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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

What direction would you like the front office to take?

Keep developing young guys and keep first rounders
74
73%
Trade our 18 first/Jackson and whatever else for best player available
11
11%
Trade whatever it takes for vet PG and maybe also vet PF
9
9%
Trade vets for expiring contracts and 2nd rounders
7
7%
 
Total votes: 101

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#81 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 5, 2017 5:24 pm

RedIndian wrote:How about Len for Okafor straight up?

The Sixers are desperate for any value for Jahlil at the moment. They want a back-up to Embiid, and Len might be decent in that role. Len's been voicing frustration, so this might be a good opportunity for him as well.

Likewise with us. Seems unlikely that we're going to re-sign Len; so if we are intrigued by Okafor, we might as well make the swap now.

Both teams get a good look at the players, and if they like what they see, they can reward them with decent-ish contracts in the summer.

Okafor might just be a dude who could surprise everyone, and flourish massively because of a change in scenery. For starters, he's good friends with Booker. With our lack of offensive options, he'll definitely get the opportunity to make an impact. I also see him helping alleviate our PG problem, as he's a very good passer out of the post. A playmaker in the paint will help offset the painful production we're getting from our PGs.

I understand that there are plenty of issues with Okafor's game, especially his defense. But what do we really have to lose here? Plenty of reports that Okafor dropped 20 pounds this summer. With a new team, perhaps he puts in real effort to become leaner, fitter and quicker on the defensive end.


Len has to approve any deal, and won't, because in doing so he would lose his Bird Rights. Preserving those allows him to be S&T'd to a team that would not have the cap space to sign him outright (or simply re-signed by us). As there aren't a ton of teams with a lot of cap space, I strongly doubt he approves of any trade.

Plus, there are signs our offense is starting to come together around Booker-Warren-Jackson-Stretch 4-Finishing Big-Bench Scoring Guard. Ain't no post big in there. We'll go the opposite direction with our Tyson replacement, for sure - whether that's Alex or someone else.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#82 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 5, 2017 5:51 pm

One issue I see with okafor is him and big sauce kind of project as the same player. A back up big who is a bucket getter for the second unit.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#83 » by King4Day » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:00 pm

Hesh wrote:
Read on Twitter


George Hill pulling a bledsoe :lol: ? Maybe we can get him


This was brought up the other day and I think he was mad because he was asked to reduce his playing time.
I'd be OK with him if we can do it for Monroe straight up.
It'd ultimately be Bledsoe for Hill and a 1st. Not too bad IMO.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#84 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:12 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:One issue I see with okafor is him and big sauce kind of project as the same player. A back up big who is a bucket getter for the second unit.

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I think a lot of us saw this and thought, with Al being out and the team struggling, maybe this would be a good place for Okafor to get some burn. But now it's been nearly two months, and the more time passes, the smaller the window of opportunity. Throw in the fact that Okafor's extension was not picked up and you have a dubious value proposition from the start.

Of course, the very best thing for this team would be to come together and get some wins with this current group. After the consecutive stinkers against NOP and DET, this team has come out and played consecutive solid games against Eastern Conference playoff teams. Not surprising that this has coincided with Booker going off, and clearly Booker needs more help, but I don't think Okafor is a wise option.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#85 » by LukasBMW » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:15 pm

I actually would like to keep Len if we can keep him for cheap. He's not a starting quality big, but he looks decent at times. I still think he is a top 10 backup when motivated.

If we can sign (sign...not trade for) Okafor, I'd like to do that too.

-Sign Okafor to a deal that let's us keep his bird rights. (1 +1 with a team option for year 2?)
-Start Okafor.
-Buyout or trade Monroe
-Len is our backup
-Tyson becomes our coach
-Sauce recovers

It gives us the rest of the year to look at Okafor and Len.

Then we see who we draft.

Then we have options at the start of next season.
-Tyson will be an asset since he is expiring.
-Sauce is on a friendly deal.
-Len may or may not stay. I'll keep him for cheap.
-We may or may not renew Okafor
-Did we get lucky and draft Ayton or Bamba?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#86 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:15 pm

One last thing --- it's starting to look like Bamba might fall. I think he's a looong ways off. If I had to pick two other centers to be on our roster to cushion his entry into the NBA, they would be Tyson and Big Sauce. FWIW.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#87 » by Qwigglez » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:16 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
OK. The only way we make this trade is if Cousins commits to resign here this summer when he is a free agent. But if we can sell him on that, why trade assets for him now? We can just keep those assets and sign him this summer. We keep assets, give our young players more time, get a better draft pick, and still sign Cousins. It would be worth the wait.


