King of Empty stats

[Big Mac Biyombo]

Andray Blatche

I don't know if a guy who averaged 10/5 for his career is really a good example of empty stats. He was never even an above average starter.

Blatche in his "peak" years with the Wiz was going for about 14/7 and 17/8/1.5 (blocks). Just looking at that those statlines and the fact that he was a still very young 7 footer, you'd think he was a future franchise pillar. But in reality his nice looking stats didn't come close to reflecting his actual play.

That's fair. I don't remember him putting up those numbers. There's probably a reason for that.

I remember watching him in the FIBA Asia qualifiers a few years ago and he was just demolishing those dudes. He just looked like a man among boys.

[dc]

Kevin Durant

Edgy.

One of the greatest players of all time. Four time scoring champ. MVP. Finals MVP. Arguably the most skilled and versatile 7 footer of all time.

Then there's sorta the fact that OKC has umm.......been a worse team w/o him, with a good enough sample size to prove it.

[dhsilv2]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Antawn Jamison
Ricky Davis
Andray Blatche
Glenn Robinson

Davis is a great addition!

[Big Mac Biyombo]

Kevin Durant

Edgy.

One of the greatest players of all time. Four time scoring champ. MVP. Finals MVP. Arguably the most skilled and versatile 7 footer of all time.

Then there's sorta the fact that OKC has umm.......been a worse team w/o him, with a good enough sample size to prove it.

They went from perennial contenders to a borderline playoff team without him. I think that alone shows his stats are far from empty.

[12footrim]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Mitch Richmond
Tom Chambers
Wiggins
DeRozan

At least the first few off the top of my head.

Check DeMars TS and PER. plus the fact that his team wins 50 games a year... how the **** does that equal to empty stats?

The last few years, sure. I think this guy offered him up because he has had seasons that would fit with what I was looking for. No one is saying any of these guys always had bad seasons or will never put up an efficient season.

I think you can both say a guy like Kobe was great most of his career but at the end fit when he was shooting 35% or whatever he was still as the #1 option had one of these seasons where he had no business being a #1.

[316Hornets]

Edgy.

One of the greatest players of all time. Four time scoring champ. MVP. Finals MVP. Arguably the most skilled and versatile 7 footer of all time.

Then there's sorta the fact that OKC has umm.......been a worse team w/o him, with a good enough sample size to prove it.

They went from perennial contenders to a borderline playoff team without him. I think that alone shows his stats are far from empty.

Who did they replace him with?

[12footrim]

Kevin Martin. From 2005-2014 his career average RAPM is 0.1. Offensively he's good but can be a pretty extreme ball stopper. He's a good three point shooter but his shooting doesn't have that much gravity because he's slow to get into his shot. His poor defense takes away from anything positive on the offensive side of the ball.

I always thought Kevin Love put up empty stats back in his Minnesota days.

And I’m not just saying that because he didn’t win, I just don’t think he had any impact in the game.

He mostly scored off spot up 3s or offensive putbacks, had a decent post game but doesn’t have the lift to finish strong at the rim and would often get rejected.

You’d figure a guy averaging 26 ppg, 14 rpg, 4 apg would be dominant but he wasn’t. He just never took over games like most stars do

Love was a top 10 guy in RAPM in 2013-2014, he was very clearly a high impact player at his best. Over his whole career in Minnesota he had a 2.9 RAPM which illustrates a clear impact player but not always a great one.

This

[Big Mac Biyombo]

Then there's sorta the fact that OKC has umm.......been a worse team w/o him, with a good enough sample size to prove it.

They went from perennial contenders to a borderline playoff team without him. I think that alone shows his stats are far from empty.

Who did they replace him with?

They allegedly had a league MVP so that should be enough for 50 wins. Not to mention a guy who is a lock for this year's All-Star game in Oladipo. Plus a top 10 Center in Adams.

Then this year they've added two All-Stars and are still below .500.

Let's not forget the year Westbrook got hurt and KD went on to win the MVP and led them to a 2 seed. A stark contrast to the year KD got hurt and they missed the playoffs.

The lengths you people will go to discredit the guy have passed the levels that Miami LeBron was at. It's actually just funny at this point.

[Rob Diaz]

Advanced stats have eliminated the idea of "empty stats" IMO. It was much easier to claim a player was putting up empty traditional stats prior to the rise of advanced metrics and tracking stats.

