Trades for Jon Boy

[DCintheD]

so we pretty much need to attach Ellenson and a 1st to Leuer for an expiring????... FINE WITH ME!

[zeebneeb]

Does Moose expire this year?

[rmfc]

Does Moose expire this year?

Don't want to see him with the Pistons..ever again.

[jakebernat]

What is the obsession with dumping leuer’s contract by any means necessary??? Gores is the one signing the checks, not us.

You all realize we can do nothing with his 10 million off the books, right? Literally, we can make 0 additional moves by subtracting his money from the books (other than avoiding the luxury tax).

So yeah, I’m not packaging our 1st rounder from last year along with an additional future 1st just to be able to say we saved a billionaire a few million.

[Kilo]

Jon is going to a second orthopedic specialist for a second opinion. His high ankle sprain isn't healing.

[zeebneeb]

What is the obsession with dumping leuer’s contract by any means necessary??? Gores is the one signing the checks, not us.

You all realize we can do nothing with his 10 million off the books, right? Literally, we can make 0 additional moves by subtracting his money from the books (other than avoiding the luxury tax).

So yeah, I’m not packaging our 1st rounder from last year along with an additional future 1st just to be able to say we saved a billionaire a few million.

The only reason I'm interested in this is trading him for an expiring for next year.

I got some ideas I just don't know how possible they are.

[DetroitSho]

What is the obsession with dumping leuer’s contract by any means necessary??? Gores is the one signing the checks, not us.

You all realize we can do nothing with his 10 million off the books, right? Literally, we can make 0 additional moves by subtracting his money from the books (other than avoiding the luxury tax).

So yeah, I’m not packaging our 1st rounder from last year along with an additional future 1st just to be able to say we saved a billionaire a few million.

People just automatically assume Gores won't pay the luxury tax and that's going to keep them re-signing Bradley, which I find that to be a bad assumption to make.

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[DetroitSho]

Jon is going to a second orthopedic specialist for a second opinion. His high ankle sprain isn't healing.

Not that I'm wishing injury on him, but what if they find that it's a break or something that ends his season? Could we be in line for a $10 million exception?

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[BIG BEN'S FRO]

If we actually do finish in the top 2-3 seeds, have a decent showing in the playoffs, and fans start to show up, I think we have been so desperate he might actually pay it.

[Billl]

I don't know if gores is 100% opposed to paying the tax for a year, but I'm pretty confident he doesn't want the payroll structured so the he's on the hook for it every year. If we're going to sign all our core guys, we need to get rid of some of the high priced bench warmers eventually. I really hope that if the choice is "pay tax for 1 year" vs "give up a draft pick", he would pay the tax for 1 year. Those draft picks are going to be super valuable in filling out the roster over the next 5 years or so.

[tmorgan]

My endorsement of Leuer, Ellenson, 2018 #1 for Favors is because:

1) We need to dump Leuer to keep our starters... not just Bradley, but SJ and Tobias the year after. 10 million of dead weight on the payroll hurts. At least Boban only has one more year, but Leuer has two.

2) Ellenson could definitely turn into something, but it's not happening yet. He's poor defensively, and despite his good handle, he's not fast. In the modern NBA, he's looking like a 5, and he'd be the kind of 5 that opposing bigs absolutely FEAST on. Not confident in his development as a starter, and not even totally sold on him as a good bench player. In other words, meh.

3) Our first is not looking particularly valuable this year. It's a very top heavy draft with about 6 excellent prospects and then not particularly deep. The best case scenario for a 20th-ish pick is someone extremely raw (that won't contribute much on their rookie deal) or clearly flawed (shooter only, defender only, etc.). Sure, we could unearth a gem, that's always a possibility, but this isn't a great draft to do it.

4) Favors will legit help this team this year. Our backup centers are horrible. Really horrible. I don't think there's much of a chance we'd resign him, and I get that that sucks, but it's the reality of playing four vets (second contract+) as starters, assuming we resign Bradley after the season to a deal at 20 mil+ a year.

I know it's not a perfect, swindle deal like those we used to get Reggie, Tobias, and Avery, and maybe there's another deal like that out there (I have GREAT confidence in Bower, actually), but this one seems realistic and useful. Utah likely isn't signing Favors, so the only cost to them is a hit to whatever slim chance they have this year and the remainder of Leuer's contract. For that, a late-ish 1st and a somewhat interesting prospect in Ellenson seems reasonable to me.

Heck, I'm going to post this on their board to see what they think.

[zeebneeb]

My endorsement of Leuer, Ellenson, 2018 #1 for Favors is because:

1) We need to dump Leuer to keep our starters... not just Bradley, but SJ and Tobias the year after. 10 million of dead weight on the payroll hurts. At least Boban only has one more year, but Leuer has two.

2) Ellenson could definitely turn into something, but it's not happening yet. He's poor defensively, and despite his good handle, he's not fast. In the modern NBA, he's looking like a 5, and he'd be the kind of 5 that opposing bigs absolutely FEAST on. Not confident in his development as a starter, and not even totally sold on him as a good bench player. In other words, meh.

3) Our first is not looking particularly valuable this year. It's a very top heavy draft with about 6 excellent prospects and then not particularly deep. The best case scenario for a 20th-ish pick is someone extremely raw (that won't contribute much on their rookie deal) or clearly flawed (shooter only, defender only, etc.). Sure, we could unearth a gem, that's always a possibility, but this isn't a great draft to do it.

