Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[Sixers2125]

Anyone who thought he'd be back immediately after being declared healthy is delusional. Let him return to practice and resume shooting. If there isn't any setbacks he should be ready to play after the new year. Also the NBA as whole is pretty quiet on injured players. This isn't the NFL where we get constant updates. I actually think we've been fairly transparent and good with updates on Fultz.

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[Mik317]

could us being on the road be another reason for the length?

My dad brought it up earlier, he must have not been doing much (whether or not this is a good thing or not), and since we are on the road, he won't get any real time with the team until we return home.

food for thought,

[NBA Moses]

2 Sixer radio guys(Bob Cooney + John Johnson) that cover the Sixers believe Fultz problems have been mental not physical. He has had the yips ever since he began tinkering with his shot.

I have no idea if they are getting the right info but just thought Id pass that along.

But even if he cant shoot a lick we need him back asap just for defense . I never seen 2 guys get a quicker -14 put on them then Bayless + TLC tonight.

They were in the game 6 minutes and both got tagged with a -14 in the 1st qrt.. This has been a prolonged issue

[Sixers2125]

The tips are unprecedented in basketball, a shooter doesn't just forget how to shoot. Anyone who has played basketball would understand this.

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[LongLiveHinkie]

correct, there is no such thing as "the yips" in basketball. It just doesn't exist. "The yips" is mainly a golf term and it has to do with your wrists not being able to stabilize on an apparatus. It applies to precision sports where you hold sticks, it doesn't apply to basketball like that. It can also apply to surgery with doctors who need to hold fine precision instruments like scalpels. With all due respect to them, they don't even know what "the yips" are. Changing a shooting form is such an easy thing to do, I've changed my form a million times in my life playing basketball. I just went back to what was comfortable, it took about a day to get used to it. The guy has played competitive ball at every level and excelled, including the summer league. There is nothing wrong with him mentally, despite what those who are clueless would let on. He shot fine in the July summer league. Came to camp in September shooting weird. You don't develop bad habits in 2 months, and even if he did, it would take about a day to get it back to normal, especially with the training of professional basketball coaches. The fact that he just continued to shoot that way is obvious there was a pain issue otherwise he wouldn't have been shooting that way.

However, I could see the anticipation of pain being a mental block. I had surgery on one of my toes one time that I kept putting off and putting off and whenever I would plant on my toe it would cause tremendous pain so I used to walk and run with my big toe up in the air. Once I had surgery it took me weeks to get used to planting on that toe normally without it going into a crazy twitchy spasm because my brain would anticipate pain every time I stepped on it.

So if his shoulder was really bothering him, I could see him taking a while for his brain to get used to shooting without ancticipating pain, which would cause his shoulders to default to odd angles, causing his from and release to be off. You have to train yourself via repetition. It can take weeks, it did with me. If I had to guess, it's a combination of that, getting into game shape, and just fine tuning everything he may have regressed in during these last few months.

[Simmons25]

2 Sixer radio guys(Bob Cooney + John Johnson) that cover the Sixers believe Fultz problems have been mental not physical. He has had the yips ever since he began tinkering with his shot.

These idiots should probably be sacked from whatever station they are on... if they truly believe a guy with a sweet jumper suddenly gets the yips and changes it and that on top of that there was some conspiracy by independent shoulder specialists in Kentucky to fake a problem with his shoulder. They shouldn't be on radio giving opinions on basketball with that low of an IQ and lack of critical thinking skills.

[Johnny Bball]

The tips are unprecedented in basketball, a shooter doesn't just forget how to shoot. Anyone who has played basketball would understand this.

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The yips are unprecedented? That’s what happens with nearly every bad free-throw shooter. They sink them in practice but get the yips when the lights come on. This might be the closest to what you see happening to his shot. We’ve seen guys forget how to throw a baseball.

