Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[RaisingArizona]

Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.

I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.

That's exactly how it'll play out

[RaisingArizona]

[sunsbum]

Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.

I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.

I'll bring along ADs medical history with the suns training staff and Devin Booker who's a far better fit to a guy that needs space to work than Davis.

Y'all won 36 games with 2 MVP candidates!?

[NavLDO]

I can't believe some of these proposals that I'm reading. George Hill? Trading to get Goran, who publicly demanded a trade and would probably go ring chasing at the end of his deal since he'll be old by then? Mike Conley? Not to mention all of these guys remove the possibility of a max player over the next 2 offseasons. That is just insane. None of them get us into the playoffs even as the 8 seed, and each costs us the chance to take a longshot pursuit of someone like Cousins or Capela or whoever (and I'd rather take the longshot at either of those guys than pay Mike Conley $30 mil a year and George Hill $20 mil a year).

The real truth here is that we don't NEED to get a PG to pair with Booker this year. It would be nice if there was one who didn't cost a lot to get and who had a low or expiring salary, but that guy doesn't exist. Furthermore, the most valuable SG in basketball is James Harden, who was also asked to create for and carry an NBA offense in a PG-like fashion, which turned him into the player he is now. While it might not be fair to make Booker do that at 21, it will allow him to develop on that end and in that fashion. The whole, "New Kobe" mantra has been misguided. Kobe would not be THAT valuable in the league today relative to a guy like Harden. We should want him to become Harden, and in my opinion he has shown enough playmaking to potentially become that.

All of that is besides the point that we really do need a top 5 pick this season, so adding a PG who helps us win today isn't necessarily great for us. Getting one of Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Bamba is a big freaking deal for this team. Besides that, we still need Ulis to get his minutes and improve since he is probably our future long-term 2nd PG no matter what happens. We can address starting PG this upcoming offseason for a bargain vet or through the draft or both. That Miami pick should let us to get somebody like Sexton or Young, who I like. Duval also is there. None are sure things but all have the potential to be a starting 1 in the league. If Sexton is projected to go 7th or so like he currently is, we can always package the Miami and Milwaukee picks to move up if needed.

So, you had with the first two paragraphs, but lost me on the 3rd...to a point. It would be NICE to have a top 5 pick, but it's not critical. I'd rather have Williams or Carter or Jaren Jackson or Sexton in the 6-10 range, then draft a THIRD SF in Doncic, or take a chance on Porter. I'm not big on waiting/hoping a player isn't injury prone with a top 5 pick.

"...but, but, but it worked out for Philly with Embiid!!" Yeah, and how long did that take. For every Embiid, there's a Greg Oden.

And I hate to say it, but rewind 9-12 months ago, fans were saying the same thing about JJ and Fultz, and the year before that it was Simmons or Ingram...point is, none of these guys are going to turn this franchise around immediately.

But I agree with everything you said in the first two paragraphs; in fact, you said it better than I in my post about Dragic. But paying anyone over the age of 27, IMO, is foolish at this point. I'm pretty open to whatever road McD thinks is best, and hey, if drafting Doncic is the way to go, because we are trading Warren and JJ away for a PG and/or PF and/or C, then great. My only point is we have 2 SFs, 2 PFs, and no plan at PG or C. That's not going to work.

So, if we continue to lose, and do not do anything, and draft Doncic, I think I'll lose my mind...well, let's say I'll lose my mind if Doncic is still ours by the end of the 1st Rd; trades can always happen, but you get my point.

But paying $25-35M on a 28+YO player is foolish, and I totally agree with you on that, because just like Ayton or Bamba isn't going to move the needle all the way, neither is a Conley or Dragic. But paying, say, Conley $30M, just so he can help us win 5-8 more games and drop us from the say 4th pick to the 12th pick, is not a great strategy...

...because similar to above...for every Booker and Warren, there is a Marshall and a Clark...

[thamadkant]

Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.

I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.

I'll bring along ADs medical history with the suns training staff and Devin Booker who's a far better fit to a guy that needs space to work than Davis.

Y'all won 36 games with 2 MVP candidates!?

Just had to be the fun police don't you.

Suns would kill for AD injury history and all

[pelifan]

Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.

I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.

I'll bring along ADs medical history with the suns training staff and Devin Booker who's a far better fit to a guy that needs space to work than Davis.

Y'all won 36 games with 2 MVP candidates!?

I don't know if I can order enough room service for the Suns training staff.

[AtheJ415]

Anybody who would rather have Williams or Jackson than doncic needs their head examined imo.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Mulhollanddrive]

Wonder if Chandler assumed he would be traded and now doesn't want to be here.

[pelifan]

It's amazing to me y'all are already on part 4 and are 18 pages in 5 days after the the thread the was posted. That's how you know it's going to be a long season

Spoiler:

Also that the Suns have lots of movable assets and flexibility, so not all bad.

