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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

What direction would you like the front office to take?

Keep developing young guys and keep first rounders
74
73%
Trade our 18 first/Jackson and whatever else for best player available
11
11%
Trade whatever it takes for vet PG and maybe also vet PF
9
9%
Trade vets for expiring contracts and 2nd rounders
7
7%
 
Total votes: 101

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#381 » by RaisingArizona » Sat Dec 9, 2017 8:42 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
gaspar wrote:For a fanbase that preaches "patience" all the time, some of you guys have no patience at all.

Ulis had a surgery during the offseason and couldn't prepare for the season as good as he wanted to. After a slow start to the season he's playing very decent basketball lately. In the last 11 games he's averaging 10.4 pts, 5.1 ast, 2.2 reb, 0.7 stl, .457 FG%, .455 3P% in 27 mpg. That's better than George Hill, Rubio or Mudiay this season and better than TJ McConnell has ever done in his career.

Only the best players like Booker can avoid the sophomore slump (and even Devin sucked donkey balls for the first 2 months of his 2nd season in the NBA). Give Bender, Chriss and Ulis some **** time to adjust. Some players need 5 or 20 games to learn what the NBA is about. Others need months or years. Be patient!


This isn't about patience, its about being honest regarding Ulis' obvious limitations that no amount of time will change. He will always be at a disadvantage because of his size. He will be a great back up pg. If he does start, then we need a quality backup pg with good size and major defensive skills.

Every team we play immediately tries to take advantage of Ulis. They run plays to post up their pg right off the bat.

We don't have to run out right now and get a marginal pg, but it is a position we will have to address at some point.

Ulis to me is at best a 10-15 mpg guy. Sort of like Ish Smith. We definitely need a 30 mpg starter to fix this hole.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#382 » by Saberestar » Sat Dec 9, 2017 9:56 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
gaspar wrote:For a fanbase that preaches "patience" all the time, some of you guys have no patience at all.

Ulis had a surgery during the offseason and couldn't prepare for the season as good as he wanted to. After a slow start to the season he's playing very decent basketball lately. In the last 11 games he's averaging 10.4 pts, 5.1 ast, 2.2 reb, 0.7 stl, .457 FG%, .455 3P% in 27 mpg. That's better than George Hill, Rubio or Mudiay this season and better than TJ McConnell has ever done in his career.

Only the best players like Booker can avoid the sophomore slump (and even Devin sucked donkey balls for the first 2 months of his 2nd season in the NBA). Give Bender, Chriss and Ulis some **** time to adjust. Some players need 5 or 20 games to learn what the NBA is about. Others need months or years. Be patient!


This isn't about patience, its about being honest regarding Ulis' obvious limitations that no amount of time will change. He will always be at a disadvantage because of his size. He will be a great back up pg. If he does start, then we need a quality backup pg with good size and major defensive skills.

Every team we play immediately tries to take advantage of Ulis. They run plays to post up their pg right off the bat.

We don't have to run out right now and get a marginal pg, but it is a position we will have to address at some point.

Ulis to me is at best a 10-15 mpg guy. Sort of like Ish Smith. We definitely need a 30 mpg starter to fix this hole.

Tyreke Evans can be the man.

Look, he has improved a lot his 3p shooting and he loves to play PG or "lead guard". He can share the ball with Booker and both are great playing off the ball too. Defensively he is an average player, but his strength and size would help us a lot against big PGs.

He is 28, so he is in his prime, perfect for us because we need a great veteran player in the perimeter next to Ulis, Booker, Reed, Jackson and Warren.

The more I think about it, the more I love the idea.
We can trade for him before the trade deadline if we want to prove the fit on the team before next season. Or just sign him in the summer as a FA...but we will need to pay him a lot to join a rebuilding team, but I would be fine with that.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#383 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sat Dec 9, 2017 10:46 pm

25 games doesn't convince me about 10 years from Tyreke Evans.

Once Knight, Chandler, Dudley are gone I'd consider it the end of those mistakes and not looking for another.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#384 » by sunsbum » Sat Dec 9, 2017 11:40 pm

Boogie, Pat Beverly. Playoffs 2019. #timelineover
"Mannnnn I’m like the guy that pissed this whole board off saying literally all year no Mikal, no Mikal in the KD trade."
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#385 » by NavLDO » Sat Dec 9, 2017 11:48 pm

pelifan wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.