I came here hoping to read anything that could clarify this for me and have to say I’m leaving just as confused as ever. But only one thing seems certain, that someone involved in this is lying. What sucks for you guys is this thread will go on for at least 3 more weeks.

[Ericb5]

The tips are unprecedented in basketball, a shooter doesn't just forget how to shoot. Anyone who has played basketball would understand this.

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The yips are unprecedented? That’s what happens with nearly every bad free-throw shooter. They sink them in practice but get the yips when the lights come on. This might be the closest to what you see happening to his shot. We’ve seen guys forget how to throw a baseball.

I came here hoping to read anything that could clarify this for me and have to say I’m leaving just as confused as ever. But only one thing seems certain, that someone involved in this is lying.

The Yips refer to severe anxiety and inability to perform like what happened to Rick Ankiel in baseball where he couldn’t throw strikes anymore.

Not hitting free throws in pressure situations isn’t on the same scale.

This is a clear case of a completely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) shooting form which developed out of an injury. That free throw form doesn’t look like nervousness at all, especially in a kid that never showed a problem with nervousness before.

I don’t know how you look at that free throw form and see anything other than a physical problem.


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[sixers hoops]

2 Sixer radio guys(Bob Cooney + John Johnson) that cover the Sixers believe Fultz problems have been mental not physical. He has had the yips ever since he began tinkering with his shot.

These idiots should probably be sacked from whatever station they are on... if they truly believe a guy with a sweet jumper suddenly gets the yips and changes it and that on top of that there was some conspiracy by independent shoulder specialists in Kentucky to fake a problem with his shoulder. They shouldn't be on radio giving opinions on basketball with that low of an IQ and lack of critical thinking skills.

Cooney is a nice guy but his basketball analysis is horrible. He just doesn’t seem to have the, as you say, critical thinking skills to understand complicated scenarios. He would often get called onto the Mike Miss show to breakdown a late-breaking trade and not understand the financial and draft-pick implications behind the trade.

As of last week, he says he is still struggling to figure out why Okafor isn’t on the court.

[sixers hoops]

The tips are unprecedented in basketball, a shooter doesn't just forget how to shoot. Anyone who has played basketball would understand this.

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

The yips are unprecedented? That’s what happens with nearly every bad free-throw shooter. They sink them in practice but get the yips when the lights come on. This might be the closest to what you see happening to his shot. We’ve seen guys forget how to throw a baseball.

I came here hoping to read anything that could clarify this for me and have to say I’m leaving just as confused as ever. But only one thing seems certain, that someone involved in this is lying.

The Yips refer to severe anxiety and inability to perform like what happened to Rick Ankiel in baseball where he couldn’t throw strikes anymore.

Not hitting free throws in pressure situations isn’t on the same scale.

This is a clear case of a completely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) shooting form which developed out of an injury. That free throw form doesn’t look like nervousness at all, especially in a kid that never showed a problem with nervousness before.

I don’t know how you look at that free throw form and see anything other than a physical problem.


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The initial story was he hired a trainer to rework his shot. Nobody would intentially teach him to shoot fouls shots like Shaq, unless it was an undercover Celtics shooting coach. If so, brillant move by Ainge.

[Johnny Bball]

The tips are unprecedented in basketball, a shooter doesn't just forget how to shoot. Anyone who has played basketball would understand this.

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

The yips are unprecedented? That’s what happens with nearly every bad free-throw shooter. They sink them in practice but get the yips when the lights come on. This might be the closest to what you see happening to his shot. We’ve seen guys forget how to throw a baseball.

I came here hoping to read anything that could clarify this for me and have to say I’m leaving just as confused as ever. But only one thing seems certain, that someone involved in this is lying.

The Yips refer to severe anxiety and inability to perform like what happened to Rick Ankiel in baseball where he couldn’t throw strikes anymore.

Not hitting free throws in pressure situations isn’t on the same scale.

This is a clear case of a completely (Please Use More Appropriate Word) shooting form which developed out of an injury. That free throw form doesn’t look like nervousness at all, especially in a kid that never showed a problem with nervousness before.

