How bad are we really? How watchable are we?

[Alcatraz17]

We have the worst record in the league.

We have the ability not be the worst team talent wise when NIiko and LaVine return.

I've caught almost every game, and even attend some. I dont blame people for thinking its unwatchable, but I do some see reasons to watch.

Lauri and Dunn's development are worth watching for.

Identifying a couple pieces you want around in future is worth it too (Nwaba, Holiday, Valentine, whatever).

But again, I don't blame people who find it unwatchable though. I do find it interesting that some posters post about the team, but claim to not watch? How can you comment on something you're supposed to watch to analyze?

Most of us don't comment on the game or individual players...there is not much to comment. I feel it would be similar to my opinion of Khalid El Amin or Jake Voskuhl in the 2000s....just didn't matter.

But, you can also make some good judgments based on stats(not box scores). The point is we all like this team and want them to succeed but do not like how it is being done or how they have behaved for the last few years. As I said, we are not cheerleaders for the front office. We are fans who have our opinions/ideas.

You're kinda crossing over ideas. But I should rephrase my question to have been more specific to posters who may post opinions, but don't watch games.

By you saying "Most of us don't comment" you're implying that you still visit and read...which is interesting in itself...that someone would find it worth reading others comments on things that "there isnt much to comment on".

Is your last sentence a shot? Are you implying that those who continue to watch games are cheerleaders of the front office?

[Rerisen]

I tried, but after about 10 games of this crap, I can't keep them on the screen for over 5 minutes usually without my eyes glazing over. I think this is the first time in over 20 years I don't even know what days the games are on.

I've seen enough to realize Dunn is a huge project, very far off, if he ever gets there, and Lauri, while it looks like he'll be a rotation player of some caliber, is by no means some kind of Shaq/MJ rookie that is going to captivate you by what they are doing nightly and destined superstardom.

While everyone else are just scrubs or random NBA fillers that have no important bearing on an eventual competing team.

Worse they don't play interesting or cohesive basketball because the coach has very little impact on the team.

Not watching the piling losses has been a great choice too, as for my feelings of the team. I'm not constantly disgusted about them or endlessly having to vent how much I dislike Fred, the FO, or various players. Because its a kind of out of sight, out of mind type of deal. But also sad, when connection to your favorite team is minimized to checking box scores, or maybe watching some postgame player highlights. Definitely not a level of interaction that can go on for multiple years I think.

[Ctownbulls]

The biggest issue is, the talent is not as bad as the record. The talent is really, really bad - don't get me wrong. But there is no reason they should only have 3 wins and be getting blown out every game. Fred needs to go.

[Warren G]

After watching AJ Guyton and Trenton Hassell and Khalid el Amin teams, following two three peats, this team is entirely watchable.

It still seems to go over people's heads that the team is trying to lose, Hoiberg himself was on those teams with those previous scrubs and played 10 years in the league. He's in on it, this year is all about the young guys and getting another young guy to run with them.

Once Lavine comes back is when it should get interesting, but right now the goal is to get that top draft pick.

[mj234eva]

I've only avoided the games that I thought the Bulls would get absolutely murdered in, and/or the ones where I have no interest watching the opponent...like when they played the Kings.

I started the season with the intention of watching most of the games. However, once the season started, and Holiday began to chuck bad shot after bad shot, I couldn't take it every game.

[kodo]

Without Lavine & Niko, it's the least immediately effective team in recent history. Much of that is due to going so young, most of the team will get better as they mature. But in terms of immediate winning power, it's the least in decades.

People talk about the Hinkie Sixers going full tank by going super young and working on project players...what the Bulls did is a notch beyond even that.

10 win Sixers:
Okafor
Noel
Ish Smith
Covington
McConnell
Richaun Holmes
Landry
Hollis Thompson
Jerami Grant

15 win Bucks
Brandon Knight
Khris Middleton
Ilyasova
Giannis
Larry Sanders
OJ Mayo
John Henson
Ramon Sessions
Zaza Pachulia

Both the 10 win Sixers & 15 win Bucks had far more veteran experience & raw talent on their rosters.

Right now, on paper, this should be 0 win team. They've played with a lot of hustle, they and the coaching staff have overachieved to stay in games and even win a small handful.

[Darius Miles Davis]

I've got to be honest. I'm really enjoying this season. I am growing to like the Butler trade more and more, seeing the potential of Lauri and Dunn. I find both of them really fun to watch. Now that we are starting Dunn, we are giving our most talented younger players lots of time to develop. Best case scenario is Lavine comes back and shows he retained his athleticism, and we start winning toward the end of the season, though not until we have secured one of the worst records in the league.

I like it better than the middling we were doing last season.

[Kurt Heimlich]

If you enjoy competitive basketball, they're basically unwatchable all of the time.