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I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.


$30.9M + $26M + $25.5M + $12.2M = $94.6M

Now all you need to do is fill up the other 11 spots with your remaining $6M and you'll be GTG... :lol:

Oh wait...you already owe Asik $11.3M, Moore $8.8M, Ajinca $5.3M, and you owe a QO to Frank Jackson of $2M...or about $27.4M...and I know I'm missing a piece or two...

But don't worry, according to Spotrac, the Luxury Tax Threshold should be about $123M, so before you sign Boogie to that Max Contract, you should have about $28M to work with under the Tax Max, so fitting $31M under that should no prob...

...oh...hmmm...well, better get to work making some room! I'm sure lots of teams will be lining up to take Asik and Ajinca off your hands...

We'll save you a slice of that pizza you order... :lol: BTW...how's that "Mega"-Three of Jrue, AD, and Boogie working out for you all! I see you thoroughly handled Boogie's old team the other night; at home no less...ouch.

You may as well just trade him to use now to salvage your season. We are prepared...even willing...to help you out, because we are generous that way.

AD is still young, and therefore, can endure a 1-2 year retooling effort. Your Twin-Towers experiment has just not worked out, so let's see if we can make it worth your while to separate from him. The fact is, we also have a Center...2, in fact, that are on their way out the door, just like NOs. An easy Monroe-for-Boogie swap makes too much sense not to happen, so long as we sweeten the pot, a bit, since we really still do not want to win too much this year, but you all, do. Turns out, your starting SF is out for quite some time, while we have a young up-and-comer that needs some minutes, but we have this REALLY good other SF on a REALLY good contract in front of him. He also, just so happens to match up nicely with AD's Age Bracket.

We also have a need for a "2nd" SG, so E'twaun Moore might be a nice guy to have on the roster, so, with that said, and the fact that we are taking a huge leap of faith here by trading away our 2nd best player on a phenomenal contract, we really need to hit a couple of 'homeruns' with our picks this year, so we'd request you accepting a deal where we get the better of your pick or the Heat's pick. I may mean nothing to you. The Heat are already worse off than you all, but just in case they get on a hot streak, then we'd ask you to take their pick, and we get yours.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycnkypk2

So...

Suns Give: Monroe + Warren

Pels Give: Boogie + Moore + rights to Pels '18 1st if better than Heats in exchange for '18 Heat's

What do you say? Monroe is no slouch. I actually like Monroe and do not know why McD does not consider him as a potential for our future. The Pels lineup...

Rondo / Jrue / Warren / AD / Monroe

That could work really nice...in fact, I'm sure it would...

Leaves the Suns with...one Booker's back...

Ulis / Booker / JJ / Chriss or Bender / Boogie

McD has a few months to convince Boogie that Booker, JJ, and two Lottery picks in a deep draft will put us back on a winning pace next season...
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#386 » by thamadkant » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:18 am

ginobiliflops wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
gaspar wrote:For a fanbase that preaches "patience" all the time, some of you guys have no patience at all.

Ulis had a surgery during the offseason and couldn't prepare for the season as good as he wanted to. After a slow start to the season he's playing very decent basketball lately. In the last 11 games he's averaging 10.4 pts, 5.1 ast, 2.2 reb, 0.7 stl, .457 FG%, .455 3P% in 27 mpg. That's better than George Hill, Rubio or Mudiay this season and better than TJ McConnell has ever done in his career.

Only the best players like Booker can avoid the sophomore slump (and even Devin sucked donkey balls for the first 2 months of his 2nd season in the NBA). Give Bender, Chriss and Ulis some **** time to adjust. Some players need 5 or 20 games to learn what the NBA is about. Others need months or years. Be patient!


This isn't about patience, its about being honest regarding Ulis' obvious limitations that no amount of time will change. He will always be at a disadvantage because of his size. He will be a great back up pg. If he does start, then we need a quality backup pg with good size and major defensive skills.

Every team we play immediately tries to take advantage of Ulis. They run plays to post up their pg right off the bat.

We don't have to run out right now and get a marginal pg, but it is a position we will have to address at some point.

Ulis to me is at best a 10-15 mpg guy. Sort of like Ish Smith. We definitely need a 30 mpg starter to fix this hole.