We wouldn't have the cap space. Add our three 1st round picks and that is about 10mil in salary cap space. Add more for our 2nd rounders. Mike James is going to get a deal so add more salary to our books. We'd also have to renounce Len's rights, Monroe's rights, and likely give up picks just for a team to eat a contract (Dudley). Can't have our cake and eat it too.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#88 » by Hesh » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:18 pm

DarkHawk wrote:
Hesh wrote:
Read on Twitter


George Hill pulling a bledsoe :lol: ? Maybe we can get him


This was brought up the other day and I think he was mad because he was asked to reduce his playing time.
I'd be OK with him if we can do it for Monroe straight up.
It'd ultimately be Bledsoe for Hill and a 1st. Not too bad IMO.


Oh my bad. I've been pretty busy the last few days, hence I missed the epic game against the sixers :( Yeah Hill would be a major upgrade over what we have now, even with the season he's having. We all know what he's capable of.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#89 » by Jay_Sizzle » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:20 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:Tyson played one of his best games as a Sun against Philly. Tons of lobs in traffic. I could imagine a few teams being interested in his services --- but one of these teams, surely, is us! Especially since it doesn't look like Len is interested in coming back. Tyson and Big Sauce would no doubt be able to hold down the 5 spot next year as we look to mold a young starting C. $20 million is a reasonable price tag for that duo.


Man was Tyson good last night. Might have been his best game as a Sun. He grabbed rebounds and was a legitimate defensive presence inside. He becomes much easier to move if he plays like that. Probably even returns positive value.

That being said, I REALLY enjoyed watching last night's Suns. Chandler shut down the inside and Booker just lit the Sixers up. Book was unstoppable, loved the frustration timeout by the Sixers near the end last night.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#90 » by RedIndian » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:22 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:One issue I see with okafor is him and big sauce kind of project as the same player. A back up big who is a bucket getter for the second unit.

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I think that's underrating Okafor's talent significantly.

Ultimately, he was considered by many to be a potential no. 1 pick in a pretty solid draft. Elite measurements - 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan, 9'3 standing reach and absolutely massive hands. Those are at par or better than most of the elite centers in the league.

I like Williams quite a bit, but Okafor is just far more talented - more skilled as a scorer in the post, much better ball-handler, and has significant potential as a post passer.

He might perhaps never make it for a myriad reasons, but lack of talent isn't one of them. If he develops a decent jump shot, his ceiling is Boogie Cousins.
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#91 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:27 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:One last thing --- it's starting to look like Bamba might fall. I think he's a looong ways off. If I had to pick two other centers to be on our roster to cushion his entry into the NBA, they would be Tyson and Big Sauce. FWIW.

This is why patience and waiting until the offseason is prudent. Say bamba falls to them in the in the 5-10 range then as you said it would make sense to just roll chandler and sause and give him a year to redshirt. I love bambas potential but he's certainly the rawest of the big prospects.

Overall there will be a lot of options at c for the suns this summer in FA, draft, and trades so no reason to box themselves in now.

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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#92 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:32 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:One last thing --- it's starting to look like Bamba might fall. I think he's a looong ways off. If I had to pick two other centers to be on our roster to cushion his entry into the NBA, they would be Tyson and Big Sauce. FWIW.

This is why patience and waiting until the offseason is prudent. Say bamba falls to them in the in the 5-10 range then as you said it would make sense to just roll chandler and sause and give him a year to redshirt. I love bambas potential but he's certainly the rawest of the big prospects.

Overall there will be a lot of options at c for the suns this summer in FA, draft, and trades so no reason to box themselves in now.

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Exactly. Sometimes its hard to stay the course, stay patient, and maintain flexibility, but it is the right move -- basically always if you're not contending. It's hard, though, when things that take time end up... taking time. Games like last night make it easier.

Thank you, Devin Booker.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#93 » by thamadkant » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:32 pm

RedIndian wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:One issue I see with okafor is him and big sauce kind of project as the same player. A back up big who is a bucket getter for the second unit.

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I think that's underrating Okafor's talent significantly.

Ultimately, he was considered by many to be a potential no. 1 pick in a pretty solid draft. Elite measurements - 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan, 9'3 standing reach and absolutely massive hands. Those are at par or better than most of the elite centers in the league.

I like Williams quite a bit, but Okafor is just far more talented - more skilled as a scorer in the post, much better ball-handler, and has significant potential as a post passer.

He might perhaps never make it for a myriad reasons, but lack of talent isn't one of them. If he develops a decent jump shot, his ceiling is Boogie Cousins.



