2017-18 OFF-SEASON

Quake Griffin · Post #281 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 8:22 am

I can’t see a reason why he’d accept a trade to SF. If Panik’s involved, they’re losing a top 2B to add you. You aren’t purely supplementing the major league roster at that point. It’s not like Posey is still hitting 20-25 HRs.

Add to that, I can’t see the longevity play because of their farm system and questions about Mad Bum.

I’m not TOO worried about him going there:

1) Shouldn’t wanna go there.
2) Not beating us for the division even if you add him.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Quake Griffin · Post #282 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 2:32 pm

Neddy wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:We may have undercut his value by sitting him in the playoffs. Theory being, “If he’s so good, why’d you bench him?” It’s not like Barnes is Posey level.

My interest here is simply to get something over nothing.

Why? Because I think Yasmani would take the QO if we offered it, cash in on the $17 million payday, and bet on himself to get a 4-5 year contract going into his age 31 season that would close his career.

I don’t think he can yield a lot on his own.
What about in a package?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

yes we did... we should have played Yaz a few more games, Barnes hit below the Mendoza line for the entire WS, and Yaz only got 3 at bats. he should have started a game or two during the WS. it was the World Series for god's sake. who knows if Yaz would have had a great series and we didn't go to the game 7? or even if Yaz would go on to suck equal or even worse as a backup catcher with one or two starts in a 6 to 7 game series, he would at least have his name on the lineup card of the WS. you never know if he could even ever comeback... and that goes for any player.

It's true...he didn't light up the Cubs series either.

I was left with more questions about who Barnes as is a player than not.
But then again, it was the postseason and he was facing good pitching. Only so many players are gonna hit well in October and you have to do the rest w/ spit and glue.
#ReasonsWhyIDontCallHittersChokers

Yaz had that baby. I'm sure that was easily the most confusing time of his life. Hurt by being benched. Extreme joy bringing in first child. He was with his wife for the birth IIRC.

Ranma · Post #283 » by **Ranma** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 3:47 pm

Read on Twitter

Edit: Added latest tweet about salary.

Ranma · Post #284 » by **Ranma** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 3:59 pm

Read on Twitter

Ranma · Post #285 » by **Ranma** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 5:26 pm

It says something that the Dodgers are the 3rd team in the running in the Stanton sweepstakes despite not even trying hard. If Stanton truly wants to be a Dodger, he better not panic and hold out as the Marlins are not doing a convincing job of fooling anyone that they won't eventually trade him to Los Angeles when their backs are against the wall. For crying out loud, Miami has dropped out of the Ohtani pursuit because Jeter's organization can't afford the cost despite the tremendous savings. To be fair, the Marlins know they were never given serious consideration, but it points to the situation that they have put themselves in.

Jeter is cutting cost at every and any opportunity, so eventually unloading Stanton's contract is a priority even if it means eating a big portion of it. Of course, he's trying to minimize that, which is exactly why he's pushing the urgency in getting a deal done with the Giants or Cardinals because they are willing to pay a significant majority of the money remaining on Stanton's deal.

Normally, teams would draw out the process more in order to get the most value back in terms of player assets. Stanton, on the other hand, is priced to move because his price tag can only depreciate the longer things go on with the no-trade clause and as teams remove themselves from the running as they pursue other options in free agency and/or trades.

Read on Twitter

Ranma · Post #286 » by **Ranma** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 6:49 pm

Read on Twitter

Ranma · Post #287 » by **Ranma** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 10:50 pm

Read on Twitter

Ranma · Post #288 » by **Ranma** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 4:40 am

Read on Twitter

Jon Heyman, FanRagSports.com (12/2/17)

Stanton by rights could wait to see whether his presumably preferred hometown Dodgers – who are at least monitoring the recent proceedings with keen interest – could possibly make a deal with the Marlins.

“The Dodgers are his first choice,” one other person told FanRag, and they are not disinterested, either. But while the Dodgers would like to add Stanton, with their current tax situation (they have pared their payroll but are still about $50 million over the threshold), a preference not to do very long deals for anyone, and no obvious need in the outfield, it’s seen as unlikely that they’d make an offer to Miami that would be competitive with the offers of the Giants and Cardinals.