You'd wish Ulis was actually close to Ish Smith.


Ish Smith is way better than Ulis, mainly because he makes good decisions, uses his speed to actually put defenses under pressure.
Knows his role and plays to it accordingly.


I blame the Suns coaching team also, as they lack discipline and skills in developing players into specialists.... its all about trying to make them the best players they can be... which is good if the players have the great combination of talent, size, skills and IQ. But a player like Ulis becoming Isaiah Thomas v2.0 was so remote that they should be developing him to be the Ish Smith V2.0 instead... but nope.... Ulis thinks he's a star in the making still.... a problem with many Suns players due to coaching IMO
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#387 » by BobbieL » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:25 am

NavLDO wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:OK. MIlwaukee is interested in Deandre Jordan. They would like to put together a big three of Giannis, Bledsoe, and Jordan, which is pretty potent. But they have to give up something to get it. DJ is an expiring BUT they would have his Bird rights and it is the type of place DJ would like to go.

Phoenix steps in to facilitate. The Clippers need a big man, and if it is an expiring, they would love to have his Bird rights.

Clippers out: Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams
Clippers in: Greg Monroe, Kris Middleton, Malcom Brogdon

Milwaukee out: Jabari Parker, Kriss Middleton, Malcom Brogdon.
Milwaukee in: Deandre Jordan, Troy Daniels

Suns out: Greg Monroe, Troy Daniels
Suns in: Jabari Parker, Lou Williams

Salaries work. Remember that Parker is a FA this summer, and Milwaukee has a tough decision about keeping him. They have typically moved on if its doubtful (Brandon Knight). Lou Williams is also an expiring.


Quite honestly, I think would rather use Monroe/Daniels for George Hill than Jabari Parker. I just am not sure where Parker fits in with the Suns as the Suns have young forwards already. Granted, not turning down talent, I get that.. Sweet Lou is not your ideal PG type player. Hill would be a solid PG for the next 1.5 years, off the books in summer of 2019 with Dudley and Chandler and also would help out not only Booker but the other players like Warren, Chriss and Bender as a facilitator.

I do think this trade is what the Clippers and Bucks would want though. Clippers would get two young players to build around and an expiring contract in Monroe so that works for them. For the Bucks, the same - though Middleton might be a lot to give up but you have to give to get.


Again, I'll ask...why are you so anxious to pay Hill $19M next year? I know you don't think it's that much money or for very long, but I guarantee you, 95% of this forum will want McD's head by the Summer if we bring in Hill, as that completely and totally hamstrings us financially for this FA period...and I mean we can't even bring in a complimentary piece, and may even have issues signing draft picks.

Look at the difference between Hill and Ulis...(and yes, I get stats don't tell the whole story...)

http://bkref.com/tiny/J7VUB

Hill is not $17+M better than Ulis; he just isn't. And by bringing in Hill, we continue to stunt the growth of Ulis, and really don't do much for anyone else. Oh, and if he DOES help us, then we fall farther back in the Lottery; something else we don't want at this juncture. There is just no 'good' that can come out of bringing in Hill.

No, if we are going to go after a PG, we need to be looking at these types...difference makers...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yakub7dc - we throw in our 1st Rd pick (because once we get Lillard and Booker comes back, we'll be headed to the 8th seed...we keep Miami's 1st, though, to get our Center of the future...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybexwbmd - 'see above'...insert Kemba's name for 'Lillard'. Thy get their new 'face' of the franchise in JJ or Bender...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7wfttrs + their 'interest' in the goofy reade they have with Boston for the 1st Rd pick that will either be 2018 or 2019 - I just did WHAT!! I know, it will never happen, so don't worry, but...
Fultz / JJ / Warren / Saric / Holmes (Holmes is PF/C hybrid) - this assumes Monroe being gone. Philly's all about this, as they get Booker - Simmons / Booker / Covington / Booker / Embiid. We get potentially THREE picks in the lottery this year.

...anyway, you get the point...no Hill...