I don’t know how you look at that free throw form and see anything other than a physical problem.


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I’m talking about the other instances in baseball where a catcher can no longer throw back to the pitchers or a 2nd baseman cannot make the throw to first anymore that he made tens of thousands of times. And I don’t see how these or throwing strikes is not similar to the yips when it’s mentally affecting performance. He’s starting the ball/shot in a totally different place, and I don’t see how that’s physical. Legit question...There’s little doubt he intentionally changed his shot right?

Maybe it is a bad shooting form developed from injury. But then the muscle imbalance didn’t come from the shooting changes and someone is lying if the injury was already there. Every way I look at this, everntually it leads back to someone lying. And it doesn’t seem like the small “our guy is hurt and we aren’t telling you how” lie. This seems like a saving face situation. It’s just nuts.

[DanBlazer]

Hi guys,

I rarely post on these boards however regularly read them, however I figured I would give a simple take on what I think has happened with Markelle. I am actually a Blazers fan however I also work as a physio so have some insight into shoulder injuries and particularly impingement.

Some quick background that may be helpful: Subacromial impingement isn't really a diagnosis, rather it is a set of symptoms which occur around the shoulder. Most cases of atraumatic shoulder pain will involve impingement. Basically what happens is that there is irritation of the structures underneath the acromion (tendons, bursae) which happens as the space between the acromion and glenohumeral joint is narrowed. Now - This space is usually narrowed when moving the arm upwards between 70 and 120 degrees of movement - one of the associated symptoms of impingement is that you have a painful arc of movement in this range of movement. This obviously fits in with Markelle's shot changing as he would be having pain when taking his shoulder anywhere in the normal shooting motion. Therefore - I fully expect the change in Markelle's mechanics to be related to his injury rather than being a mental issue as has been widely mentioned.

Now why does impingement occur: we don't know what causes impingement, however there are a number of factors associated with impingement. These may include scapular dysfunction, rotator cuff weakness, postural changes, changes in passive stability around shoulder etc. Assessment will normally aim to identify these factors, and treatment will combine rest and activity modification to reduce inflammation of the affected structures under the acromion, potentially a cortisone for reduction of symptoms also and then treatment aimed at correcting the associated factor - in this case strengthening of scapular stabilisers most likely with exercise plus treating any other identified problems as pain allows.

I would guess that now the 76ers are being overly cautious - which perhaps they should have been initially. I think this is particularly useful now, not for risk of reinjury, but to ensure that Markelle is 100 percent game ready and confident with his shot given all the attention this has had. If it was me there is no way I would be sending him out to play even if he was pain free if he wasn't shooting with confidence and good form. The main long term risk here I would think is that you send him out before he is happy with his shot and it kills his confidence going forward.

My take on what has happened with Markelle is that he would have been evaluated and the organisation would have known about Markelle's symptoms, and ruled out serious pathology to structures around the shoulder. With impingement, they may have told him his ability to play would be based on a symptoms, so that if he was not feeling pain that he would be fine to play. Perhaps initially these symptoms were quite mild and didn't affect him as much, but over time he may have had increasing inflammation due to continuing to use his shoulder, leading to increased symptoms, and with this they have decided to rest him to reduce his inflammation and try to rehab him. I think the reporting of the whole issue probably didn't serve to help in making the situation clear to understand for the average fan. Obviously not having assessed him I am not 100 percent sure, nor is anyone but that seems a reasonable explanation based on what has been said.

The main thing I would say is not to stress, I expect that Markelle will get back to normal once he returns and his shoulder is symptom free. As a neutral I am excited to see how he plays alongside Simmons and Embiid, he seems a perfect fit alongside them.