Stanton’s perceived keen interest in going to the Dodgers and L.A.’s own preference not to go long with contracts — even for great players — could possibly lead them also to explore the possibility of massaging his contract in some way (rules disallow players from decreasing their contracts without some commensurate “benefit,” but theoretically it’s possible more opt-outs could be added, for instance). The Dodgers, who have won five straight division titles (the Giants had a World Series win in there, though), are said not necessarily to be worried about the Giants acquiring Stanton and his contract, but rather interested in importing a star they like – if they can make it palatable for them.

Skepticism Remains That Stanton Would Go to Cardinals

Jon Heyman, FanRagSports.com (12/2/17)

The Dodgers have spent a good portion of their time on the two biggest stars available – Stanton and two-way Japanese League star Shohei Ohtani – and they remain interested in Stanton, though the Marlins’ megastar will have to weigh whether it’s worth waiting to see whether there’s a realistic chance for his hometown team to work out a deal with the Marlins that works for both teams or accept the idea he’ll have to decide between the Giants, Cardinals or possibly some other team.

The Dodgers have some big hurdles in any Stanton pursuit, including the fact they were $50 million over the luxury tax threshold, have done a nice job paring about $50 million over the last year and hoped to continue to pare, if possible, and have to plan for future concerns considering the inevitability that Corey Seager and Cody Bellinger will have sharply escalating salaries in coming years. Plus, the Dodgers’ need for a big bat in the outfield isn’t acute, like the Cardinals or certainly the Giants.

Stanton Present at Meetings with Giants and Cardinals

Ranma · Post #289 » by **Ranma** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:10 pm

Read on Twitter

Ranma · Post #290 » by **Ranma** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:12 pm

Read on Twitter

Ranma · Post #291 » by **Ranma** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:51 pm

Read on Twitter

Neddy · Post #292 » by **Neddy** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 4:17 am

Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:well, let's start from Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale. their pursuit of 1 million dollars between them for 3 years in 1966 ended up paying them about a quarter million combined annually. it took getting to 1980 to find Nolan Ryan becoming the first ever 1 million dollar per year man. it took nearly 15 years to go from Sandy Koufax's $125,000 salary to Ryan's million, then it took another dozen years to get to Bobby bonilla's 5 million. then it took 5 years for Albert Belle and his 10 million per. it took Alex Rodriguez just 4 years to double that, then push 30 million by 2009. Clay and Zack are 34 million-ish per year now in 2017 and neither will be the top 5 highest paid players in the league in 2 years. I can totally see the best players in the league, 4 years out from the great flood gate of 2019, which will be 2023, 6 years from now, the top pay will be around 40+, if not more... looking at the trend since 1966 when free agency idea was conceived by Sandy and Don's hold out. while 30 per year player becomes almost as causally seen on every team in MLB minus Oakland A's, and a handful more.

the worst brunt of the contract of Stanton is in his mid 30's at 32 per season. by then, it will easily be the norm and Stanton may end up feeling wanting to opt out, which will be welcomed.

Ron Darling on MLB Tonight stated that he expects Stanton to opt out of his contract because Bryce Harper will get $400 million over 10 years as a free agent next winter. While Darling isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, he does provide a counter to your point albeit inadvertently. Even if Stanton's production proves to be worth it with the inflationary rise in contracts being handed out by then, it still suppresses his trade value because you're only assured of getting him for 3 more seasons, otherwise, it becomes an albatross commitment for any organization should he struggle or suffer a career-threatening injury.

This is why the Dodgers are handling things perfectly in letting things play out in order to wait for the Marlins to come back with more favorable terms where Miami has to eat a big portion of the remaining contract commitment. Having a player dictate the terms of his large contract for so many years in the latter stages of his career is not something a smart front office should be rushing to accept.

I dunno man. I think they literally do not have the money to pay that contract, let alone make annual payments to off-set. I think Stanton is going to SF. Ohtani is going to Seattle. but we still have the better team.

Ranma · Post #293 » by **Ranma** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 4:34 am

Neddy wrote:I dunno man. I think they literally do not have the money to pay that contract, let alone make annual payments to off-set. I think Stanton is going to SF. Ohtani is going to Seattle. but we still have the better team.

It may very well be true that Jeter and his ownership group are the next incarnation of McCourt as Marlins owners who don't have the money to eat much of what's left of Stanton's contract, but they don't have a choice if Stanton exercises his full no-trade clause. As a hypothetical, if they're stuck with the Dodgers as the only option as a trade partner, they're better off eating half of Stanton's remaining contract commitment than all of it by keeping him.