[thamadkant]

It's amazing to me y'all are already on part 4 and are 18 pages in 5 days after the the thread the was posted. That's how you know it's going to be a long season

Spoiler:

Also that the Suns have lots of movable assets and flexibility, so not all bad.

One thing McD Suns GM does well...is make moves like its NBA 2K except trade override is switched off.

[Kerrsed]

It's amazing to me y'all are already on part 4 and are 18 pages in 5 days after the the thread the was posted. That's how you know it's going to be a long season

Spoiler:

Also that the Suns have lots of movable assets and flexibility, so not all bad.

I think we went through a thread and a half before Watson even got fired. Setting league worst records kinda does that to you.

[sunsbum]

It's amazing to me y'all are already on part 4 and are 18 pages in 5 days after the the thread the was posted. That's how you know it's going to be a long season

Spoiler:

Also that the Suns have lots of movable assets and flexibility, so not all bad.

We got an active board homeboy

[pelifan]

It's amazing to me y'all are already on part 4 and are 18 pages in 5 days after the the thread the was posted. That's how you know it's going to be a long season

Spoiler:

Also that the Suns have lots of movable assets and flexibility, so not all bad.

We got an active board homeboy

I know. I like it over here. Might move in

[NavLDO]

I can't believe some of these proposals that I'm reading. George Hill? Trading to get Goran, who publicly demanded a trade and would probably go ring chasing at the end of his deal since he'll be old by then? Mike Conley? Not to mention all of these guys remove the possibility of a max player over the next 2 offseasons. That is just insane. None of them get us into the playoffs even as the 8 seed, and each costs us the chance to take a longshot pursuit of someone like Cousins or Capela or whoever (and I'd rather take the longshot at either of those guys than pay Mike Conley $30 mil a year and George Hill $20 mil a year).

The real truth here is that we don't NEED to get a PG to pair with Booker this year. It would be nice if there was one who didn't cost a lot to get and who had a low or expiring salary, but that guy doesn't exist. Furthermore, the most valuable SG in basketball is James Harden, who was also asked to create for and carry an NBA offense in a PG-like fashion, which turned him into the player he is now. While it might not be fair to make Booker do that at 21, it will allow him to develop on that end and in that fashion. The whole, "New Kobe" mantra has been misguided. Kobe would not be THAT valuable in the league today relative to a guy like Harden. We should want him to become Harden, and in my opinion he has shown enough playmaking to potentially become that.

All of that is besides the point that we really do need a top 5 pick this season, so adding a PG who helps us win today isn't necessarily great for us. Getting one of Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Bamba is a big freaking deal for this team. Besides that, we still need Ulis to get his minutes and improve since he is probably our future long-term 2nd PG no matter what happens. We can address starting PG this upcoming offseason for a bargain vet or through the draft or both. That Miami pick should let us to get somebody like Sexton or Young, who I like. Duval also is there. None are sure things but all have the potential to be a starting 1 in the league. If Sexton is projected to go 7th or so like he currently is, we can always package the Miami and Milwaukee picks to move up if needed.

I agree the Suns need a top 5 pick this coming draft - the names you mention would be adding that last game changer

But I also don't think Booker is ready to be James Harden. I think he needs to be a 2 guard first and really get better at that, defense, etc.

So, a guy like George Hill for the rest of this year and next year would be solid for Booker at the PG

Yes, might be taking a risk of winning more games but not sure how many more. George Hill is probably better than Ulis/James - but he is not an all star. I just don't see the team jumping from say projection of 26 wins or so up to 35 with Hill.

Monroe/Daniels for Hill -if they want a second rounder, give them Torontos

No, no, no, no, no...aaarghh...

(sorry for my rant) But please...PLEASE think about this. Hill is guaranteed $19M next year. Add that to the $28M tied up in Knight/Chandler (who NOBODY wants at those salaries), and that puts us at $47M. Then Warren's extension kicks in, so there's another $11M, and Dudley gets $9.5M, so now we are at almost $68M, and we still need to pay JJ ($6M), Bender ($4.5M), Williams ($5.5M), Booker and Chriss at $3.3M a piece now we are sitting at over $90M. That leaves 5 slots, a cheap owner, and we haven't even drafted our top 5 pick, or Miami's, likely, 10-15 pick, which will cost us about another $10M, so there's $100M. And, say, we decide to keep Ulis and Reed, so we're at $103M...oops, we just passed the Salary Cap for 2018. (The projected Cap on Spotrac is $101M)

So, which big name FA would you like to attempt to sign for -$2M???

We need to stop with the piece-meal stuff. I we sign a FA, and spend over $2-3M on said FA, that FA BETTER be a friggin' rock star. Those are the ONLY FAs we should be looking at between right now and the beginning of next season.