[DanBlazer]

Also - if you look at videos of his shot you can see that at Washington, with his free throw if you like at his shoulder he has consistent shoulder flexion prior to the shot, ie. his arm is always moving upwards and his shot looks fluid. When shooting FT's injured, he keeps his shoulder still at 90 degrees until his follow through when he then goes into maybe 120 degrees. I would guess he is doing this as a compensation, if he keeps his shoulder position static when preparing his shot it will not be painful, compared to if he is moving as per normal he will likely experience a painful arc of movement which he would expect to throw off his shot. His follow through might still be sore, but I guess he would figure that if he wasn't in pain prior to his shot he would have a better chance of making it.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Some of these clowns are calling him Anthony Bennett 2.0. Fultz was the clear cut, unanimous choice at number one on virtually every draft board, mock, forum I saw. Anthony Bennett was a shocker when he was picked at that spot. I saw mocks that had him ranging from 6 to 20 in the draft. Nobody thought Bennett would go number one.
Fultz has been given four games to play and it just seems beyond idiotic to write him off after just four games as a pro. He played on a completely different level in college and while I'm not saying that couldn't bust, he's certainly not deserving of some of the knee jerk reactions people are throwing out there.
I don't think this is a case of the yips, or some other mental instability on his part either. Is he going to have some anxiety when the lights come on? Sure....He's what? Nineteen? I think he was obviously injured to start the season and just didn't want to sit due to being the competitor that he is. Maybe he was trying to help any way that he could, we have terrible depth on this team and he figured "I can at least get out there and play solid defense (even with one arm)".
If that's the case a player like this embodies what Philadelphia is all about and I can't wait to see him back on the floor. It's way too early to panic about this.

[NJ SixerFan]

I believe that he hasn’t been shooting the basketball, yes. It would be negligent for them to have him shooting before his injury was healed. Now it is healed apparently, and the next step is shooting.


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Stop, shooting a basketball is 2nd nature to this kid. Dudes been shooting a basketball his entire life.

I’m not sure that I am understanding you.

I agree with you that he is a natural shooter. Are you arguing that, since he is a natural shooter that they should just throw him back out there?

I would rather be cautious and get him back to his natural shooting stroke, and then bring him back to the court.


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I'm saying that unless some how they are allowing him to continue on with his shot tinkering mid season (horrible time to do it) he doesn't need 3 weeks to practice his shot.

[sixerswillrule]

The tips are unprecedented in basketball, a shooter doesn't just forget how to shoot. Anyone who has played basketball would understand this.

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

The yips are unprecedented? That’s what happens with nearly every bad free-throw shooter. They sink them in practice but get the yips when the lights come on. This might be the closest to what you see happening to his shot. We’ve seen guys forget how to throw a baseball.

I came here hoping to read anything that could clarify this for me and have to say I’m leaving just as confused as ever. But only one thing seems certain, that someone involved in this is lying. What sucks for you guys is this thread will go on for at least 3 more weeks.

We've never seen a player take roughly half of his shots outside 16 feet in college on good efficiency to literally never shooting outside 16 feet upon entering the NBA. That's unprecedented. It has to be injury related.

[NBA Moses]

These idiots should probably be sacked from whatever station they are on... if they truly believe a guy with a sweet jumper suddenly gets the yips and changes it and that on top of that there was some conspiracy by independent shoulder specialists in Kentucky to fake a problem with his shoulder. They shouldn't be on radio giving opinions on basketball with that low of an IQ and lack of critical thinking skills.

They both seemed emphatic about the situation bordering on potential slander from the Sixers/Fultz side which is the reason I give a little credence to what they are saying.

These guys are crossing legal boundaries when they contradict facts given out by Sixers/Fultz. So they better be right with their spoken word or risk their radio station getting sued and them getting fired.

[Ericb5]

Hi guys,

I rarely post on these boards however regularly read them, however I figured I would give a simple take on what I think has happened with Markelle. I am actually a Blazers fan however I also work as a physio so have some insight into shoulder injuries and particularly impingement.