Trading for Okafor is a lose lose situation because once he expires next season he can only be signed on a bigger contract by another team. So he will be lured away easily.


But if 76ers buy him out... Another team now can sign him to a multi year contract and securing him longer.


76Ers are really holding him back by keeping him and not releasing him to become FA.
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#94 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 5, 2017 6:43 pm

1UPZ wrote:
RedIndian wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:One issue I see with okafor is him and big sauce kind of project as the same player. A back up big who is a bucket getter for the second unit.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I think that's underrating Okafor's talent significantly.

Ultimately, he was considered by many to be a potential no. 1 pick in a pretty solid draft. Elite measurements - 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan, 9'3 standing reach and absolutely massive hands. Those are at par or better than most of the elite centers in the league.

I like Williams quite a bit, but Okafor is just far more talented - more skilled as a scorer in the post, much better ball-handler, and has significant potential as a post passer.

He might perhaps never make it for a myriad reasons, but lack of talent isn't one of them. If he develops a decent jump shot, his ceiling is Boogie Cousins.



Trading for Okafor is a lose lose situation because once he expires next season he can only be signed on a bigger contract by another team. So he will be lured away easily.


But if 76ers buy him out... Another team now can sign him to a multi year contract and securing him longer.


76Ers are really holding him back by keeping him and not releasing him to become FA.

This is key. If they trade for him and he plays well he prices out the suns this summer and if he stinks then they wont want him back. Seems like only a small window where he plays just good enough to come back but not well enough to leave. Its why I never really bought the interest in him. If they really wanted him why not do that trade two months ago and pick up his option.

Now if he gets bought out and they want to kick the tires sure I'm all for it.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#95 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 7:52 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Not the only concern with DJ. For him to be more successful on the team, we'd have to surround him with at least 2 other scorers. Booker is one, Warren is one, but we'd need one more, preferably someone with range. Ideally we'd have to get a PG who can shoot 3's as well as make passes. I'd rule out getting DJ because of all this.

This would be my ideal scenario:
McDonough cashin' in!
Spoiler:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yavvqy8s

Suns get-
Demarcus Cousins
Omer Asik

Clippers get-
Greg Monroe
Marquese Chriss
Derrick Jones Jr
2018 Miami 1st
2018 Bucks 1st

Pelicans get-
Deandre Jordan
Lou Williams
2018 Suns 2nd

Then we can do this trade too...
Suns get-
Dennis Schroder

Hawks get-
Omer Asik
2018 Suns 1st (top 3 protected)
2021 Miami 1st

1st trade, we take the risk of of Boogie staying here this off-season. We'd have a fairly balanced roster so it's likely he would stay with us. Also note, not many playoff caliber teams if any, will have the cap space to offer Boogie a full max contract. Clippers do this because they risk losing DJ this off-season so they cash in with a young player in Chriss and 2 1st round picks, which IMO is very fair value and even a bit of an overpay for an expiring contract. Pelicans balance out their roster with DJ instead of Boogie in the paint, and Lou Williams to handle the scoring for the wing, something they desperately need. They also move that albatross contract in Asik to open up their salary. I saw someone mention on the trade board that Boogie/AD have a record of 17-20 when they play together so they aren't exactly tearing teams apart as this twin towers duo. Holiday would likely see an uptick in his assists as I feel his usage likely went down due to Boogie handling the ball more.

2nd trade, the Hawks take the albatross contract in Asik but hopefully they don't mind since they are in full tank mode. They get two picks for a PG, which is a lot considering PG's is the most saturated position in the NBA. if they decline, we can give them Dudley instead of Asik (Dudley has one less year on his contract).

Suns balance out the roster and are set for the next 4 years at the very least if Boogie stays in Phoenix. We could also go ahead and keep both Boogie and even Alex Len this off-season if he was wiling to stay here. We maintain our youth for the most part, and even can bring them along slowly (Jackson/Bender). We'd still have upside for the future, and be exciting for the present too.
2018 roster:
Schroder/Booker/Warren/Boogie/Chandler
Ulis/Daniels/Jackson/Bender/Len

The 2018-19 season will be interesting because we'll actually have Knight, Reed, and Alan Williams coming to full health which bolsters our bench mob.

We fully cash in all our assets, but I feel like it would be worth it to build around Booker as soon as possible. I feel we'd be a pretty unstoppable team too. Booker/Boogie combo should be lethal. Combine that with Warren/Schroder as our third/fourth wheel scorer. Daniels/Knight as our microwave scorers off the bench, with defensive stoppers in Jackson/Bender. Williams with the hustle, Len with the mystery box. Reed may also be able to contribute.