I know we (not 'you' BobbieL, but 'we') like to live in this magical place, (usually only found in Orlando, LA, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Paris, and where ever else I'm missing where there is a Disney World/Land) called Fantasy Land, and think a team, say Denver is going to trade us a 2018 Lottery 1st Rd pick, and, say, Mudiay and Faried for BK and Chandler, but it's not happening.

We can only afford ONE player in the off-season; preferably, a game-changer at the Center or PG positions under the age of 27. I know...easier said than done, which is why we've been collecting assets, and yes, JJ is an asset. As is Warren. Booker is the ONLY untouchable on the roster, IMO, but more likely, Warren, JJ, Bender, and Chriss are in that boat too, which is silly.

McD needs to hit a homerun this off-season. He has Warren, JJ, Bender, and Chriss...plus likely 2 x Lottery picks this year, Miami's 2021 Unprotected pick, and likely, Milwaukee's Unprotected 2020 pick. That's 8 assets to choose from to make a gangbusters type trade. The only thing he has to consider, IMO, is if he trades Warren, he keeps JJ, and vice versa; if he trades Bender, he keeps Chriss, and vice versa; and if he trades our pick this year, he keeps Miami's 2018 1st Rd pick, and vice versa. Other than that, there is NO reason e cannot bring home a game changing Veteran at the PG/C position, and whichever is left, he picks in the draft, or vice versa. Is it really that hard?

PG / Booker / Warren or JJ / Chriss or Bender / C

THEN we can start 'tooling' from there. All this ding-donging around is getting weary...but back on point...

...NO OLD VETERANS...

[LukasBMW]

How much cap space will we have this summer if we stand pat?

-We let Monroe expire
-TJ kicks in
-We don't resign Len or James.

I'm calculating about $20 mil?

[sunsbum]

It's amazing to me y'all are already on part 4 and are 18 pages in 5 days after the the thread the was posted. That's how you know it's going to be a long season

Spoiler:

Also that the Suns have lots of movable assets and flexibility, so not all bad.

We got an active board homeboy

I know. I like it over here. Might move in

Bring AD and Boogie with you, first drink is on me.

[NavLDO]

I can't believe some of these proposals that I'm reading. George Hill? Trading to get Goran, who publicly demanded a trade and would probably go ring chasing at the end of his deal since he'll be old by then? Mike Conley? Not to mention all of these guys remove the possibility of a max player over the next 2 offseasons. That is just insane. None of them get us into the playoffs even as the 8 seed, and each costs us the chance to take a longshot pursuit of someone like Cousins or Capela or whoever (and I'd rather take the longshot at either of those guys than pay Mike Conley $30 mil a year and George Hill $20 mil a year).

The real truth here is that we don't NEED to get a PG to pair with Booker this year. It would be nice if there was one who didn't cost a lot to get and who had a low or expiring salary, but that guy doesn't exist. Furthermore, the most valuable SG in basketball is James Harden, who was also asked to create for and carry an NBA offense in a PG-like fashion, which turned him into the player he is now. While it might not be fair to make Booker do that at 21, it will allow him to develop on that end and in that fashion. The whole, "New Kobe" mantra has been misguided. Kobe would not be THAT valuable in the league today relative to a guy like Harden. We should want him to become Harden, and in my opinion he has shown enough playmaking to potentially become that.

All of that is besides the point that we really do need a top 5 pick this season, so adding a PG who helps us win today isn't necessarily great for us. Getting one of Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Bamba is a big freaking deal for this team. Besides that, we still need Ulis to get his minutes and improve since he is probably our future long-term 2nd PG no matter what happens. We can address starting PG this upcoming offseason for a bargain vet or through the draft or both. That Miami pick should let us to get somebody like Sexton or Young, who I like. Duval also is there. None are sure things but all have the potential to be a starting 1 in the league. If Sexton is projected to go 7th or so like he currently is, we can always package the Miami and Milwaukee picks to move up if needed.

Just curious what max player you have in mind? You are expecting a top tier max player to want to come to the Suns? I want a target you think is someone we could go after and get. I know in theory some max player in 19 is what we "should" do but it's easy to talk about and not easy to do.

I was about to say the same thing. There’s no use in clearing max space for no reason when chances are star max players aren’t going to come here.

If you do want to attract players like that, you have to have a couple of decent veterans on the team and guys like Dragic or Conley could help with that. Figure out the $$ situation after making sure the Suns are even an atttractive FA destination first.

But it's not just Max players...how about players that will grow with our team, instead of the next stop gap option. Those that have posted on these couple of pages are ok with TRADING for George Hill, but can't think a little further to realize that we could TRADE for a younger player?

Why not...

