a couple of picks for Fultz and signed Redick.

Boston drafted Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Olynyk, Brown, then signed Horford and traded of IT, and then they drafted Taytum, signed Hayward and traded for Irving.

A plan to build through the draft, stockpile picks, and cash in when the time is right isn't a bad plan if it's executed correctly. To continue to go away from your plan to try and make a splash and compete now when our team is full of 20 years olds is a recipe for disaster. How many years do we have to see it to believe it?

This conbuilding or whatever people call it doesn't work well.

Anyway, like I said, our glaring holes are PG and PF. DeAndre Jordan doesn't really solve our biggest current problems. He gives us a slight upgrade. He's a great rebounder but we already have rebounders. He is a better shot blocker than Len and finishes around the rim about as good as Tyson. And he can't fit free throws and makes $24 million.


Not that I wholly disagree with your point, but how many 20YOs do you want on the roster?

And regarding PFs being our biggest weakness, are you including Chandler as one of our Centers? Because he'snot in our future...like, at all, and outside of him, we have 2 guys about to leave and a broken 'Sauce'; yet we have 2 x 20YO PFs that have some promise. You can't look at them after 90-100 games and give up on them yet...well, you can, but that wouldn't be fair, IMO. Chriss has shown some nice 3PT shooting and Blocking skills, and Bender has as well, plus defensive ability to stay with anyone but the quickest of PGs.

I worry that if we do not get someone in here soon, that we might lose Booker. Sometimes, a 5th year isn't enough to keep someone on a losing team.

We have Booker and Warren; we need to show Booker we are committed to development of this team sooner rather than later, and by that, not bringing in 1-2 more 20YOs that will take another 3 years to develop.

Then, of course, there is us, the fans...some us...ok, ME...are getting tired of the 7, 8, 9-year plan:

Kieff- FAIL
Marshall - UBER-Fail
Len - Sort-of-Fail
Warren - Hit
Booker - Hit
Chriss/Bender - Too early to tell, but it's going SLOOOWWWW
JJ - Not the 'instant' Hit everyone as hoping for...

Those other teams you mentioned were able to turn their picks, etc., in to players. We can do the same thing, yet we sit here with an awesome SF, and an up-and-coming...SF? Why??? Honestly, why are we not turning JJ, Bender, and/or Chriss, plus 2 x Miami Picks and a Mil pick into ONE star player (obviously, not all of them, but some...)

What happens when JJ 'gets good'?

YAY, we have TWO awesome SFs, TWO developing PFs...and STILL no PG or C of the future. It just seems like NOW is an ideal time for McD to execute his plan (and by now, I mean anytime before next season; not RIGHT now.)


About PF vs C I was talking about our team this year, and where are biggest weaknesses are because the discussion was primarily about how good we are right now. This year we have quite a few Cs despite one of them being out. As for the future, my hope is to address it in the draft since there are 5-6 centers in the top 10-12. On top of that, Cs were cheap on the market this past year and there is an expected further depressed market this summer with a limited number of teams having cap space and a number of free agent Cs hitting the market. It will be a buyers market if we really want one.

I was very tired of Sarver and the quick fixes we keep trying to do it with ever changing coaches and a churning roster. I think continuity is important.

I've always wanted to build through the draft. All of our picks won't pan out. Hopefully many of them do. Hopefully we have or get the right coach in place. I'm not about patching together a few vets with all these youngsters in what I think would be an ill fated short sighted attempt to get better quickly.

Our players need to mature and grow and we need to use picks, let them fight it out, and see what our core's strengths are and then add free agents. The west is loaded with all stars right now.

I think eventually we will make a pick this year. If we use our picks wisely this year, we may hit on someone who makes an impact fairly quickly. It's been pretty random which teams end up with these players.

When you say we have no PG or C in the future, and you want McD to execute some sort of plan, those of us wanting to build through the draft want us to use our two first rounders (hopefully we have at least two) to address C and PG.

PG is our most important position to address. I actually would like to get a vet PG on the roster right now but I've gone through the teams and have no idea who might be available. Maybe someone like George Hill who I'd be fine with if they want Monroe and to get out of his contract. I think he only has one year guaranteed after this one so we'd still clear cap space in 2019 to maybe go after a big name FA. I might take a look at Orlando's PGs but Payton will want a new contract soon. Augustin might make too much, though he has played well.

The thing I hate most about our team this year is the PG position so I'm open to thoughts there but ultimately hope we can address it in the draft (even though I still think it might be important to have a vet there too anyway).


