A Tech Guy with a Jumper - Spencer Dinwiddie Thread

[MrDollarBills]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

[kamaze]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

Because coming back from injury he shouldn't be forced to be the starting point guard; which he shouldn't be anyway Din Din's much better as a point guard. If the coaches feel they're better off with him starting after a few games sure but he lost the starting point guard spot while he was out imo.

[LKIRNets]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

not one reason I can think of. And we're watching how Dinwiddie gets exposed too much on that screen n' roll play.

[MrDollarBills]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

Because coming back from injury he shouldn't be forced to be the starting point guard; which he shouldn't be anyway Din Din's much better as a point guard. If the coaches feel they're better off with him starting after a few games sure but he lost the starting point guard spot while he was out imo.

i agree. he should play starting shooting guard. like he was supposed to before Lin got hurt. why we should deviate from the plan is baffling to me. Russell is not a PG, he's a 2 guard.

[MrDollarBills]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

not one reason I can think of. And we're watching how Dinwiddie gets exposed too much on that screen n' roll play.

not even that, but Russell is a 2. the very idea that the Nets should BENCH their top talent when we are 8-14 is a bit much.

[bws94]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

Because coming back from injury he shouldn't be forced to be the starting point guard; which he shouldn't be anyway Din Din's much better as a point guard. If the coaches feel they're better off with him starting after a few games sure but he lost the starting point guard spot while he was out imo.

Russell is the best offensive player on the team. He is the starting PG because Lin went down. But coming off the bench is wrong. Fine to come off the bench for a "warmup" game or two, where he'd have limited minutes. But, he's a starter on the team. Dinwiddie can start or not, the team doesn't really have that strong guy PG the bench they would have with Dinwiddie, however.

I said this in the last game thread. As great as Dinwiddie has been, there are times I see the team needing that go-to scorer that creates his own shot. Russell is that player and Lin is that player (though with Lin, maybe more of those buckets are drawing fouls and going to the line). I can see where we can use that now. Dinwiddie more goes for the 3 or creating for others, and at times drives in, but he's not quite comfortable yet creating and making a bunch of buckets when you absolutely need them like Russell or Lin. And yeah, you deal with some TOs with these guys, but that's a tradeoff you have to live with.

When Russell comes back, it's good to play a lot of Din and Russell together, but it doesn't have to be that Din starts. He can come off of the bench earlier, like say 6 minutes into the game or so. Or, he can start. But Din has earned around 26 minutes per game IMO, at minimum.

[Ror1997]

Russell coming off the bench for the first 2-3 games back isnt out of the question. He'll definitely be on a minutes restriction. But long term, Russell is a starter, no doubt.

[Prokorov]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

Because coming back from injury he shouldn't be forced to be the starting point guard; which he shouldn't be anyway Din Din's much better as a point guard. If the coaches feel they're better off with him starting after a few games sure but he lost the starting point guard spot while he was out imo.

Russell is the best offensive player on the team. He is the starting PG because Lin went down. But coming off the bench is wrong. Fine to come off the bench for a "warmup" game or two, where he'd have limited minutes. But, he's a starter on the team. Dinwiddie can start or not, the team doesn't really have that strong guy PG the bench they would have with Dinwiddie, however.

I said this in the last game thread. As great as Dinwiddie has been, there are times I see the team needing that go-to scorer that creates his own shot. Russell is that player and Lin is that player (though with Lin, maybe more of those buckets are drawing fouls and going to the line). I can see where we can use that now. Dinwiddie more goes for the 3 or creating for others, and at times drives in, but he's not quite comfortable yet creating and making a bunch of buckets when you absolutely need them like Russell or Lin. And yeah, you deal with some TOs with these guys, but that's a tradeoff you have to live with.

When Russell comes back, it's good to play a lot of Din and Russell together, but it doesn't have to be that Din starts. He can come off of the bench earlier, like say 6 minutes into the game or so. Or, he can start. But Din has earned around 26 minutes per game IMO, at minimum.