The reason I am on board with Hill over Ulis and James for PG is what he brings to the table that cannot be put in a boxscore - that is experience and the ability to help Booker, Warren, Chriss and Bender develop. I don't care if Ulis and Hill on paper are the same - George Hill has been a good solid starting PG in the NBA for some time and I think would help Booker immensely by easing his workload for the next 2 years. I know people mention Booker can be Harden - but Harden didn't do the PG thing for like his first 8 years or whatever

Get a real veteran PG to take pressure off Booker - help him grow and learn also while helping Chriss, Bender in the league.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#388 » by NavLDO » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:23 am

AtheJ415 wrote:Anybody who would rather have Williams or Jackson than doncic needs their head examined imo.

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Anyone who would rather have a third starting SF, instead of a player at a position of actual need, is the one who needs their head examined. Please, do tell, what's your line up when we draft Doncic, because I'm sure it starts with..."well, we'd have to trade..." I know, I know...you think Warren will be a great 6th man...well, tell that to him and his nearly 19/6 he's slashing...3PT% isn't everything...

I'm not advocating drafting a lesser player at the 1st or 2nd overall pick, and anyone who thinks that's what I meant REALLY needs their head examined, or did you not read that part of my post? Here it is again for you...

"I'd rather have Williams or Carter or Jaren Jackson or Sexton in the 6-10 range, then draft a THIRD SF in Doncic, or take a chance on Porter."

I'm advocating making a move that will actually benefit this club, rather than have two starting SFs rot on the bench while one starts, like we have one already, or how we have two developing PFs that were pick in the Top 8 (those aren;t guys you use to fill out a roster...those are eventual starters...), with flipping a coin as to who starts...a blogger I read recently said it best about drafting Bender and Chriss in the top 10...

"Two teenagers who play the same position—what could go wrong!"

But sorry I didn't spell it out for you completely; hopefully you are able to understand my point now. But just in case...

...drafting a third starting SF, no matter HOW good he is, is completely pointless...UNLESS...we have traded the two remaining SFs on our Roster, and have already addressed our PG and C positions.

IF that has not happened, and our roster remains largely as is...in talent level and positions...meaning Ulis/Mike James has not improved drastically, and Monroe/Len are gone as expected, and we proceed to draft Doncic, and do as we have done after the 2016 draft...and the 2017 draft...(which is nothing), then yes, that would be, IMO, a dumb move.

So, please explain to me why exactly I need my 'head examined' because I do not want a third starting SF on the Suns, when we are so desperate at the PG and Center positions. Because IMO, it would make more sense to trade down, and depending on who we trade down with, either trade for their Center or PG, or trade for their 2019 1st Rd pick, or both, then draft someone 'like' a Williams or Carter or Sexton or Duval...basically, the best PG/Center available.

So, hopefully, that has cleared it up for you, and you no longer feel as though I need my head to be examined...

...but please, do tell, again, what are your plans for a third starter-worthy SF on this roster, and what do you see our depth chart as being...because before, you said JJ had 'Franchise-changing potential', and you feel Doncic is one of the best European prospects ever...so, which one are you going to NOT develop as a starting SF? Especially, considering Warren's not giving his spot up any time soon...

...or are you going to force one to play out of position? Hopefully, not PF, because we already have two of those that we've drafted in the top 10. It's not going to be SG, because we have Booker. So, will it be Center??? PG??? So why don;t you figure that out, and I'll worry about whether my head needs to be examined or not, thank you very much...
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#389 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:29 am

Doncic is a PG that can play SG/SF because of his size.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#390 » by MathiasPW » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:42 am

1 word for you:

Positionlessbasketballisthenewtrend
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#391 » by nevetsov » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:07 am

^ if that is the case, why weren't we starting Jackson/ Booker/ Warren once we flipped Bledsoe?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#392 » by pelifan » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:25 am

NavLDO wrote:
pelifan wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Whiteside = assets, and can't stay healthy. Jordan does he really help us get better? If I'm not mistaken isn't Cousins a UFA? I'd be knocking on his door at 11:59:59 with Devin Booker. He instantly makes us a playoff team.


Spoiler:
Image


I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.


$30.9M + $26M + $25.5M + $12.2M = $94.6M

Now all you need to do is fill up the other 11 spots with your remaining $6M and you'll be GTG... :lol:

Oh wait...you already owe Asik $11.3M, Moore $8.8M, Ajinca $5.3M, and you owe a QO to Frank Jackson of $2M...or about $27.4M...and I know I'm missing a piece or two...