All valid points. I think the biggest issue is wasting picks on players/positions that are already shored up.

I'm not going to repeat myself for the 6th time, but you see my argument. We will never TRULY know what we have in Chriss or Bender until we commit to one of them, have a PG, and have a Permanent Head Coach, because let's face it; right now, the only thing Triano's worried about is trying to impress McD/Sarver so he can hopefully become the full time HC, so if he thinks today, Bender gives him the best chance to win, he'll play Bender. If tomorrow, he feels Chriss is the better match up, he'll play Chriss; there's no consistency.

As far as PGs, I agree, I think Payton would be worthy of being brought in. Also, Dinwiddie has been brought up. Other young guys like Schroder, or whoever loses out between Jerian Grant and Kris Dunn out of Chicago. Yeah, yeah, their team is worsethan ours, but it's not due to their PGs, per se. In fact, they may be our best trade partner.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8bdezjk

We kind of rewind the draft and take Markkanen, they get JJ. We get our PG in Jerian Grant, who's really played well these least 5 games; hopefully that means he's coming around. We also take on Portis to prevent another 'issue'. Sure, they've all made up and are talking nice, but we are all men here, and we know better. They get to figure out the Bender and Chriss conundrum, and we also get Valentine (just because he was one of my favorite prospects a couple years back). Plus we give them our 2018 pick.

Grant / Booker / Warren / Markkanen / Monroe

Ulis / Daniels / Valentine / Portis / Len or Chandler

We potentially get better instantly; the Bulls get their pick plus our pick, to help build upon JJ/Bender/Chriss/Dunn/LaVine/Mirotic

Meh, just a thought...they'd likely never let go of Markkanen, just like we wouldn't JJ, I guess.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1982 » by thamadkant » Sat Dec 2, 2017 11:47 pm

Yeah, Booker has immensely improved from last season... This season he is initiating offensively almost every time... he sees the floor much better and those touch shots layups are Curry-like... he's been working hard on his skills and he is a legit 25ppg scorer now... and for a while it looks.



Hence I proposed to get Cousins, because 4-5 more rookies will just lead to more "internal competition" for minutes and proving themselves. Suns need role players and stars... and a system. Bender, Chriss and Jackson can develop nicely with little pressure and BETTER quality shots, since they will be after thought from defenses.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1983 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Dec 3, 2017 12:05 am

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1984 » by NTB » Sun Dec 3, 2017 12:39 am

Ayo
carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1985 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:53 am

Mods? Welfare check!
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1986 » by RunDogGun » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:10 am

So are we just waiting until Dec 15th to make any moves?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1987 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:12 am

RunDogGun wrote:So are we just waiting until Dec 15th to make any moves?


I guess so. I am going to be really upset if we keep the roster construction what it is. We have a star and a really good support player. Build around them ASAP.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1988 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 3, 2017 7:54 am

We always think something will happen from Dec 15th.

But in the following 30 days across the league:

2013 - 0 trades
2014 - 2 trades
2015 - 6 trades
2016 - 2 trades
2017 - 1 trade
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1989 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:44 am

Around 25 games into the season and it looks like Donovan Mitchell is probably the best player in this year's rookie class (other than Simmons who is in his second professional year).

Mitchell was selected at #13.

Is he a worse player/prospect than Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox or Isaac? No, he is not.

Another example why I do not even care about tanking, ping pong balls and all of that.

Play the right way, make your team the best that you can and try to win. It is simple.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1990 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:49 am

Apart from the no.1 pick the most All-Stars of any other pick number in the past 20 years is 6 (30%).

So every single time a pick is made outside of no.1 it is unlikely to be an All-Star.

However if you can't acquire All-Stars through FA or Trade I would rather be drafting at 30% than 10%.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1991 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 3, 2017 12:41 pm

Read on Twitter


Great opportunity to get George Hill nearly for free. He is a good PG.
His contract is guaranteed only until next season ( he would replace Bledsoe's contract and position).

Monroe and a couple of second round picks for Hill.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1992 » by NavLDO » Sun Dec 3, 2017 1:17 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
1UPZ wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Wasnt the excuse why Chriss was fat was he was trying to add weight so he could bang with the much larger PF/C's in the league and not get pushed around? I thought they were saying that he gained the weight for that reason and the next step was to convert it to muscle.



You can't convert fat to muscle.

Muscle is muscle. Fat is under the skin.