This all lines up with Miami's urgency in trying to get a deal done now, especially with the Cardinals reportedly now willing to pay off more of Stanton's contract. I suspect the Marlins leaked this "2-3 days" timeline of a deal getting done to up the pressure and urgency to get Stanton to cave, which makes no sense to me. In fact, Heyman is contradicting this latest talk a bit with his own report that such an estimate is quite hopeful.

My guess is that Jeter & Co. want a deal to get done with St. Louis but Stanton will probably still hold out for the Dodgers. In any case, it will either be the Dodgers or San Francisco since I don't see Stanton being excited to go to St. Louis. I think the Stanton situation will play out longer at least until the winter meetings begin.

Quake Griffin · Post #294 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 4:46 am

Just want to get this straight.

People want Yu gone?
They want to trade for Stanton?
AND...go win now and deal for another ace by the deadline?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Neddy · Post #295 » by **Neddy** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 5:01 am

Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:I dunno man. I think they literally do not have the money to pay that contract, let alone make annual payments to off-set. I think Stanton is going to SF. Ohtani is going to Seattle. but we still have the better team.

It may very well be true that Jeter and his ownership group are the next incarnation of McCourt as Marlins owners who don't have the money to eat much of what's left of Stanton's contract, but they don't have a choice if Stanton exercises his full no-trade clause. As a hypothetical, if they're stuck with the Dodgers as the only option as a trade partner, they're better off eating half of Stanton's remaining contract commitment than all of it by keeping him.

This all lines up with Miami's urgency in trying to get a deal done now, especially with the Cardinals reportedly now willing to pay off more of Stanton's contract. I suspect the Marlins leaked this "2-3 days" timeline of a deal getting done to up the pressure and urgency to get Stanton to cave, which makes no sense to me. In fact, Heyman is contradicting this latest talk a bit with his own report that such an estimate is quite hopeful.

My guess is that Jeter & Co. want a deal to get done with St. Louis but Stanton will probably still hold out for the Dodgers. In any case, it will either be the Dodgers or San Francisco since I don't see Stanton being excited to go to St. Louis. I think the Stanton situation will play out longer at least until the winter meetings begin.

... or, they will simply do what they said they will do, which is sell off the rest of the team that is worth a damn to dump off salary and keep Stanton on a no-man's AAAA island with team full of unworthy kids for the next 3 years until he opts out to save his sanity.

which speaking of, gives me the fire sale potentials from this.

they can use one of the best team friendly contracts of Christian Yellich plus a prospect or two to sell off Chen's stupifying contract, then they can get 17 million from the majors payroll while saving 90 million dollars in the next 4 years.

after that, perhaps a deal of Jose Urena to sell off either one of Dee Gordon or Martin Prado? perhaps both with a pair of top prospects... that will also save nearly 25 million next year and around 67 million for the next 3-4 years.

that is potentially 42 million in savings, which will probably satisfy the management's financial goals.

looking at the premises I set for myself, I do not like either deal here for our dodgers. but they could get done with someone else that makes sense more. but I do understand they prefer to remove the biggest financial drain first, and hope to formulate some kind of financially sensible roster that still have talent enough to not be dead last in their division for the next half a decade. I am sure they want the prospects and young, cheap labor they already have to build around than just 1 guy who will soon turn 30.

Neddy · Post #296 » by **Neddy** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 5:19 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Just want to get this straight.

People want Yu gone?
They want to trade for Stanton?
AND...go win now and deal for another ace by the deadline?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

well you have a better chance with a bad contract on a regular player than on a pitcher.... who already has a injury history and has shown regression recently. but yeah I get your logic.

hey bringing in the best player in NL to his hometown which happens to be the best team of NL, was a compelling story but looks like he will be a giant or a cardinal by the end of this week, as it appear we are also serious about getting under the lux tax line.