If you want to watch for certain player development, they are more watchable than my 600 pound life rerun's at least.

[rowseyna]

Without Lavine & Niko, it's the least talented team in NBA history. It's Lopez, Markkanen, and a bunch of guys who are fringe NBA players and wouldn't make most rosters. They've overachieved to get where they are right now.

Talent-wise & experience-wise, it's worse than the 15 win Bucks team or 10 win Sixers team...MUCH worse than either team.

10 win Sixers:
Okafor
Noel
Ish Smith
Covington
McConnell
Richaun Holmes
Landry
Hollis Thompson
Jerami Grant

15 win Bucks
Brandon Knight
Khris Middleton
Ilyasova
Giannis
Larry Sanders
OJ Mayo
John Henson
Ramon Sessions
Zaza Pachulia

Both the 10 win Sixers & 15 win Bucks had far more veteran experience & raw talent on their rosters.

Right now, on paper, this should be 0 win team. They've played with a lot of hustle, they and the coaching staff have overachieved to stay in games and even win a small handful.

I disagree with this. Even without LaVine and Niko (though should we include them?), I think this roster is better than both of those teams you mentioned. It's more than RoLo and Lauri. Bobby Portis would make every single roster in the league. So would Denzel Valentine. So probably would Dunn, Grant, and Holiday (and obviously LaVine and Niko). And despite letting Nwaba go, after how he's played to start this year, he'd probably make most every roster, too. Those are all legit NBA players.

So, legit NBA players who would make most every single roster in the league:
Kris Dunn
Jerian Grant
Justin Holiday
Zach LaVine
Robin Lopez
Lauri Markkanen
Nikola Mirotic
David Nwaba
Bobby Portis
Denzel Valentine

We really only have a couple of fringe NBA players that might not make a lot of rosters: Felder, Felicio, Payne, Pondexter, and Zipser (and the two two-way guys... though I think just about every team would take Blakeney for their future).

At full strength, with a 10-man rotation, this team is much better than the full-strength, 10-man rotations either of those two teams could put forth.

Dunn - LaVine - Valentine - Markkanen - Lopez
Grant - Holiday - Nwaba - Mirotic - Portis

Decent number of vets and decent amount of future potential.

[Alcatraz17]

The biggest issue is, the talent is not as bad as the record. The talent is really, really bad - don't get me wrong. But there is no reason they should only have 3 wins and be getting blown out every game. Fred needs to go.

I think certain things are being done to ensure we lose....or if we win, its a certain way. And that cant all be put on Fred.

Dunn missed the first two weeks of season, Nwaba missed 11 games, LaVine and Niko haven't played, and Portis missed 8 games. Add those situations to an organization who is expecting to lose...this was expected.

The Bulls are 3-19. Going back in time and starting over with everyone in good health, this team is 6-16/7-15...maybe 8-14. Does a handful of extra wins at this point in the season really matter?

With rebuilding comes a ton of other things to work through other than the win loss column. And now that were at the bottom, people are going to be extra restless from boredom.

With that being said....nothing shows me that Fred is the guy for us. He'll have the 2nd half of the season with a healthy LaVine and a padded loss column to show us anything he has as a coach. If not, I will personally have closed the door on him as the coach beyond next year.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

The only thing that keeps me connected to the Bulls is the fact that I frequent this board out of habit. Almost 2 decades of habitually looking for "news" for a team that I really really loved at one point, ironically, the most during the post-MJ Krause era.

I first checked out of following this team everyday when BG was first gone. Some of you might be surprised to know that I didn't even really enjoy the Rose-Thibs era all that much, but at least I know I could tune in and watch the playoffs. I really, really tuned out when Nate Robinson was not re-signed.

All of this apathy is mainly because I hate Garpax and don't have any confidence in their ability to make anything that will resemble a championship team or at least even challenge a championship team. Just waiting for them to be gone, but not sure how soon that will be.

At the moment, I kind of know who is on the team, more so than even last year. Every year, I'm just waiting for a 2004-2005 Ben Gordon type-moment when something totally random happens and I see a pattern of winning that could actually give even just a glimmer of hope for future viewing.

Have not been a metrics person, but I do casually view box scores and the very basic player stats, but I don't see anything compelling. I waste my time following other things.

In my full laze and armchair GM Lavar Ball mode with a lot of anger still directed at Garpax, and without having watched a single game, I am fully compelled to say that Markkanen is Elton Brand 2.0. I reserve the right to change my opinion. LOL, any "rational analysis" might return if we return to winning with the younger, long-term pieces.

I actually might want to watch Zach Lavine however for a game or two, and that's only because he went to UCLA. Though, my negative nancy viewer identifies him as Ron Mercer 2.0.