I agree.... i think its clear what should happen when DLO is back:

Dinwiddie - Russell - Carroll - RHJ - Booker

Then bring in Allen for eithe rrussell or dinwidde. stagger DLO and dinwwidde until crunch time when you close with them together.

[Prokorov]

Dinwiddie has been playing great ball. He looks like a George Hill clone out there. night and day from last year... my big criticism of him mid season last year was he constantly passed up open threes. now he has the confidence to launch from mid court.

We need to keep this guy long term. i know it will ruffle feathers with the lin crowd but i think best thing for the nets would be if Lin opted out and we gave dinwiddie lins money. like 4/48.

Dinwiddie is giving us like 15/8 as a starter and shooting 39% from three. basically what we'd hope lin would have given us

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Because coming back from injury he shouldn't be forced to be the starting point guard; which he shouldn't be anyway Din Din's much better as a point guard. If the coaches feel they're better off with him starting after a few games sure but he lost the starting point guard spot while he was out imo.

Russell is the best offensive player on the team. He is the starting PG because Lin went down. But coming off the bench is wrong. Fine to come off the bench for a "warmup" game or two, where he'd have limited minutes. But, he's a starter on the team. Dinwiddie can start or not, the team doesn't really have that strong guy PG the bench they would have with Dinwiddie, however.

I said this in the last game thread. As great as Dinwiddie has been, there are times I see the team needing that go-to scorer that creates his own shot. Russell is that player and Lin is that player (though with Lin, maybe more of those buckets are drawing fouls and going to the line). I can see where we can use that now. Dinwiddie more goes for the 3 or creating for others, and at times drives in, but he's not quite comfortable yet creating and making a bunch of buckets when you absolutely need them like Russell or Lin. And yeah, you deal with some TOs with these guys, but that's a tradeoff you have to live with.

When Russell comes back, it's good to play a lot of Din and Russell together, but it doesn't have to be that Din starts. He can come off of the bench earlier, like say 6 minutes into the game or so. Or, he can start. But Din has earned around 26 minutes per game IMO, at minimum.

I agree.... i think its clear what should happen when DLO is back:

Dinwiddie - Russell - Carroll - RHJ - Booker

Then bring in Allen for eithe rrussell or dinwidde. stagger DLO and dinwwidde until crunch time when you close with them together.

I agree. But I don’t think you even have to stagger them that much. Caris has proved he can handle back up point duties for parts of the game. I’m a big fan of the LeVert-Crabbe-Harris lineup.

[MrDollarBills]

Because coming back from injury he shouldn't be forced to be the starting point guard; which he shouldn't be anyway Din Din's much better as a point guard. If the coaches feel they're better off with him starting after a few games sure but he lost the starting point guard spot while he was out imo.

Russell is the best offensive player on the team. He is the starting PG because Lin went down. But coming off the bench is wrong. Fine to come off the bench for a "warmup" game or two, where he'd have limited minutes. But, he's a starter on the team. Dinwiddie can start or not, the team doesn't really have that strong guy PG the bench they would have with Dinwiddie, however.

I said this in the last game thread. As great as Dinwiddie has been, there are times I see the team needing that go-to scorer that creates his own shot. Russell is that player and Lin is that player (though with Lin, maybe more of those buckets are drawing fouls and going to the line). I can see where we can use that now. Dinwiddie more goes for the 3 or creating for others, and at times drives in, but he's not quite comfortable yet creating and making a bunch of buckets when you absolutely need them like Russell or Lin. And yeah, you deal with some TOs with these guys, but that's a tradeoff you have to live with.

When Russell comes back, it's good to play a lot of Din and Russell together, but it doesn't have to be that Din starts. He can come off of the bench earlier, like say 6 minutes into the game or so. Or, he can start. But Din has earned around 26 minutes per game IMO, at minimum.

I agree.... i think its clear what should happen when DLO is back:

Dinwiddie - Russell - Carroll - RHJ - Booker

Then bring in Allen for eithe rrussell or dinwidde. stagger DLO and dinwwidde until crunch time when you close with them together.

Yeah. You're not going to have your team's best scoring option coming off the bench.