4) Favors will legit help this team this year. Our backup centers are horrible. Really horrible. I don't think there's much of a chance we'd resign him, and I get that that sucks, but it's the reality of playing four vets (second contract+) as starters, assuming we resign Bradley after the season to a deal at 20 mil+ a year.

I know it's not a perfect, swindle deal like those we used to get Reggie, Tobias, and Avery, and maybe there's another deal like that out there (I have GREAT confidence in Bower, actually), but this one seems realistic and useful. Utah likely isn't signing Favors, so the only cost to them is a hit to whatever slim chance they have this year and the remainder of Leuer's contract. For that, a late-ish 1st and a somewhat interesting prospect in Ellenson seems reasonable to me.

Heck, I'm going to post this on their board to see what they think.

Ill respond with each point.

1.)I agree. Some trades have to be made and soon unless Gores is willing to pay a tax. It would be a big one. There is a reason I agree which ill address in point 2.

2.)Agreed 100%. As the season started and even in summer league I became entranced with Ellensons potential. I also was not sure how this team was going to perform. No one did. Huge changes and uncertainty made me hopeful with Henry. Now its obvious what the team is, and its potential. Andre has made a massive leap. Bradley is a HUGE addition. The new offense combined with all the shooters Stan picked up have transformed the team into the third best 3-point shooting team in the league. Harris has made a big jump. Everything is clicking and players are going to be entering their primes real soon. All of sudden the team doesn't have time to bring along Henry. This team can do special things soon, amd that means critical moves, and critical cap space is needed.

3.)Agreed. Don't give two **** about the next draft pick.

4.)Agreed to a point. Im of the mind I don't care so much as who it is that comes back, but that they fit, and the contract makes sense. I am a proponent of trying to get George in a similar deal(Johnson, Leuer, Boban, 2 1st's) to OKC and them making moves gets closer to reality every time they lose to the Orlando's of the league.

Make no mistake I like your deal and I'm down with it. I am just of the mind that when it becomes this obvious that the team as its currently constructed is DAMN CLOSE, you do whatever it takes to make them full beast-mode.

This is what Dumars did when he landed Rasheed.

Some may disagree but what I see is a team with great fit, great coaching, and all world talent in Andre Drummond. This team can either wait and hope Johnson becomes that 5th real deal starter, or either beef up the bench as you've suggested, or stick a monster if available in Johnson's spot.

[DocRI]

My endorsement of Leuer, Ellenson, 2018 #1 for Favors is because:

1) We need to dump Leuer to keep our starters... not just Bradley, but SJ and Tobias the year after. 10 million of dead weight on the payroll hurts. At least Boban only has one more year, but Leuer has two.

2) Ellenson could definitely turn into something, but it's not happening yet. He's poor defensively, and despite his good handle, he's not fast. In the modern NBA, he's looking like a 5, and he'd be the kind of 5 that opposing bigs absolutely FEAST on. Not confident in his development as a starter, and not even totally sold on him as a good bench player. In other words, meh.

3) Our first is not looking particularly valuable this year. It's a very top heavy draft with about 6 excellent prospects and then not particularly deep. The best case scenario for a 20th-ish pick is someone extremely raw (that won't contribute much on their rookie deal) or clearly flawed (shooter only, defender only, etc.). Sure, we could unearth a gem, that's always a possibility, but this isn't a great draft to do it.

4) Favors will legit help this team this year. Our backup centers are horrible. Really horrible. I don't think there's much of a chance we'd resign him, and I get that that sucks, but it's the reality of playing four vets (second contract+) as starters, assuming we resign Bradley after the season to a deal at 20 mil+ a year.

I know it's not a perfect, swindle deal like those we used to get Reggie, Tobias, and Avery, and maybe there's another deal like that out there (I have GREAT confidence in Bower, actually), but this one seems realistic and useful. Utah likely isn't signing Favors, so the only cost to them is a hit to whatever slim chance they have this year and the remainder of Leuer's contract. For that, a late-ish 1st and a somewhat interesting prospect in Ellenson seems reasonable to me.

Heck, I'm going to post this on their board to see what they think.

^ Don't know if you've done it yet, but fair warning — I posted the same deal without Ellenson on the T&T board, and it was not received well by Jazz fans. This was in a thread titled something like "Does Anyone Want Derrick Favors?", so as you can guess it was filled with a lot of low-ball offers. Still, the majority of Jazz fans who posted seemed pretty insistent that they'd get really good value for Favors despite his expiring contract.

[tmorgan]

Eh, they don't want to do it, but a couple folks thought the value was about right. I can live with that. It's hard to trade a guy that you thought would be great but got hurt and just doesn't fit with your star.

[ByeByeDre]

Eh, they don't want to do it, but a couple folks thought the value was about right. I can live with that. It's hard to trade a guy that you thought would be great but got hurt and just doesn't fit with your star.

T, that’s one of the better thought out trade ideas on this board. I just think it’s a tough sell getting a team to take on two extra years of Leuer after this one, and $20 million more. Plus, the reality is that Ellenson hasn’t shown much of anything, so another team might not view him as a plus player/prospect. Twelve months from now the trade makes more sense, just not now.

[Kilo]

Leuer has been shutdown for 2-4 weeks by the second specialist.