Also I know I already mentioned this scenario, but I tweaked it a bit.


OK. The only way we make this trade is if Cousins commits to resign here this summer when he is a free agent. But if we can sell him on that, why trade assets for him now? We can just keep those assets and sign him this summer. We keep assets, give our young players more time, get a better draft pick, and still sign Cousins. It would be worth the wait.


Yeah, if he wants to be here, sign him. Don't trade for him when we are not going anywhere anyway this year. It's very doubtful he goes anywhere anyway.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#96 » by jeff2020 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:00 pm

I voted to keep the first round picks and keep developing our "young talent" but we are playing a big game of chicken with Booker in my opinion. I would like the option of keep jackson and trade 1st round picks and bender/Chriss. Booker looks like he is ready to take the next step and we have nobody on this roster that is ready to help, not even close. Bender and Chriss are far off and they both definitely have the potential to bust. QJackson is probably 2-3 years away from really helping a winning team. Warren is solid but no better than a 4th option on a team wanting to contend. Without acquiring any proven players via trade or free agency we are running the risk of Booker becoming a disgruntled superstar that will want out at all costs
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#97 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:23 pm

jeff2020 wrote:I voted to keep the first round picks and keep developing our "young talent" but we are playing a big game of chicken with Booker in my opinion. I would like the option of keep jackson and trade 1st round picks and bender/Chriss. Booker looks like he is ready to take the next step and we have nobody on this roster that is ready to help, not even close. Bender and Chriss are far off and they both definitely have the potential to bust. QJackson is probably 2-3 years away from really helping a winning team. Warren is solid but no better than a 4th option on a team wanting to contend. Without acquiring any proven players via trade or free agency we are running the risk of Booker becoming a disgruntled superstar that will want out at all costs


I actually don't think either Bender or Chriss have much chance of "busting." Barring injury it looks like each will have at least a substantial NBA career.

It's like people think we drafted eggs and get panicked when they see other teams' picks hatch first!
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#98 » by thamadkant » Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:34 pm

IMO...

Booker is at his best playing the "Curry" role... or the Lebron role or late-career Kobe role.

Basically the main ball handler.


I really really like the Booker, Jackson, Warren backcourt. Jackson being the defensive specialists opportunistic slasher, Warren the mid range 2nd option scorer....

now just need a RELIABLE big man inside who can catch the ball, play with his back to the basket but make plays.... and a reliable defensive PF who can slide around and switch.

Basically you have 4 out of 5 who can switch and a go-to big man who will score inside one on one or draw fouls.



Bender is not ready to be that PF.... Monroe would be a decent Center, but he's just a bit old. Hence Ayton would be ideal big man going forward.





Ideally, what I would want is Paul George next to Booker, have Jackson play the Andre Roberson role, except he's better offensively and much much higher ceiling.... Warren off the bench as the 15ppg sixth man.



As much as I like Chandler for leadership, he "tries" defensively half the time these days and this is understandable as he is 35 and much better as a back up Center.


hence if Suns can get the following.... I think they can push for playoffs and make noise.

- Paul George
- Okafor (ceiling) /Cousins (Ideal)
- An energy and hustling defensive PF, maybe Amir Johnson, James Johnson, Thadeus Young... perfect would be Draymond Green though.



So yeah lol... tall task
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#99 » by King4Day » Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:55 pm

Hesh wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
Hesh wrote:
Read on Twitter


George Hill pulling a bledsoe :lol: ? Maybe we can get him


This was brought up the other day and I think he was mad because he was asked to reduce his playing time.
I'd be OK with him if we can do it for Monroe straight up.
It'd ultimately be Bledsoe for Hill and a 1st. Not too bad IMO.


Oh my bad. I've been pretty busy the last few days, hence I missed the epic game against the sixers :( Yeah Hill would be a major upgrade over what we have now, even with the season he's having. We all know what he's capable of.


I didn't mean for it to sound like I was calling you out for the post if it did. I was just stating that from what I heard from that discussion, he was unhappy due to his minutes changing.

We'd still be where we want in 2 years with regards to the cap. Just a matter of what do the Kings want? If they want assets for Hill, we probably won't offer them that. Monroe and a 2nd or 2, perhaps.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#100 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Dec 5, 2017 9:26 pm

I always thought Booker was much better in a traditional off-ball SG role but he has his hit a hot streak off the dribble that shows he may be able to be a shot creator like Harden. I still think it's harder to shoot efficiently one on one but if he can do he might be able to take more PG minutes.

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