Kemba Walker? Age 27
Jrue Holiday? Age 27
Ricky Rubio? Age 27

Or, how about we go for a bigger name youngster like Fultz, Fox, Ntilikina, etc. If you're worried about Booker, surely he can understand wanting to build a young team up together full of high-level talent.

But spending $20M on an average player, that will tie our hands in FA...OR trades...for this next off-season isn't wise, IMO. NOBODY is going to want to trade for a $19M per George Hill, well, except some of our fans for some reason...

I get wanting to make our destination attractive, but having an average PG, with no money to spend on other FAs is not going to be 'attractive' to any FAs wanting to come here; what's going to be attractive is a young, exciting roster.

[jcsunsfan]

Wow! That is insane!!!!!!

Philly is so dumb! And the Nets aren't much brighter. They could showcase him and then totally see teams outbid them!

Exactly. And Fishi, you are correct, his untradeability was not about his play—at least not all about that—but about the weird contract situation.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Who is Fishi in this exchange?

lilfishi22

[AtheJ415]

Just curious what max player you have in mind? You are expecting a top tier max player to want to come to the Suns? I want a target you think is someone we could go after and get. I know in theory some max player in 19 is what we "should" do but it's easy to talk about and not easy to do.

I was about to say the same thing. There’s no use in clearing max space for no reason when chances are star max players aren’t going to come here.

If you do want to attract players like that, you have to have a couple of decent veterans on the team and guys like Dragic or Conley could help with that. Figure out the $$ situation after making sure the Suns are even an atttractive FA destination first.

But it's not just Max players...how about players that will grow with our team, instead of the next stop gap option. Those that have posted on these couple of pages are ok with TRADING for George Hill, but can't think a little further to realize that we could TRADE for a younger player?

Why not...

Kemba Walker? Age 27
Jrue Holiday? Age 27
Ricky Rubio? Age 27

Or, how about we go for a bigger name youngster like Fultz, Fox, Ntilikina, etc. If you're worried about Booker, surely he can understand wanting to build a young team up together full of high-level talent.

But spending $20M on an average player, that will tie our hands in FA...OR trades...for this next off-season isn't wise, IMO. NOBODY is going to want to trade for a $19M per George Hill, well, except some of our fans for some reason...

I get wanting to make our destination attractive, but having an average PG, with no money to spend on other FAs is not going to be 'attractive' to any FAs wanting to come here; what's going to be attractive is a young, exciting roster.

Pretty simple to me. You go for Boogie. He likely says no, but you wait until he says no. Then you go for Capela, who is on a mini-max. If Houston matches, you give a 2 year show me deal to Okafor that has a team option for year 2, essentially punting FA until next offseason, when there are a ton more guys worth going for and when the team is likely coming off of a better season. At that point, assuming we do get a top 5 pick, we are selling a young, versatile team with a top pick at each position, a fully proven Booker, and hopefully some partially proven guys with high upside in Jackson, Bender, whoever we get this offseason, Chriss. We'd also have a coach who likely improves on our awful season this year, meaning we are on the upswing. Also, at that point both Tyson and Knight are off the books, and we should have enough knowledge of our young guys to trade for somebody if needed.

Getting George Hill and Mike Conley under some screwed up reasoning that we might not be successful in FA is capping the team's future potential in many ways, which I have already explained. Ruining all future cap flexibility for a guy who is underperforming his current contract, is old and likely not to remain with the team beyond their current contracts, and likely doesn't even make us a playoff team is just so nonsensical that I cannot believe there are people here who want to try that.

[bwgood77]

But it's not just Max players...how about players that will grow with our team, instead of the next stop gap option. Those that have posted on these couple of pages are ok with TRADING for George Hill, but can't think a little further to realize that we could TRADE for a younger player?

Why not...

Kemba Walker? Age 27
Jrue Holiday? Age 27
Ricky Rubio? Age 27

Or, how about we go for a bigger name youngster like Fultz, Fox, Ntilikina, etc. If you're worried about Booker, surely he can understand wanting to build a young team up together full of high-level talent.

But spending $20M on an average player, that will tie our hands in FA...OR trades...for this next off-season isn't wise, IMO. NOBODY is going to want to trade for a $19M per George Hill, well, except some of our fans for some reason...

I get wanting to make our destination attractive, but having an average PG, with no money to spend on other FAs is not going to be 'attractive' to any FAs wanting to come here; what's going to be attractive is a young, exciting roster.

I don't think it's that people would prefer Hill to any of those guys you listed (except maybe Rubio) but Hill is more likely attainable. None of those other guys are. The Pelicans just gave Jrue a huge contract to keep him. Kemba IS the Hornets...he's pretty much their franchise player...their Booker. And those high rookie picks are definitely not on the block.

I think people are thinking a little further when not proposing trades for those guys because they know we couldn't trade for them unless we threw in Booker. I've mentioned Kemba as a good target when he becomes a free agent shortly though.