Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[bwgood77]

Any interest in Doc Rivers if the Clippers decide to let him go after the season?

He's taken and developed some youngsters in his time in Boston and LA. Has Championship experience, defence orientated, actually draws up plays and is known to hold players responsible.

Also has the Boston ties to McD as well.

Could be interesting.

No, he was terrible in Boston before he got the big 3. Bill Simmons, the biggest Celtics homer out there hated him. He only became a "great coach" with KG and Allen playing with Pierce, and of course the ring to many suddenly means he is a great coach. Clippers fans can't stand him either. No thanks.

[Son of Ra]

Any interest in Doc Rivers if the Clippers decide to let him go after the season?

He's taken and developed some youngsters in his time in Boston and LA. Has Championship experience, defence orientated, actually draws up plays and is known to hold players responsible.

Also has the Boston ties to McD as well.

Could be interesting.

No, he was terrible in Boston before he got the big 3. Bill Simmons, the biggest Celtics homer out there hated him. He only became a "great coach" with KG and Allen playing with Pierce, and of course the ring to many suddenly means he is a great coach. Clippers fans can't stand him either. No thanks.

Agreed. Most overrated coach ever IMO (at least the 24 years I've been following the league). Still think it's basically Thibodeau's championship, not Rivers'.
On top of that he's a really unlikeable douchebag.

[Mulhollanddrive]

If Earl Watson can get the job without interviews then Doc Rivers has 10 times the CV and relationship with Ryan McDonough.

Suns history is just appoint your favourite guy and hope he's good.

[NavLDO]

I voted to keep the first round picks and keep developing our "young talent" but we are playing a big game of chicken with Booker in my opinion. I would like the option of keep jackson and trade 1st round picks and bender/Chriss. Booker looks like he is ready to take the next step and we have nobody on this roster that is ready to help, not even close. Bender and Chriss are far off and they both definitely have the potential to bust. QJackson is probably 2-3 years away from really helping a winning team. Warren is solid but no better than a 4th option on a team wanting to contend. Without acquiring any proven players via trade or free agency we are running the risk of Booker becoming a disgruntled superstar that will want out at all costs

I actually don't think either Bender or Chriss have much chance of "busting." Barring injury it looks like each will have at least a substantial NBA career.

It's like people think we drafted eggs and get panicked when they see other teams' picks hatch first!

Yeah, I don't get it either. They are both just 20. I do understand and appreciate the issues with Chriss, but those are easily fixable with the right mentorship and attitude. But talent-wise, they both will 'get it', so long as Chriss does let his attitude get in the way.

We knew they were going to take years to develop, and here we are in the first 1/3 of Season 2, and 'pitchforks' are already coming out.

That said, I never understood taking 2 PFs in the top 10; one needs to be committed to. I mean, my goodness, we all know we aren't going anywhere this season, barring McD trading for a stud PG RIGHT NOW...

But IMO, Triano should put together a starting 5, and start those 5 every game, and adjust as needed within the game; don't adjust your starters. So...

James / Booker / Warren / Bender / Monroe ... or ... Ulis / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Chandler

...who cares...pick one, and stick with it. If Warren is starting out poorly, or doesn't match up as favorably as JJ, then pull Warren after 5 minutes, put JJ in, and voila'. Same with the others...if we need Monroe's skillset more than Chandler's, but we are starting Chandler, then pull Chandler after a few minutes if he isn't fairing well, and put in Monroe. Same with Bender and/or Chriss...but pick one and stick with the as the starter; the other is 'on the block'.

Am I missing something? I'm not an NBA Coach, so maybe I am, but can't Triano 'coach' that way, rather than monkey with the starting unit every other game?

Once that is established, and the Trade deadline comes around, McD can monitor the market and see if there are any trades worth making. If not, move along to the draft/FA in the off-season and see if something happens there. At that point, McD has--assuming Booker is the only 'untouchable'--Warren, JJ, Bender, Chriss, 2018 Suns 1st, 2018 Mia 1st, 2020 Mil 1st (most likely), 2021 Mia 1st plus some filler pieces. He can make both picks, keep Warren or JJ, Bender or Chriss and still have 2 young players and 2 future picks to deal (3 if you count our 2019 1st).

[Mulhollanddrive]

In February it is likely McDonough will decide to either trade for All-Star or Tank for top 5 pick.

I like that he goes 100% it's just a matter of which one, it's really a no lose outcome.

At the moment I'm really liking the prospect of pairing Booker with a potential franchise C in Ayton / Bamba / Jackson.