[bws94]

Dinwiddie has been playing great ball. He looks like a George Hill clone out there. night and day from last year... my big criticism of him mid season last year was he constantly passed up open threes. now he has the confidence to launch from mid court.

We need to keep this guy long term. i know it will ruffle feathers with the lin crowd but i think best thing for the nets would be if Lin opted out and we gave dinwiddie lins money. like 4/48.

Dinwiddie is giving us like 15/8 as a starter and shooting 39% from three. basically what we'd hope lin would have given us

I like Dinwiddie but Lin gives you that creater/scorer that I don't see from Dinwiddie. Not yet. So I disagree.

[Trader_Joe]

Dinwiddie has been playing great ball. He looks like a George Hill clone out there. night and day from last year... my big criticism of him mid season last year was he constantly passed up open threes. now he has the confidence to launch from mid court.

We need to keep this guy long term. i know it will ruffle feathers with the lin crowd but i think best thing for the nets would be if Lin opted out and we gave dinwiddie lins money. like 4/48.

Dinwiddie is giving us like 15/8 as a starter and shooting 39% from three. basically what we'd hope lin would have given us

Can't see Lin opting out. Also Dinwiddie has a team option next year for the minimum. It's our last summer of cap space for some time so I think we take advantage of that and look to pay him the following summer.

If Lin opts on and is healthy next year, I'd like to see him in a sixth man role like he did in Charlotte.

Dinwiddie l Lin
Russell l LeVert
Crabbe
RHJ
Allen l Zeller l Mozzy
+
Toronto #1
2nds
Cap space

Sell high on DMC and Harris

[313 Professor]

I said this in the last game thread. As great as Dinwiddie has been, there are times I see the team needing that go-to scorer that creates his own shot. Russell is that player and Lin is that player (though with Lin, maybe more of those buckets are drawing fouls and going to the line). I can see where we can use that now. Dinwiddie more goes for the 3 or creating for others, and at times drives in, but he's not quite comfortable yet creating and making a bunch of buckets when you absolutely need them like Russell or Lin. And yeah, you deal with some TOs with these guys, but that's a tradeoff you have to live with.

When Russell comes back, it's good to play a lot of Din and Russell together, but it doesn't have to be that Din starts. He can come off of the bench earlier, like say 6 minutes into the game or so. Or, he can start. But Din has earned around 26 minutes per game IMO, at minimum.

I generally agree, but I think you're underrating the negative impact of turnovers and shot volume a little bit. Russell's turnovers and shot volume spread out over multiple possessions has lead to him being a net negative player so far in his career. There are only a few select situations where you need a player to go get a bucket:

Shot clock running down
4th quarter play breaks down
Closing games vs intense defense

Other than in those situations you don't really need an inefficient scorer looking to get his. Dlo can improve but he's farrrrrr from Kyrie Irving. He can go get a bucket but he is not elite at it or reliable. Too many decisions to look to score and those turnovers "you have to live with" when a pass was the better basketball play end up being L's you have to live with.

I say that to say Dinwiddie is a Top 8 PG right now in RPM, right in between All-Stars Kyrie Irving and Kemba Walker. With his low turnover rate, tendency to make the right basketball play 90% of the time, and ability to hit the 3, I don't know how Kenny can not start him at PG. Those traits are far more valuable than what Russell provides..... until the 4th quarter where I agree you have to have both out there.

[tonman]

I said this in the last game thread. As great as Dinwiddie has been, there are times I see the team needing that go-to scorer that creates his own shot. Russell is that player and Lin is that player (though with Lin, maybe more of those buckets are drawing fouls and going to the line). I can see where we can use that now. Dinwiddie more goes for the 3 or creating for others, and at times drives in, but he's not quite comfortable yet creating and making a bunch of buckets when you absolutely need them like Russell or Lin. And yeah, you deal with some TOs with these guys, but that's a tradeoff you have to live with.

When Russell comes back, it's good to play a lot of Din and Russell together, but it doesn't have to be that Din starts. He can come off of the bench earlier, like say 6 minutes into the game or so. Or, he can start. But Din has earned around 26 minutes per game IMO, at minimum.