Ranma · Post #297 » by **Ranma** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 5:33 am

Neddy wrote:... or, they will simply do what they said they will do, which is sell off the rest of the team that is worth a damn to dump off salary and keep Stanton on a no-man's AAAA island with team full of unworthy kids for the next 3 years until he opts out to save his sanity.

which speaking of, gives me the fire sale potentials from this.

they can use one of the best team friendly contracts of Christian Yellich plus a prospect or two to sell off Chen's stupifying contract, then they can get 17 million from the majors payroll while saving 90 million dollars in the next 4 years.

after that, perhaps a deal of Jose Urena to sell off either one of Dee Gordon or Martin Prado? perhaps both with a pair of top prospects... that will also save nearly 25 million next year and around 67 million for the next 3-4 years.

that is potentially 42 million in savings, which will probably satisfy the management's financial goals.

looking at the premises I set for myself, I do not like either deal here for our dodgers. but they could get done with someone else that makes sense more. but I do understand they prefer to remove the biggest financial drain first, and hope to formulate some kind of financially sensible roster that still have talent enough to not be dead last in their division for the next half a decade. I am sure they want the prospects and young, cheap labor they already have to build around than just 1 guy who will soon turn 30.

The Marlins are going to have a fire sale regardless of whether they dump Stanton. They're not fooling anyone by saying that they'll be willing to keep him and his gargantuan contract around and I certainly don't want to add any more deadweight contracts to the Dodgers' payroll, so it's Stanton or nothing from Miami for me. In the Heyman report I cited, he mentioned how keeping Stanton is a last resort and worst-case scenario for the Marlins. Further, it points out that it would be worse for Miami than it would be for Stanton for them to stick with each other since Stanton still enjoys living in Miami and wouldn't lose $25 million over 10 years in state taxes by being traded to California.

Stanton may still want to play for a winner but he's not exactly losing out by sticking with and it to the Marlins, especially since he can still opt out in 3 seasons. There's no way the Marlins are going to risk having to pay him for 3 more seasons only to lose him for nothing or, worse yet for them, having to pay him for the full 10 years left on his albatross deal. The bottom line is dumping Stanton's contract saves the Marlins money regardless of how much Miami would have to eat. One way or the other, Jeter & Co. will do whatever it takes to free themselves of Stanton's long-term salary commitment.

If Stanton sticks to his guns, he can have his cake and eat it too except for the state taxes thing. He'll be a Dodger if he really wants it. The Dodgers have made a point to have their interest publicly known. It's up to Stanton to follow through and force the Marlins' hand. If he panics and can't hold out in a no-lose situation, then he'll have to live with the knowledge that he'll be playing for the archrival of his favorite boyhood team when he had it within his power to wear Dodger blue.

Ranma · Post #298 » by **Ranma** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 7:23 am

Buster Olney, ESPN.com (12/3/17)

The Dodgers have not been heavily involved in the Stanton talks to this point, largely because they’re not interested in taking on such a massive contract. But sources say the Dodgers are well aware that the Stanton talks could turn in their direction, and in time, as the Stanton situation marinates, there could be an opportunity for them to consider.

Rival executives have spoken with admiration of the discipline that Andrew Friedman has demonstrated in his time with the Dodgers, citing his handling of Yu Darvish trade talks last summer -- when Friedman waited and waited and waited before getting Darvish for what was perceived at the time to be excellent value. If Stanton is willing to go to only the Dodgers and the Marlins decide they have to move as much of the contract as possible -- as the Rangers did with Alex Rodriguez in the winter of 2003-04, when they ate about 40 percent of his salary to make their deal with the Yankees -- then Friedman will have some leverage.

Friedman could make the money in a Stanton deal work a little better by working to shed some of his extraneous investments. He could ask the Marlins to take left-hander Scott Kazmir, who is owed $17.67 million for next season, and/or right-hander Brandon McCarthy, who will make $11.5 million. The Dodgers could approach Adrian Gonzalez, who will make $22.4 million next season, and give him choices: He could waive his no-trade clause, be included in the package to the Marlins (the team that drafted him in 2000) and have a chance to play regularly in 2018, or he could sit on the Dodgers’ bench.

If the Dodgers shed some expensive veterans in the deal and have a chance to get Stanton for say, $225 million to $240 million over 10 years, and if the Marlins are presented with their only immediate opportunity to dump $225 million in debt, it’s hard to imagine either side saying no.

Tough Market for Top Free Agents Looking to Land with Contenders

Ranma · Post #299 » by **Ranma** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 8:14 pm

Read on Twitter

Quake Griffin · Post #300 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Dec 5, 2017 12:52 am

Yikes.

If they want Wacha, they’ll take anything.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums