ImageImageImage

Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

ImNotMcDiSwear
General Manager
Posts: 8,286
And1: 6,409
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2001 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:13 pm

NavLDO wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
This isn't a 'pitchfork', per se, but why would you want to keep Chandler for 'mentoring'?? Because he did such a great job with Len?? Chandler is about Chandler; that's it. He's not mentoring anyone.

I understand your trepidation about DeAndre, but he IS a legit top 12 starter in the league, and not 'borderline' at all, IMO. Anyone who has led the league 5 years straight in TS% and FG% is not 'borderline'. I'd rather trade for DeAndre, and if we don't get a chance to get Ayton or Bamba (who will both be around 20YO at the Draft), bring in a young guy like Wendall Carter (DOB - 4/16/99...so he'll just have turned 19 at the Draft), who "...has range out to the three-point line and can shoot off the dribble ... Improved as a free throw shooter …Can put the ball on the floor and attack in a straight line."

Let DeAndre have a chance to 'mentor', because honestly, I do not believe Chandler has mentored jack$h!t since being here, with the exception of maybe the payroll lady.


Deandre led the league in FG% because he only attempts dunks, and was set up to succeed in that manner by playing with the best PG in basketball in terms of setting up others for those 5 years. He is a borderline offensive player who cannot hit a shot outside of 3 feet, despite being dominant inside of those 3 feet. He is not a top 12 player. Also, how would Deandre, who is the exact opposite player of everything you described in the young guy you want to pair him with, going to mentor said young guy when his game is a complete 180 of that?


I don't know, I guess the same way Lukas thought Chandler could mentor Jahlil Okafor?!?! Also, I guess, the same way everyone thought Chandler could mentor Len.

In the NBA, most players are required to play both sides of the court; Offense and Defense, as well as, Rebound. Typically, Centers guard other Centers, and the Paint in general, and are also expected to Rebound at a high-clip. Since DeAndre is/was borderline elite in that area (led the league for two years...no PG setting him up those stats, but I'm sure you can try to come up with another way to discount Jordan in that arena), and borderline elite shot-blocker (finished 2nd in the NBA in 3 seasons, and 3rd in another--again, no CP3 helping him there, either), and he's been in the top 10 in DRtg over the past 4 years, so yes, I would consider him a top 12 player at his position, even if he's regressed in a couple of areas, a bit, because he's ALSO improved in other areas you complained about, such as FT%, which he has steadily improved over the past 2 seasons to 48% last year, and 60% this season.

He's still 2nd in the NBA in TRB. He's better than Chandler in just about ever metric, OTHER than TOV, Assts and FT%, and let's face it, he's all but 7% below Tyson in that area, and negligible in the other areas.

http://bkref.com/tiny/tOR07

In actuality. I don't know why we don't just KEEP Monroe, draft a Center, move on...what is so wrong with Monroe that we can't treat him as our Starting Center??? He's oodles better than any other Center on our roster, or any Center we've had in like...20 years? IDK...somebody do the math...


I prefer Len to Monroe. I think I prefer Chandler to Monroe as well.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 97,960
And1: 60,906
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2002 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:54 pm

Saberestar wrote:Around 25 games into the season and it looks like Donovan Mitchell is probably the best player in this year's rookie class (other than Simmons who is in his second professional year).

Mitchell was selected at #13.

Is he a worse player/prospect than Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox or Isaac? No, he is not.

Another example why I do not even care about tanking, ping pong balls and all of that.

Play the right way, make your team the best that you can and try to win. It is simple.


No he's not. He may have scored 40 and may be on his way to becoming the best, but so far Tatum, Kuzma and possibly Collins have been better. Anunoby has been really good too, especially as of late, and is shooting really well also.

Mitchell's mostly just a shooter shooting 40.2%, though he is improving. I've been following the rookies closely. Per game stats and advanced stats.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats?rookies=

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2018/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/points/All/desc/1/Regular_Season?rookies=
When asked how Fascism starts, Bertrand Russell once said:
"First, they fascinate the fools. Then, they muzzle the intelligent."
User avatar
sunsbum
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,537
And1: 5,390
Joined: May 16, 2007
Location: Portland
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2003 » by sunsbum » Sun Dec 3, 2017 8:45 pm

Booker needs to start getting superstar calls. Once that happens I think he can move up to that 25-28ppg range. They were real physical and handsy with him the whole Boston game..too much
"Mannnnn I’m like the guy that pissed this whole board off saying literally all year no Mikal, no Mikal in the KD trade."
User avatar
ShawnBronald
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,955
And1: 365
Joined: Feb 16, 2009

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2004 » by ShawnBronald » Sun Dec 3, 2017 9:12 pm

sunsbum wrote:Booker needs to start getting superstar calls. Once that happens I think he can move up to that 25-28ppg range. They were real physical and handsy with him the whole Boston game..too much


It doesn't matter how big of a Superstar you are, you just don't get true "Superstar calls" when you play for the Phoenix Suns.
DirtyDez
Suns Forum College Scout
Posts: 17,162
And1: 6,895
Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Location: the Arizona desert

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2005 » by DirtyDez » Sun Dec 3, 2017 9:29 pm

ShawnBronald wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Booker needs to start getting superstar calls. Once that happens I think he can move up to that 25-28ppg range. They were real physical and handsy with him the whole Boston game..too much


It doesn't matter how big of a Superstar you are, you just don't get true "Superstar calls" when you play for the Phoenix Suns.


Except Barkley in game 7 vs Seattle.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
jcsunsfan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,477
And1: 4,829
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2006 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:21 pm

sunskerr wrote:Yeah we need to start consolidating assets. No reason to start wasting Booker and Warren's years. It's nice that we have Monroe/Len coming off the books. Draft just 1 rookie and maybe (big maybe) stash an overseas guy. Go through the roster and see who we can trade in package deals for a player(s) who fits. Ex maybe one of Bender/Chriss + picks for whoever helps the roster. Then a good free agent signing and go for the playoffs.



But we have to choose the right ones. OKC thought they had to consolidate assets and traded Harden.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,160
And1: 24,504
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2007 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:44 pm

NavLDO wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
1UPZ wrote:

You can't convert fat to muscle.

Muscle is muscle. Fat is under the skin.


He put on weight, looks more fat and water, but has trimmed down since, playing and training everyday does that.

But if he wants to get muscular, that takes longer...



Honestly though... Chriss's problem is not body.... but lack of IQ and how to use his body (legs) when defending... he uses his arms to play defense and not his lower body, which is how defense is played primarily....

What he's saying is he's put on weight (20lbs) which I can only assume is inclusive of fat. So I'm guessing he put on muscle but also put on fat as part of the process. Now he has to get rid of that excess fat. Totally agree with you though regarding his real problems on the court. Dudley at 32 with zero athleticism but great bball IQ often outplays Chriss which shouldn't happen.


Why shouldn't a 32YO Vet outplay a 20YO with far less experience than most 20YOs? Lebron's 34 and he outplay's darn near everyone.

The rest isn't aimed at you, lilfishi...just in general...

And who is coaching him into a better player/defender? I'm not saying no one is, but this is where his lack of experience is coming into play, and the inconsistency in the management of this team is not helping him any. I'm by no means, a Chriss apologist, but whatever happened to "these two guys will need time to develop"?? That whole premise has been thrown out the window, as of late.

These guys are barely into their 2nd season, and while it would be nice if they came in ready to contribute like some young players are, we ALL knew, from the moment they were drafted, that they BOTH were not NBA-ready, and were going to take a few years to develop. This should not come as a shock to anyone; yet apparently, it is.

IF we keep both, and IF by the end of NEXT season, they are still playing close to the level they are now, THEN I could understand all these posts about how slowly Chriss/Bender are coming along, but again, Chriss has played in 106 games. Bender has only played in 67.

And for a little bit of perspective, look at this link...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

Chriss actually matches up pretty darn favorably compared to others in that same draft class, so far. Everyone wants to compare him to Simmons; how about we compare him to those that were supposed to be more 'NBA Ready' than he, and NOT named 'Ben Simmons'

http://bkref.com/tiny/eMknO

Looks pretty darn good to me...comparatively...

I'm not talking about ANY 32yo :roll: unless you put Dudley on the same pedestal as Lebron since they are both in their 30's. I know you don't but obviously I wasn't talking about any 30yo

I'm specifically talking about Dudley. A guy who basically put on weight (or got lazy whatever) to play a position he really shouldn't have an ybusiness physically playing at but because he has that high bbIQ he still gets minutes and can get away with it. I mean, the guy was brought in basically for veteran leadership and spot minutes, not much more. For all the skills and athleticism Chriss has, he should be outplaying Dudley even at this stage in Dudley's career. If we're talking about Chriss's rookie season; fine I expect a savvy vet to do enough to outplay him but in this second season, I expect improvement.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 22,279
And1: 16,929
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2008 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:46 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
sunskerr wrote:Yeah we need to start consolidating assets. No reason to start wasting Booker and Warren's years. It's nice that we have Monroe/Len coming off the books. Draft just 1 rookie and maybe (big maybe) stash an overseas guy. Go through the roster and see who we can trade in package deals for a player(s) who fits. Ex maybe one of Bender/Chriss + picks for whoever helps the roster. Then a good free agent signing and go for the playoffs.



But we have to choose the right ones. OKC thought they had to consolidate assets and traded Harden.

My untouchables are Booker, TJ and Jackson.

I would love to have on the roster next season Ulis and Big Sauce too, both are great teammates and can play a bench role on the team for years to come.
They can give an identity to our bench unit.

I would like Dudley, as a veteran presence/future assistant coach, on the roster too.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,160
And1: 24,504
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2009 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:55 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Great opportunity to get George Hill nearly for free. He is a good PG.
His contract is guaranteed only until next season ( he would replace Bledsoe's contract and position).

Monroe and a couple of second round picks for Hill.


I'm not sure he'd be very excited to go from the second worst team in the west to the third.

How much of his frustration is related to losses and how much of it is due to playing fewer minutes (25.6mpg vs 26.1mpg) than Fox who himself has not been that impressive. I'm sure it's a combination of both but I'd like to know since he'd clearly be playing more minutes with us and he'd be playing with better talent.
ImNotMcDiSwear
General Manager
Posts: 8,286
And1: 6,409
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2010 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:08 pm

Saberestar wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
sunskerr wrote:Yeah we need to start consolidating assets. No reason to start wasting Booker and Warren's years. It's nice that we have Monroe/Len coming off the books. Draft just 1 rookie and maybe (big maybe) stash an overseas guy. Go through the roster and see who we can trade in package deals for a player(s) who fits. Ex maybe one of Bender/Chriss + picks for whoever helps the roster. Then a good free agent signing and go for the playoffs.



But we have to choose the right ones. OKC thought they had to consolidate assets and traded Harden.

My untouchables are Booker, TJ and Jackson.

I would love to have on the roster next season Ulis and Big Sauce too, both are great teammates and can play a bench role on the team for years to come.
They can give an identity to our bench unit.

I would like Dudley, as a veteran presence/future assistant coach, on the roster too.


Wow. I have Bender third behind JJ. TJ and Quese aren't that far apart in my view, because I do think Chriss has a higher ceiling -- he just has a lot more before him in order to reach it.

I probably value our '18 1st between JJ and Bender - so, our third most valuable asset.

All of that will change tomorrow. Which is part of the reason why I'm not really interested in dealing any of these players.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 22,279
And1: 16,929
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2011 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:38 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Great opportunity to get George Hill nearly for free. He is a good PG.
His contract is guaranteed only until next season ( he would replace Bledsoe's contract and position).

Monroe and a couple of second round picks for Hill.


I'm not sure he'd be very excited to go from the second worst team in the west to the third.

How much of his frustration is related to losses and how much of it is due to playing fewer minutes (25.6mpg vs 26.1mpg) than Fox who himself has not been that impressive. I'm sure it's a combination of both but I'd like to know since he'd clearly be playing more minutes with us and he'd be playing with better talent.

It looks like his fustration is more related to minutes per game. He just played 18 minutes in his last game.

According to someone familiar with the conversation, Joerger recently sat down with Randolph and fellow free-agent signee George Hill and told the two vets that he might siphon off some of their minutes and funnel them to younger players. (When I asked the same person how that went over, the reply was “How do you think it went over?” That’s the PG version of the account.)

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/11/22/16687986/nba-deaaron-fox-sacramento-kings
jcsunsfan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,477
And1: 4,829
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2012 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Dec 4, 2017 12:20 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Great opportunity to get George Hill nearly for free. He is a good PG.
His contract is guaranteed only until next season ( he would replace Bledsoe's contract and position).

Monroe and a couple of second round picks for Hill.


I'm not sure he'd be very excited to go from the second worst team in the west to the third.

How much of his frustration is related to losses and how much of it is due to playing fewer minutes (25.6mpg vs 26.1mpg) than Fox who himself has not been that impressive. I'm sure it's a combination of both but I'd like to know since he'd clearly be playing more minutes with us and he'd be playing with better talent.


What is this stuff about players "deserve to be on a winning team"? They deserve no such thing. They deserve to be loyal to the team they are playing for and put out effort every moment. They are privileged to earn millions of dollars playing a game.

Good grief. Is this a millennial thing?
User avatar
LukasBMW
Suns Forum SlamDRUNK Contributor
Posts: 4,827
And1: 4,291
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Location: Phoenix AZ & San Diego CA
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2013 » by LukasBMW » Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:23 am

LOL. George Hill ain't even that good. Where is he gonna go to win? All the top teams already have superstar point guards.

Curry/Paul/Lillard/Teague/Parker/Holiday/Westbrook & Irving/IT/Lowrey/Jackson/Fultz/Bledsoe/Wall

Indiana and Denver might be the only playoff teams that could start him. Maybe.
Image
User avatar
LukasBMW
Suns Forum SlamDRUNK Contributor
Posts: 4,827
And1: 4,291
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Location: Phoenix AZ & San Diego CA
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2014 » by LukasBMW » Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:24 am

1. Tank
2. Get a top 5 pick
3. Draft a center @ 1-5
4. Hope Miami picks 8-13
5. Draft a PG at 8-13

6.Try to get an asset out of Monroe/Chandler without messing up our cap.

/Thread for rest of season
Image
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,160
And1: 24,504
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2015 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:43 am

LukasBMW wrote:1. Tank
2. Get a top 5 pick
3. Draft a center @ 1-5
4. Hope Miami picks 8-13
5. Draft a PG at 8-13

6.Try to get an asset out of Monroe/Chandler without messing up our cap.

/Thread for rest of season

2019
1. Tank
2. Get a top 5 pick
3. Draft a (insert position) @ 1-5

/Thread for the rest of the season

2024
1. Tank
2. Get a top 5 pick
3. Draft a (insert position) @ 1-5

/Thread for the rest of the season

2028
1. Tank
2. Get a top 5 pick
3. Draft a (insert position) @ 1-5

/Thread for the rest of the season
User avatar
Kerrsed
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 29,876
And1: 16,578
Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Location: Land of the Internet Memes
Contact:
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3 

Post#2016 » by Kerrsed » Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:50 am

Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
Image

Return to Phoenix Suns