[NavLDO]

I'm not sure we'd sign Hill to $40m if he was a free agent tomorrow.

But assuming we're desperate to fill the PG spot - Monroe and 2nd rounder/s

That would rule us out of FA in the off season but give us a look at how Booker plays next to a PG who can shoot as well as him from outside while playing both on and off ball.

I agree. All this talk about bringing in Hill, I think, is a desperate move to just move the needle a little bit. But I guarantee you, by the off season, the majority here would be like...

"Why did we sign Hill? All he did was help us to get to the late lottery, and now we don't have money in FA to sign any big name players! Stupid move!"

I think we just need to look beyond this season, and only sign Veterans that are 28 or younger, and are 'very good'...so I would only look at (not counting Westbrook, Curry, Irving, or Paul)

Jrue Holiday
Kemba Walker
Damian Lillard
John Wall

And since I'm not a good judge of talent, of all the young 'guns' out there, obviously only go after those with REAL promise. If not, go after the best PG coming out in the Draft; position ourselves to be able to take Sexton, or whoever ends up being the best PG in the draft. If we are picking too high, trade down, because PGs are slim pickin's in the NBA, yet Centers are a dime a dozen.

[Frank Lee]

The poll results really surprise me. I really am opposed to staying the course.

I hear you Gino...

What 'course' ?

We are bad, we draft, we develop ? rinse repeat ?

S***... that course has failed 10 times for every 1 success, may be 20. It just isn't a valid pathway.

Yet, the starry eyed drafters can place their hopes year end and out on the ceiling potentials of the next kid down the pike. Look at the F-n odds people. Its a longshot each year, and to think you will have successive favorable hits compound against you. Look at our own records... we have found one good guy out of what ... 10 selections... and one pretty decent role player ? Seriously... look at the last 10 first rounders. Granted, we haven't sniffed a #1-2-or 3... but thats all part of the risk.... the pingpoongs.

This timeline BS is a byproduct of reactionary management. The proactive attempts to improve have failed... leaving the consolation prize of draft picks to be over hyped, over sold, and over relied upon. To pretend this is some long term strategy and not what it really is... a shoulder shrugging put sugar in S**t pudding is what it is wait till next year can't do anything else but promote what we have facade of a plan.

Its time to pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Each year McWizard tries for FA's tries to trade... but ends up rebuffed and touting his teenagers. You know he fell to his knees in thanks when he heard the 'Timeline' mantra. Finally, someone named his last chance meandering rebuild.

Draft day is fun a hell. Rookies are a great addition, when they work out. And they work out better when they are joining a system in place. Our best teams have been the result of good picks... Adams, Davis, Stat, Marion, Majerle, Dumas, OMiller... all selected, all contributors. and crap... all picked almost 20 years ago They weren't rebuilds... they were plug ins. Plug ins given the platform to succeed.

The draft dynamic has changed. One and done-rs have corrupted the talent pool. Its just too F-n hard to rely on a draft as your sole method to rebuild. If you do get that one or two good guys... you have quickly build around them. Unfortunately, our front office has a penchant for shooting themselves in the foot. Deboning what little structure and system they had established. Toss in a coaching carousel and ... well... here it is.

Yet, its all we have right now. And with Book out for the next two months (my prediction), and a collection of misfits and draft picks... there is no real point to do anything because we really can't do anything and it really doesn't matter if we do anything.....but ..... you just wait till next year, once again.

so I guess...

I V O T E S T A Y T H E C O U R S E




But its time ... no more F-n around. You are wasting good years of your best player(s). Lightning in a bottle doesn't last long, and as seen yesterday, can blow up in your face.

[NavLDO]

The poll results really surprise me. I really am opposed to staying the course.

I call it the "Christmas Syndrome". People like opening new gifts every year, and the draft is just like that. We get to 'open' a new gift, because we don't know who it will be, and hey, if we can get two or three picks, well heck, who doesn't like MORE Christmas gifts...

...but over time, those 'new toys' aren't fun and shiny anymore, so let's 'give' (trade) them away for more picks, so we can get more 'presents'.

But me? I'm tired of, since 2011, picking in the lottery, which means we didn't partake in the Playoffs. I chose option "B"--Trade away our '18 1st/Jackson for the best player available.

It doesn't have to be JJ, per se, since Warren might be able to fetch a lot more with the contract he signed...IDK. I'm torn because Warren is my favorite player, but I'm not so naive to the fact that his 3PT shot is officially abysmal, and his Defense will likely never be more than 'mediocre'. Not to mention that JJ is actually just 3+ months younger than Booker, whereas Warren is 3+ years OLDER than Booker.