The vast amount of data and metrics we have helps put everything into proper context nowadays. It's much easier to poke holes in the defense of a big man who gets blocks or a guard who gets steals, but has minimal impact on team defense, for example.

We also have several different on/off metrics that help identify net positive players when they're used properly(unfortunately, most people still don't know how to use these numbers and use silly examples to dismiss their accuracy).

[PistolPeteJR]

OP, can you define what you mean by empty stats? Like are Spencer Dinwiddie's numbers empty because his team sucks? Or is it more along the lines of Devin Booker who's generally believed to be a very good player (on O), yet the team record doesn't reflect it?

[Danny11]

I see people mentioning guards and wings. Rightly so because they are more prone to chucking and inefficiency
What about an empy-stat big man? A big man inefficient volume scorer that can't defend nor contribute in any other meaningful way

Brook Lopez?

I see your Bropez and raise you Jokafor

[dc]

Then there's sorta the fact that OKC has umm.......been a worse team w/o him, with a good enough sample size to prove it.

They went from perennial contenders to a borderline playoff team without him. I think that alone shows his stats are far from empty.

Who did they replace him with?

That's beside the point.

If a someone is an empty stats player then, by definition, you should be able to replace him with just about anyone and your team shouldn't have any major dropoff.

[HeartBreakKid]

adrian dantley

[Mylie10]

I need some help, who are the all time kings of empty stat seasons?

Devin Booker last year for example was one of the more hollow stat lines I've seen. 22ppg and only a 14.9 PER /.53% true shooting both under league average.


Edit: Let me clarify. Guys that are getting all star appearances or averaging 20+ ppg but have like a PER of 15 or are shooting under .500 true shooting or whatever like Kobe was at the end. Basically anyone getting accolades or a #1 banana role that really can't credibly do it justice.

Carmelo Anthony wears the crown

[316Hornets]

They went from perennial contenders to a borderline playoff team without him. I think that alone shows his stats are far from empty.

Who did they replace him with?

They allegedly had a league MVP so that should be enough for 50 wins. Not to mention a guy who is a lock for this year's All-Star game in Oladipo. Plus a top 10 Center in Adams.

Then this year they've added two All-Stars and are still below .500.

Let's not forget the year Westbrook got hurt and KD went on to win the MVP and led them to a 2 seed. A stark contrast to the year KD got hurt and they missed the playoffs.

The lengths you people will go to discredit the guy have passed the levels that Miami LeBron was at. It's actually just funny at this point.

To be fair, I was speaking more specifically to this year.

[og15]

I always thought Kevin Love put up empty stats back in his Minnesota days.

And I’m not just saying that because he didn’t win, I just don’t think he had any impact in the game.

He mostly scored off spot up 3s or offensive putbacks, had a decent post game but doesn’t have the lift to finish strong at the rim and would often get rejected.

You’d figure a guy averaging 26 ppg, 14 rpg, 4 apg would be dominant but he wasn’t. He just never took over games like most stars do

Yeah, when he was 25, the Wolves had a 40-42, even though the second best player was Nikola Pekovic.

What record were you expecting for that team? 50 wins?

Love 100% had an impact.

Yeah, I wouldn't ever consider him or Harden in this sort of conversation with the efficiency they score at ancillary stats. You don't get 14 rebounds a game just by accident or 11 assist.

Yea, Love is a terrible example, that team was not even that bad, he definitely made them better too. A 500 team while having injuries, no wing creators, and didn't Corey Brewer start?

[binjumper]

Russel Westbrook is the king of empty stats

[Yuri Vaultin]

I'll throw Wil Barton's name out there. He fills the stat sheet, sure but is usually a detriment to his team. His defense is usually bad and he is a black hole on offense. Usually great numbers on lousy +/-.

[Big Mac Biyombo]

Just to give credit:

Andre Drummond was an empty stats guy, but has really turned a corner this year. Glad to see that.

Edit: Sixers fans; don't forget that Colangelo drafted Terrence Ross over this guy. That was far from his most egregious move as Toronto's GM. You guys need to run him out of town before he has a chance to ruin the immense promise your squad has.

[RGM_SU]

While I don't think he is a king of empty stats, I do think that stats (traditional and advanced) overrate Kevin Love's impact. There is a reason why during his time in Minnesota the T'wolves year after year had a worse record than what they should have gotten based on their point-differential / SRS.