He put on weight, looks more fat and water, but has trimmed down since, playing and training everyday does that.

But if he wants to get muscular, that takes longer...



Honestly though... Chriss's problem is not body.... but lack of IQ and how to use his body (legs) when defending... he uses his arms to play defense and not his lower body, which is how defense is played primarily....

What he's saying is he's put on weight (20lbs) which I can only assume is inclusive of fat. So I'm guessing he put on muscle but also put on fat as part of the process. Now he has to get rid of that excess fat. Totally agree with you though regarding his real problems on the court. Dudley at 32 with zero athleticism but great bball IQ often outplays Chriss which shouldn't happen.


Why shouldn't a 32YO Vet outplay a 20YO with far less experience than most 20YOs? Lebron's 34 and he outplay's darn near everyone.

The rest isn't aimed at you, lilfishi...just in general...

And who is coaching him into a better player/defender? I'm not saying no one is, but this is where his lack of experience is coming into play, and the inconsistency in the management of this team is not helping him any. I'm by no means, a Chriss apologist, but whatever happened to "these two guys will need time to develop"?? That whole premise has been thrown out the window, as of late.

These guys are barely into their 2nd season, and while it would be nice if they came in ready to contribute like some young players are, we ALL knew, from the moment they were drafted, that they BOTH were not NBA-ready, and were going to take a few years to develop. This should not come as a shock to anyone; yet apparently, it is.

IF we keep both, and IF by the end of NEXT season, they are still playing close to the level they are now, THEN I could understand all these posts about how slowly Chriss/Bender are coming along, but again, Chriss has played in 106 games. Bender has only played in 67.

And for a little bit of perspective, look at this link...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

Chriss actually matches up pretty darn favorably compared to others in that same draft class, so far. Everyone wants to compare him to Simmons; how about we compare him to those that were supposed to be more 'NBA Ready' than he, and NOT named 'Ben Simmons'

http://bkref.com/tiny/eMknO

Looks pretty darn good to me...comparatively...
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1993 » by Frank Lee » Sun Dec 3, 2017 1:36 pm

Saberestar wrote:Around 25 games into the season and it looks like Donovan Mitchell is probably the best player in this year's rookie class (other than Simmons who is in his second professional year).

Mitchell was selected at #13.

Is he a worse player/prospect than Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox or Isaac? No, he is not.

Another example why I do not even care about tanking, ping pong balls and all of that.

Play the right way, make your team the best that you can and try to win. It is simple.


The commitment to tank/draft/develop is a dangerous road to take

It handcuffs your ability to sign Free Agents (bad team does not attract good players)

It limits your trading ability. The assets you have are unproven and undetermined (future picks with strings). They are also the very players you are developing (Chris/Bender/?)

There is no guarantee you get a long term piece with a top pick (Len) and as proven year end and out value can be had throughout the draft.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1994 » by NavLDO » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:04 pm

Wilber85 wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:They seemed concerned about Chriss' motor.

That's not a good sign.

Should have traded him, #4 and Bledsoe for KP when we had that brief window of opportunity.


I do not believe that was ever a remote possibility.


I would do that in a heartbeat! I would have then!

I wish Jayson Tatum would have fallen to us! Booker and Tatum would have been a better future than him and JJ.

What all do you guys think about JJ?


So, not sure if you've heard of this guy Warren, that we have on our Roster. He's actually pretty good, and in many respects, a top 5 SF in the league this year. Why do you assume that JJ or Tatum were just going to come in here and take over?

And since we have Warren, and he IS playing so well, overall, I'm not sure what to think about JJ. If we get a coach in here that can somehow get all three of Booker, JJ, and Warren on the floor at the same time, without losing any critical functions of our team, and we can add a stud PG and Center, then let's do it.

If not, I do not see how any Head Coach can see the production that Warren gives, and then 'sits' him in favor of JJ.

I would propose considering trading JJ, since he was such a coveted prospect coming out, and using that fact to trade for a PG like Fultz. Maybe something like JJ, Chriss, and a Pick for Fultz and Okafor. Gets us our PG and Center and gives them a stud SF and a solid Bench PF, and a Pick.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7g2ewwx

Fultz / Booker / Warren / Bender / Okafor

Point is; use JJ and his, I would imagine, still present level of being coveted, and bring in players we need, as opposed to players we don't. I know everyone is still high on JJ, and I am too, but not at the expense of our team's success.