If Booker is our 'Cornerstone', then we should build around him and be willing to take the 'lumps' involved in JJ's development, as well as Bender, who has the higher ceiling than Chriss.

A package including some, but NOT all of--Warren + Chriss + Mia '18 1st + Mia '21 1st + Mil '20 1st should net us one of:

Fultz
Russell
Fox
D. Smith Jr.
F. Ntilinkina
Mudiay
J. Murray

Then, with our 1st (or Mia's, if they are bad enough, whatever), we draft our center of the future. This class is loaded with good ones...

Ayton
Bagley
Bamba
Williams
Carter
Richards
McCoy
Robinson
Metu
Wiley

I know that Ayton is oodles better than Wiley, but you get my point; there are quite a few to choose from, and the top 6 likely go in the lottery, so we will have a choice anywhere we or Miami lands in the lottery.

Step 1: Commit to a plan/starting roster from positions 2-4
Step 2: Trade 'left over' assets for best young PG
Step 3: Draft Best Available Center

It really can be that simple to get us back on track. Positions in Steps 2-3 can be switched if someone like Boogie becomes available...

[Saberestar]

The poll results really surprise me. I really am opposed to staying the course.

I hear you Gino...

What 'course' ?

We are bad, we draft, we develop ? rinse repeat ?

...This timeline BS is a byproduct of reactionary management. The proactive attempts to improve have failed... leaving the consolation prize of draft picks to be over hyped, over sold, and over relied upon. To pretend this is some long term strategy and not what it really is... a shoulder shrugging put sugar in S**t pudding is what it is wait till next year can't do anything else but promote what we have facade of a plan.

... there is no real point to do anything because we really can't do anything and it really doesn't matter if we do anything.....but ..... you just wait till next year, once again.

I agree completely.

I have lost all my faith in McDonough. Our team do not progress at all.

What are we waiting for? We need to get players that know how to play the game. It is not about age, it is about talent.

We failed picking in the draft and handle bad the relationships with veteran players. Rebuilding with the wrong players will not gives us to a good place...every year we are worse than the year before.

[NavLDO]

I'm fine with Tyler Ulis at Starting pg. Im not impressed with any of the pgs in the draft or i just dont like their fit. I think he fits well next to Booker and it cant hurt that their freinds. We dont need a star at every position and i think his defense vs Kyrie was better than a lot of all star pg's i've seen. He plays smart, can bring the ball up the floor and its only his second season.. I actually think of all the players on the team i think Ulis makes the least mistakes. That is of course unless someone like Conley becomes available...

But then we have a 31 YO PG, playing with 20-24 YO players. They develop playing under one PG, then in 3-4 years, have to adjust to another. I doubt it's that hard, but still, I'd much rather trade for one of the younger PGs, or Draft one. You say you aren't impressed with any in this year's draft, but which ones are you looking at? Ultimately, we don't know who is going to declare, but just based upon the relatively 'weak' PG class, there's a chance more come out? Here's the 2017 RSCI PG class...

6th - Trevon Duval - Duke
7th - Colin Sexton - Bama
16th - Lonnie Walker - the "U" (Two-way guard)
20th - Trae Young - Okla
23rd - Jaylen Hands - UCLA
24th - Quade Green - UK

Trae Young looks like the real deal--nearly 9 APG and 29 PPG? And Trevon Duval, if he can fix his 3PT shot, is putting out 7 APG. I think there's a good mix of talent there. Plus, I'm sure there will be an upperclassmen here or there, as well.

Are any better than Ulis? IDK...Sexton, Duval, and Young probably are...

I agree we don't need a 'star' at every position, but we need competency and consistency. Right now, we have neither, and with Booker out indefinitely, we may as well 'punt' to the draft/FA, and start thinking how we can best build around him. Hopefully JJ is one answer and Bender is another, and one of which turn into a Booker-level talent. OR...we role with Warren, who I believe is right there with Booker, but just has a broken 3 PT shot.

Overall, we probably need to trade for a star at either PG or C, but one that is not over 30 like Conley...

[RunDogGun]

I'm fine with Tyler Ulis at Starting pg. Im not impressed with any of the pgs in the draft or i just dont like their fit. I think he fits well next to Booker and it cant hurt that their freinds. We dont need a star at every position and i think his defense vs Kyrie was better than a lot of all star pg's i've seen. He plays smart, can bring the ball up the floor and its only his second season.. I actually think of all the players on the team i think Ulis makes the least mistakes. That is of course unless someone like Conley becomes available...