[Stratmaster]

Historically bad. However, that is not surprising being as the team was built to tank and the two best players on the team have yet to see the court. I think when Lavine and Niko are back and have blown the rust off we will be back to just bad; and somewhat watchable.

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[Stratmaster]

The only thing that keeps me connected to the Bulls is the fact that I frequent this board out of habit. Almost 2 decades of habitually looking for "news" for a team that I really really loved at one point, ironically, the most during the post-MJ Krause era.

I first checked out of following this team everyday when BG was first gone. Some of you might be surprised to know that I didn't even really enjoy the Rose-Thibs era all that much, but at least I know I could tune in and watch the playoffs. I really, really tuned out when Nate Robinson was not re-signed.

All of this apathy is mainly because I hate Garpax and don't have any confidence in their ability to make anything that will resemble a championship team or at least even challenge a championship team. Just waiting for them to be gone, but not sure how soon that will be.

At the moment, I kind of know who is on the team, more so than even last year. Every year, I'm just waiting for a 2004-2005 Ben Gordon type-moment when something totally random happens and I see a pattern of winning that could actually give even just a glimmer of hope for future viewing.

Have not been a metrics person, but I do casually view box scores and the very basic player stats, but I don't see anything compelling. I waste my time following other things.

In my full laze and armchair GM Lavar Ball mode with a lot of anger still directed at Garpax, and without having watched a single game, I am fully compelled to say that Markkanen is Elton Brand 2.0. I reserve the right to change my opinion. LOL, any "rational analysis" might return if we return to winning with the younger, long-term pieces.

I actually might want to watch Zach Lavine however for a game or two, and that's only because he went to UCLA. Though, my negative nancy viewer identifies him as Ron Mercer 2.0.

Ben Gordon and Nate Robinson were the major attractions? Ouch.

Sent from my SM-G920V using RealGM mobile app

[Red Larrivee]

I've tuned into more games than I anticipated. I largely attribute that to habit. Simultaneously, I haven't made it through many games.

This team is difficult to watch. I didn't mind the last few years, because there was always a chance that the Bulls could beat anyone. Sure, they didn't play hard, but it was much more watchable than this. You're basically tuning in with full knowledge that the Bulls are going to get killed each game. This season is like watching Patrick Star repeatedly try to get through a door with a giant plank on his head.



So far, I think this is going to be the worst Bulls season ever. At least with the post-dynasty teams, the nostalgia of winning 6 titles was recent, so it wasn't as annoying.

[bulls4ever]

I don't think we (players) are "that" bad. System they are playing (or lack of system) is horrible

Watchable???? heelll no. Im waiting for LaVine to get some excitement. Until them ... Im often doing something else while "watching" as playing NBA2k

I knew it was going to be bad, but i was hoping they would be watchable

[stl705]

The Bulls are that bad. They will historically be one of the bad teams when all is said and done imo.

At the beginning of the season and offseason I trashed the team as being unwatchable due to how bad they are. Maybe it's a sick humor thing, but I actually enjoy watching the Bulls now. I laugh at how poor they are sometimes and what a joke of a franchise they've become. I root for losses, but hope Lauri does good as he's the only player on the roster I think will still be on the team in 3 years (not counting Levine).

[SHO'NUFF]

I Love watching this crappy team & haven't missed a game. To me they're more watchable than last years team....

I get excited about back to back games

[coldfish]

When the Bulls super tanked after the dynasty, it was actually a shortened season. They basically swallowed the big pill in a throwaway year. After that, there were people on the roster who you rooted for and they could pull off some wins from time to time.

Maybe Lavine coming will change things. If he starts dropping 25 a night, the team could be interesting. After the first 10 games or so, the team has been unwatchable.

[Leslie Forman]

If you think this team is watchable, it's because you don't watch any basketball other than Bulls games and college games. They are absolutely putrid. Sloppy, unorganized and just plain untalented.

We really only have a couple of fringe NBA players that might not make a lot of rosters: Felder, Felicio, Payne, Pondexter, and Zipser (and the two two-way guys... though I think just about every team would take Blakeney for their future).

1. "Making a roster" is meaningless and
2. That's actually a lot of guys you think wouldn't even make most rosters. That's literally a third of this team.

Now, making a rotation? There's two guys on this entire roster who would even sniff regular playing time for most top teams - LaVine and Lopez.

Nick Young plays 13MPG for GSW. Replace LaVine with him and he's probably playing 35MPG and averaging 20PPG. He'd be pulling a Ricky Davis here, which Justin Holiday can't even do.

[The Evidence]

In after the " Results Oriented " fans.

Last year's team was stylistically unwatchable, despite a superficially average and middling record.

This years team is very watchable despite having the worst record and one of the worst offenses in the league.... the ball movement is much better, tons of side to side action, etc.

Go figure.