If it makes more sense to trade Warren and keep JJ, then so be it. Warren could bring in a nice haul as well, considering his level of play this year and his contract. McD needs to start trading pieces while they are still peaking in value, not when they pull a 'Dragic' or 'Bledsoe'. We have pieces; once December 14th hits, and a lot of players become available, McD needs to start making some phone calls...
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1995 » by Frank Lee » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:28 pm

Case in point Nav

How do you justify trading the player you’ve buttrubbing since the draft? Same goes for Chris.... these big maybe rooks and second yr guys have little value other than potential, unless of course, they ball-out.

We are not in a good spot to trade. Our vets are worthless, and our expendable kids are unproven and lacking vital skills to make a difference in this league. Oh, that’s right.... they are young and just need time.... meanwhile, the treadmill of a different style churns on.

Odds say only one of Jackson, Bender, and Chris will pan out as a valid starter. McD has already whiffed on a few other picks, and really just has Booker and Warren to show for the past 4 years of rebuilding a team.

It’s not a good place we are in. We are actually coveting cast offs (Okafor) and have gone to the lengths of signing and starting cheap talent (James). When George Hill takes on savior status you know things are amiss.

I don’t see a way out. May be Hill is available, he certainly is an upgrade. I wouldn’t be surprised if we make a play for JLin next year..... something needs to happen as this yr looks shot
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1996 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:50 pm

George Hill is not that good and turning 32.

He gets us to 30 wins instead of 25 and then he needs replacing.

If you believe Dennis Schroder has the highest ceiling of the gettable PGs pay the price - Miami, Miami, Milwaukee, Toronto, Memphis, Chriss.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1997 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:26 pm

NavLDO wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
1UPZ wrote:

You can't convert fat to muscle.

Muscle is muscle. Fat is under the skin.


He put on weight, looks more fat and water, but has trimmed down since, playing and training everyday does that.

But if he wants to get muscular, that takes longer...



Honestly though... Chriss's problem is not body.... but lack of IQ and how to use his body (legs) when defending... he uses his arms to play defense and not his lower body, which is how defense is played primarily....

What he's saying is he's put on weight (20lbs) which I can only assume is inclusive of fat. So I'm guessing he put on muscle but also put on fat as part of the process. Now he has to get rid of that excess fat. Totally agree with you though regarding his real problems on the court. Dudley at 32 with zero athleticism but great bball IQ often outplays Chriss which shouldn't happen.


Why shouldn't a 32YO Vet outplay a 20YO with far less experience than most 20YOs? Lebron's 34 and he outplay's darn near everyone.

The rest isn't aimed at you, lilfishi...just in general...

And who is coaching him into a better player/defender? I'm not saying no one is, but this is where his lack of experience is coming into play, and the inconsistency in the management of this team is not helping him any. I'm by no means, a Chriss apologist, but whatever happened to "these two guys will need time to develop"?? That whole premise has been thrown out the window, as of late.

These guys are barely into their 2nd season, and while it would be nice if they came in ready to contribute like some young players are, we ALL knew, from the moment they were drafted, that they BOTH were not NBA-ready, and were going to take a few years to develop. This should not come as a shock to anyone; yet apparently, it is.

IF we keep both, and IF by the end of NEXT season, they are still playing close to the level they are now, THEN I could understand all these posts about how slowly Chriss/Bender are coming along, but again, Chriss has played in 106 games. Bender has only played in 67.

And for a little bit of perspective, look at this link...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

Chriss actually matches up pretty darn favorably compared to others in that same draft class, so far. Everyone wants to compare him to Simmons; how about we compare him to those that were supposed to be more 'NBA Ready' than he, and NOT named 'Ben Simmons'

http://bkref.com/tiny/eMknO

Looks pretty darn good to me...comparatively...

It’s his regression from last year that has people frustrated. If he was even playing like he was last year there would be a lot less angst.


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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1998 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:42 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Great opportunity to get George Hill nearly for free. He is a good PG.
His contract is guaranteed only until next season ( he would replace Bledsoe's contract and position).

Monroe and a couple of second round picks for Hill.