But then we have a 31 YO PG, playing with 20-24 YO players. They develop playing under one PG, then in 3-4 years, have to adjust to another. I doubt it's that hard, but still, I'd much rather trade for one of the younger PGs, or Draft one. You say you aren't impressed with any in this year's draft, but which ones are you looking at? Ultimately, we don't know who is going to declare, but just based upon the relatively 'weak' PG class, there's a chance more come out? Here's the 2017 RSCI PG class...

6th - Trevon Duval - Duke
7th - Colin Sexton - Bama
16th - Lonnie Walker - the "U" (Two-way guard)
20th - Trae Young - Okla
23rd - Jaylen Hands - UCLA
24th - Quade Green - UK

Trae Young looks like the real deal--nearly 9 APG and 29 PPG? And Trevon Duval, if he can fix his 3PT shot, is putting out 7 APG. I think there's a good mix of talent there. Plus, I'm sure there will be an upperclassmen here or there, as well.

Are any better than Ulis? IDK...Sexton, Duval, and Young probably are...

I agree we don't need a 'star' at every position, but we need competency and consistency. Right now, we have neither, and with Booker out indefinitely, we may as well 'punt' to the draft/FA, and start thinking how we can best build around him. Hopefully JJ is one answer and Bender is another, and one of which turn into a Booker-level talent. OR...we role with Warren, who I believe is right there with Booker, but just has a broken 3 PT shot.

Overall, we probably need to trade for a star at either PG or C, but one that is not over 30 like Conley...

We got Steve Nash back at age 30. I think the age part isn’t so much an issue as leadership.

[WeekapaugGroove]

A package including some, but NOT all of--Warren + Chriss + Mia '18 1st + Mia '21 1st + Mil '20 1st should net us one of:

Fultz
Russell
Fox
D. Smith Jr.
F. Ntilinkina
Mudiay
J. Murray

Hell if they can get some of the guys you mention then I'm all for it.

I think the poll results are as they are because of the vague nature of the question. If a trade netted a young contractually controllable guy then I would guess a lot of people would be down for a trade. The problem is most of the "stars" that have been available are guys in the last year or two of their deals who frankly don't want to be here; those are the types I don't have interest in bringing in.

For instance I had no desire to trade for Paul George; he's a great player but I knew he would bolt in a year. I had interest in Kyrie this offseason but now that I've heard whispers that his camp was blocking that trade I get why it wasn't done. I was in favor of trading the farm for Porzingis and hell I would have included booker. I was also in favor of targeting Drummond because of his age and the fact he's under contract long term and that is looking like it would have been a great move.

My point is it's all very circumstantial.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm a hard no on Doc Rivers. Probably doesn't matter because I can't see any way Doc would want to coach a rebuilding team so it's probably a moot point. He's a good people manager but I don't think he's that great of a x's and o's coach.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm a hard no on Doc Rivers. Probably doesn't matter because I can't see any way Doc would want to coach a rebuilding team so it's probably a moot point. He's a good people manager but I don't think he's that great of a x's and o's coach.

I'm also a solid no. It just doesn't fit the mold of what we should be looking for. Brad Stevens and Quin Snyder are the prototypes, in my view. And frankly, I like what I've seen from Triano so far as well. I'd take him over Rivers.

Plenty of grizzled old coaches flame out quickly on that last hurrah when they realize that (1) they haven't really worked for years and forgot how much it sucks, (2) they probably aren't going to win quickly, so why look like they're trying so hard, and (3) that paycheck is the same no matter what they do.

Give me someone fresh and hungry (Snyder/Stevens) or at least humbled and professional (Triano).

[kennydorglas]

Any interest in Doc Rivers if the Clippers decide to let him go after the season?

He's taken and developed some youngsters in his time in Boston and LA. Has Championship experience, defence orientated, actually draws up plays and is known to hold players responsible.

Also has the Boston ties to McD as well.

Could be interesting.

No, he was terrible in Boston before he got the big 3. Bill Simmons, the biggest Celtics homer out there hated him. He only became a "great coach" with KG and Allen playing with Pierce, and of course the ring to many suddenly means he is a great coach. Clippers fans can't stand him either. No thanks.

Managing KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo was no slouch tho.
He was the right type of coach for them... not that he was really good, but just what they needed most.

And of course the innovative defense by Thibs played a huge part on that too.

[NavLDO]

I'm fine with Tyler Ulis at Starting pg. Im not impressed with any of the pgs in the draft or i just dont like their fit. I think he fits well next to Booker and it cant hurt that their freinds. We dont need a star at every position and i think his defense vs Kyrie was better than a lot of all star pg's i've seen. He plays smart, can bring the ball up the floor and its only his second season.. I actually think of all the players on the team i think Ulis makes the least mistakes. That is of course unless someone like Conley becomes available...