But don't worry, according to Spotrac, the Luxury Tax Threshold should be about $123M, so before you sign Boogie to that Max Contract, you should have about $28M to work with under the Tax Max, so fitting $31M under that should no prob...

...oh...hmmm...well, better get to work making some room! I'm sure lots of teams will be lining up to take Asik and Ajinca off your hands...

We'll save you a slice of that pizza you order... :lol: BTW...how's that "Mega"-Three of Jrue, AD, and Boogie working out for you all! I see you thoroughly handled Boogie's old team the other night; at home no less...ouch.

You may as well just trade him to use now to salvage your season. We are prepared...even willing...to help you out, because we are generous that way.

AD is still young, and therefore, can endure a 1-2 year retooling effort. Your Twin-Towers experiment has just not worked out, so let's see if we can make it worth your while to separate from him. The fact is, we also have a Center...2, in fact, that are on their way out the door, just like NOs. An easy Monroe-for-Boogie swap makes too much sense not to happen, so long as we sweeten the pot, a bit, since we really still do not want to win too much this year, but you all, do. Turns out, your starting SF is out for quite some time, while we have a young up-and-comer that needs some minutes, but we have this REALLY good other SF on a REALLY good contract in front of him. He also, just so happens to match up nicely with AD's Age Bracket.

We also have a need for a "2nd" SG, so E'twaun Moore might be a nice guy to have on the roster, so, with that said, and the fact that we are taking a huge leap of faith here by trading away our 2nd best player on a phenomenal contract, we really need to hit a couple of 'homeruns' with our picks this year, so we'd request you accepting a deal where we get the better of your pick or the Heat's pick. I may mean nothing to you. The Heat are already worse off than you all, but just in case they get on a hot streak, then we'd ask you to take their pick, and we get yours.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycnkypk2

So...

Suns Give: Monroe + Warren

Pels Give: Boogie + Moore + rights to Pels '18 1st if better than Heats in exchange for '18 Heat's

What do you say? Monroe is no slouch. I actually like Monroe and do not know why McD does not consider him as a potential for our future. The Pels lineup...

Rondo / Jrue / Warren / AD / Monroe

That could work really nice...in fact, I'm sure it would...

Leaves the Suns with...one Booker's back...

Ulis / Booker / JJ / Chriss or Bender / Boogie

McD has a few months to convince Boogie that Booker, JJ, and two Lottery picks in a deep draft will put us back on a winning pace next season...

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Spoiler:
I admire your optimism though, go suns :nod:
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#393 » by sunskerr » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:45 am

Patty Mills is getting star calls against us. Holy ****.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#394 » by nevetsov » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:48 am

Purely hypothetical situation - if we had a crystal ball and could foresee the Bledsoe situation (and the way it would impact the roster) on draft day, do you think it would have affected who we selected at #4? Ie would we have been inclined to target a PG like Fox, DSJ or Frank the Tank?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#395 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:52 am

I think McDonough still liked Jackson.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#396 » by nevetsov » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:00 am

^ we do seem to love our BPAs, that's for sure.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#397 » by Hesh » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:02 am

Yeah I thought about that, but I still think we made the right pick. At draft time, wings with JJ's potential are harder to find and much needed to guard the elites. Point guards are replaceable.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#398 » by nevetsov » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:21 am

Hesh wrote:Yeah I thought about that, but I still think we made the right pick. At draft time, wings with JJ's potential are harder to find and much needed to guard the elites. Point guards are replaceable.


I thought the same, until the replacement for our PG turned out to be Mike James. Still, I tend to agree with you.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#399 » by carey » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:26 am

It's time for McDonough to go. Enough. We were down 20 to the Spurs bench & end of bench players. This is the roster you assembled. I do not care that Booker was missing. The Spurs sat 5 guys. FIVE.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#400 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:33 am

nevetsov wrote:Purely hypothetical situation - if we had a crystal ball and could foresee the Bledsoe situation (and the way it would impact the roster) on draft day, do you think it would have affected who we selected at #4? Ie would we have been inclined to target a PG like Fox, DSJ or Frank the Tank?


No, but I think we probably trade Bledsoe for Mudiay and the 13th pick if that rumored trade was on the table. If we used that 13th pick the way it was used, it would have been Donovan Mitchell. Could have given Mudiay a shot and Mitchell as 6th man type and maybe eventually try a backcourt with Mitchell and Booker.

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