I'm not sure he'd be very excited to go from the second worst team in the west to the third.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#1999 » by Bogyo » Sun Dec 3, 2017 5:57 pm

We don't need any more lousy veterans on this team - for this year! Ride it out as it is, let the young guys develop, get the highest possible draft pick(s). At least we'll have a much more clear picture who is worth keeping around, and in what role, and what are the areas they need to work on after this year.
If we add a George Hill type PG or a real starting caliber C on this roster we only win 5 more games, but lose 2-3 spots in the draft, and will have a much less clear idea wether Ulis and MJ are only third string PGs or out of the league PGs or 2nd stringers (with a bit of luck and more experience and better coaching). Same goes for Len's role, and possible contract offer next offseason. Same goes for Benders and Chrisses role - are they best suited as PF's or C's in the future? Starters or just bench guys? We'll have a fairly clear picture by year end with Triano's coahcing I believe.
It's not pretty, and even I don't really enjoy watching it, but this makes the most sense.
Then, after the ping-pong balls fall we can sign all the Rubios, Hills, Lins, Smarts, Bradleys of the world (if we get a legit C in the draft), or go after Boogie, Capella, DeAndre, Nurkic, Favors, Randle, O'Quinn, if we get a good PG somehow.
We will have 2-3 first rounders and 3-4 second rounders this year (that we can't put on the roster, and it makes no sense to have 3 draft and stash players), plus 1-2 first rounders next year, and the Miami 2021 unprotected, while Tyson and Dudley will be expiring contracts. We should have a competitive team next year! Don't mess up that chance by going after medicore vets this year to win 5 more games.
# waiting for the next chapter
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2000 » by NavLDO » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:07 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:I want a stretch 5, not a one dimensional guy like DeAndre. It would be different if he had a post game and was a legit 22/12 guy, but he's not.

Truthfully (and I'm prepared for the pitchforks) I'd rather sign Jah to a two year deal and keep Tyson around to mentor him.

I'm all down to start accelerating this rebuild by adding legit stars on fat deals, but not borderline guys like Jordan or injured plagued guys like Blake.


This isn't a 'pitchfork', per se, but why would you want to keep Chandler for 'mentoring'?? Because he did such a great job with Len?? Chandler is about Chandler; that's it. He's not mentoring anyone.

I understand your trepidation about DeAndre, but he IS a legit top 12 starter in the league, and not 'borderline' at all, IMO. Anyone who has led the league 5 years straight in TS% and FG% is not 'borderline'. I'd rather trade for DeAndre, and if we don't get a chance to get Ayton or Bamba (who will both be around 20YO at the Draft), bring in a young guy like Wendall Carter (DOB - 4/16/99...so he'll just have turned 19 at the Draft), who "...has range out to the three-point line and can shoot off the dribble ... Improved as a free throw shooter …Can put the ball on the floor and attack in a straight line."

Let DeAndre have a chance to 'mentor', because honestly, I do not believe Chandler has mentored jack$h!t since being here, with the exception of maybe the payroll lady.


Deandre led the league in FG% because he only attempts dunks, and was set up to succeed in that manner by playing with the best PG in basketball in terms of setting up others for those 5 years. He is a borderline offensive player who cannot hit a shot outside of 3 feet, despite being dominant inside of those 3 feet. He is not a top 12 player. Also, how would Deandre, who is the exact opposite player of everything you described in the young guy you want to pair him with, going to mentor said young guy when his game is a complete 180 of that?


I don't know, I guess the same way Lukas thought Chandler could mentor Jahlil Okafor?!?! Also, I guess, the same way everyone thought Chandler could mentor Len.

In the NBA, most players are required to play both sides of the court; Offense and Defense, as well as, Rebound. Typically, Centers guard other Centers, and the Paint in general, and are also expected to Rebound at a high-clip. Since DeAndre is/was borderline elite in that area (led the league for two years...no PG setting him up those stats, but I'm sure you can try to come up with another way to discount Jordan in that arena), and borderline elite shot-blocker (finished 2nd in the NBA in 3 seasons, and 3rd in another--again, no CP3 helping him there, either), and he's been in the top 10 in DRtg over the past 4 years, so yes, I would consider him a top 12 player at his position, even if he's regressed in a couple of areas, a bit, because he's ALSO improved in other areas you complained about, such as FT%, which he has steadily improved over the past 2 seasons to 48% last year, and 60% this season.

He's still 2nd in the NBA in TRB. He's better than Chandler in just about ever metric, OTHER than TOV, Assts and FT%, and let's face it, he's all but 7% below Tyson in that area, and negligible in the other areas.

http://bkref.com/tiny/tOR07

In actuality. I don't know why we don't just KEEP Monroe, draft a Center, move on...what is so wrong with Monroe that we can't treat him as our Starting Center??? He's oodles better than any other Center on our roster, or any Center we've had in like...20 years? IDK...somebody do the math...

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