But then we have a 31 YO PG, playing with 20-24 YO players. They develop playing under one PG, then in 3-4 years, have to adjust to another. I doubt it's that hard, but still, I'd much rather trade for one of the younger PGs, or Draft one. You say you aren't impressed with any in this year's draft, but which ones are you looking at? Ultimately, we don't know who is going to declare, but just based upon the relatively 'weak' PG class, there's a chance more come out? Here's the 2017 RSCI PG class...

6th - Trevon Duval - Duke
7th - Colin Sexton - Bama
16th - Lonnie Walker - the "U" (Two-way guard)
20th - Trae Young - Okla
23rd - Jaylen Hands - UCLA
24th - Quade Green - UK

Trae Young looks like the real deal--nearly 9 APG and 29 PPG? And Trevon Duval, if he can fix his 3PT shot, is putting out 7 APG. I think there's a good mix of talent there. Plus, I'm sure there will be an upperclassmen here or there, as well.

Are any better than Ulis? IDK...Sexton, Duval, and Young probably are...

I agree we don't need a 'star' at every position, but we need competency and consistency. Right now, we have neither, and with Booker out indefinitely, we may as well 'punt' to the draft/FA, and start thinking how we can best build around him. Hopefully JJ is one answer and Bender is another, and one of which turn into a Booker-level talent. OR...we role with Warren, who I believe is right there with Booker, but just has a broken 3 PT shot.

Overall, we probably need to trade for a star at either PG or C, but one that is not over 30 like Conley...

We got Steve Nash back at age 30. I think the age part isn’t so much an issue as leadership.

I'm more talking about the age 'difference'. Every player we had back then was age 22 or older. Our best player isn't even 22 yet. Our best player then (Marion) was only 4 years younger, then you had Stat (8 years) and Johnson (7 years). I'm talking about Conley being 9-10 years older than JJ, Booker, Bender, and Chriss. Not to mention the fact that Nash was being brought into a team that had experienced a mere 'blip' in success, as opposed to Conley coming into a ****.

I agree, though, age by itself is not a big deal, if you have a team that has a couple of vets that are, say, in their mid-to-late 20s that are part of your core, and you bring in a 'Conley', then that's fine. But in our case, we wouldn't be accomplishing anything productive.

[jcsunsfan]

I tend to like a broad range of ages on a team, with older vets who will cycle out and younger players that will move in.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I tend to like a broad range of ages on a team, with older vets who will cycle out and younger players that will move in.

As do I, which is why I'm sure you and I will enjoy McD's tenure more and more as time goes on.

[RaisingArizona]

I've made a huge 180 on this team this year. Outside of Booker/Warren, I don't see any long-term pieces in place.

Our PG situation disgusts me.
Ulis is way too freaking small to start against starting PGs. He get's roasted every game.
James is G league fodder.

Our PF situation is troubling. They're young, but they are nowhere near close to being consistent contributors.
Chriss took a major step backwards. He continues to make stupid fouls and put us in bad spots defensively.
Bender really hasn't shown me anything since he's been here. I don't know that he has the motor it takes to make it here.

At C, they're all decent players at times. I still think Moose is our best option but he seems to be out the door.

Now with Booker out for some time, we're going to be the worst team in the league and the Ls will be a nightly occurrence.

I suppose we stay put until the summer now besides minor stuff like dealing with Len and Moose.

I just don't see an avenue to short term success.

I've been patient but after 8 years of no playoffs, it's wearing thing.

**** do something already. ****.

McD has had chances and chose not to do anything.

The one he took was on Knight...

Hard to defend the guy anymore.

I really think Booker saved his job.

But there's going to come a time when that's not enough.

[bwgood77]

It amazes me people give up on Jackson this quickly. I know he's been pretty out of control on offense often, but he's been in the league less than two months.

I'm not surprised people have written off Bender and Chriss, though I think it's still early to do so.

After not seeing Bender much at all last year, I'm quite happy that he has shot the 3 well and shown defense agility. I think his decision making his speeding up, slowly but surely. There have been a few games where he has shown more aggressiveness, so I hope more of those come, and then at some point they come regularly.

I think without Booker, as tough as that is for the team, it will open up more opportunities for guys like Jackson, Bender and Chriss to pick up some more of the offensive load and they will naturally get more shots (unless Ulis and James take them all). So hopefully they step up and take advantage.