I generally agree, but I think you're underrating the negative impact of turnovers and shot volume a little bit. Russell's turnovers and shot volume spread out over multiple possessions has lead to him being a net negative player so far in his career. There are only a few select situations where you need a player to go get a bucket:

Shot clock running down
4th quarter play breaks down
Closing games vs intense defense

Other than in those situations you don't really need an inefficient scorer looking to get his. Dlo can improve but he's farrrrrr from Kyrie Irving. He can go get a bucket but he is not elite at it or reliable. Too many decisions to look to score and those turnovers "you have to live with" when a pass was the better basketball play end up being L's you have to live with.

I say that to say Dinwiddie is a Top 8 PG right now in RPM, right in between All-Stars Kyrie Irving and Kemba Walker. With his low turnover rate, tendency to make the right basketball play 90% of the time, and ability to hit the 3, I don't know how Kenny can not start him at PG. Those traits are far more valuable than what Russell provides..... until the 4th quarter where I agree you have to have both out there.

The problem is that without dlo or lin, the nets are limited. When you have players who can breakdown the defense you make the other players job easier. Yes making the right pass is important but dinwiddie does not have players who command attention around him. What if the defense starts to force the ball out of dinwiddies hands?

Dinwiddie may be shooting 39% from three but he is still shooting less than 40% overall. Lets see how he does when teams start paying attention to him.

The good thing is hes playing in a system offense and that helps him not try more than he should.

And this same system offense that helps din actually holds back dlo and lin though we hope in positive ways like making them play more in control. If din turns into a george hill then great. But hill has always played on teams with elite talent. Havent kept up with hill so not sure if hes got injuries but hes not playing as much with the kings who is lacking that elite talent.

[oldjim]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

When Lin option out next year, i hope Din is the starter pg and Russell come off the bench as a 6th man, i think this is his best position.

Russell has good offense skill but bad defense , just like Kilpatrick, a standard 6th man player.

[MrDollarBills]

yes, a player who averages 21ppg 5rpg 5apg should come off of the bench and is a standard 6th man player.

let that one sink in.

[Curns13]

yes, a player who averages 21ppg 5rpg 5apg should come off of the bench and is a standard 6th man player.

let that one sink in.

My research shows that there are only 30 teams without a 20, 5 and 5 6th man. Its just so common these days.

[Prokorov]

Dinwiddie has been playing great ball. He looks like a George Hill clone out there. night and day from last year... my big criticism of him mid season last year was he constantly passed up open threes. now he has the confidence to launch from mid court.

We need to keep this guy long term. i know it will ruffle feathers with the lin crowd but i think best thing for the nets would be if Lin opted out and we gave dinwiddie lins money. like 4/48.

Dinwiddie is giving us like 15/8 as a starter and shooting 39% from three. basically what we'd hope lin would have given us

Can't see Lin opting out. Also Dinwiddie has a team option next year for the minimum. It's our last summer of cap space for some time so I think we take advantage of that and look to pay him the following summer.

If Lin opts on and is healthy next year, I'd like to see him in a sixth man role like he did in Charlotte.

Dinwiddie l Lin
Russell l LeVert
Crabbe
RHJ
Allen l Zeller l Mozzy
+
Toronto #1
2nds
Cap space

Sell high on DMC and Harris

you are right its a team option not a player option.

if Lin opts in thats 15M in cap space if we renounce booker and harris.

do you extend russell and/or RHJ or let them become RFAs?

[kamaze]

Why would Russell come off the bench?

When Lin option out next year, i hope Din is the starter pg and Russell come off the bench as a 6th man, i think this is his best position.

Russell has good offense skill but bad defense , just like Kilpatrick, a standard 6th man player.

I'm leaning this way too AC shows more effort on defense and has improved in that area. He's timid about taking over, a couple of weeks back he was benched for not being aggressive enough and reacted by putting up more shots (which he makes at a higher clip). I'd rather him be the starting sg they did give him that huge contract put him in the best position to play up to it.

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch this isn't a who's better debate. I like the ball movement, low turnover, assist on nearly every shot style over isolation ball. DLo would still close games it's not an insult to come off the bench.