Some quick background that may be helpful: Subacromial impingement isn't really a diagnosis, rather it is a set of symptoms which occur around the shoulder. Most cases of atraumatic shoulder pain will involve impingement. Basically what happens is that there is irritation of the structures underneath the acromion (tendons, bursae) which happens as the space between the acromion and glenohumeral joint is narrowed. Now - This space is usually narrowed when moving the arm upwards between 70 and 120 degrees of movement - one of the associated symptoms of impingement is that you have a painful arc of movement in this range of movement. This obviously fits in with Markelle's shot changing as he would be having pain when taking his shoulder anywhere in the normal shooting motion. Therefore - I fully expect the change in Markelle's mechanics to be related to his injury rather than being a mental issue as has been widely mentioned.

Now why does impingement occur: we don't know what causes impingement, however there are a number of factors associated with impingement. These may include scapular dysfunction, rotator cuff weakness, postural changes, changes in passive stability around shoulder etc. Assessment will normally aim to identify these factors, and treatment will combine rest and activity modification to reduce inflammation of the affected structures under the acromion, potentially a cortisone for reduction of symptoms also and then treatment aimed at correcting the associated factor - in this case strengthening of scapular stabilisers most likely with exercise plus treating any other identified problems as pain allows.

I would guess that now the 76ers are being overly cautious - which perhaps they should have been initially. I think this is particularly useful now, not for risk of reinjury, but to ensure that Markelle is 100 percent game ready and confident with his shot given all the attention this has had. If it was me there is no way I would be sending him out to play even if he was pain free if he wasn't shooting with confidence and good form. The main long term risk here I would think is that you send him out before he is happy with his shot and it kills his confidence going forward.

My take on what has happened with Markelle is that he would have been evaluated and the organisation would have known about Markelle's symptoms, and ruled out serious pathology to structures around the shoulder. With impingement, they may have told him his ability to play would be based on a symptoms, so that if he was not feeling pain that he would be fine to play. Perhaps initially these symptoms were quite mild and didn't affect him as much, but over time he may have had increasing inflammation due to continuing to use his shoulder, leading to increased symptoms, and with this they have decided to rest him to reduce his inflammation and try to rehab him. I think the reporting of the whole issue probably didn't serve to help in making the situation clear to understand for the average fan. Obviously not having assessed him I am not 100 percent sure, nor is anyone but that seems a reasonable explanation based on what has been said.

The main thing I would say is not to stress, I expect that Markelle will get back to normal once he returns and his shoulder is symptom free. As a neutral I am excited to see how he plays alongside Simmons and Embiid, he seems a perfect fit alongside them.

Great info. Thanks!


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[Ericb5]

Stop, shooting a basketball is 2nd nature to this kid. Dudes been shooting a basketball his entire life.

I’m not sure that I am understanding you.

I agree with you that he is a natural shooter. Are you arguing that, since he is a natural shooter that they should just throw him back out there?

I would rather be cautious and get him back to his natural shooting stroke, and then bring him back to the court.


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I'm saying that unless some how they are allowing him to continue on with his shot tinkering mid season (horrible time to do it) he doesn't need 3 weeks to practice his shot.

At this point tinkering isn’t what he would be doing. It would be returning to his regular form.

Regardless, 3 weeks will pass and hopefully they will report then that he is back to shooting normally without Pain. Hopefully we see some video of his ft form soon.


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[Gsraider]

Hi guys,

I rarely post on these boards however regularly read them, however I figured I would give a simple take on what I think has happened with Markelle. I am actually a Blazers fan however I also work as a physio so have some insight into shoulder injuries and particularly impingement.

Some quick background that may be helpful: Subacromial impingement isn't really a diagnosis, rather it is a set of symptoms which occur around the shoulder. Most cases of atraumatic shoulder pain will involve impingement. Basically what happens is that there is irritation of the structures underneath the acromion (tendons, bursae) which happens as the space between the acromion and glenohumeral joint is narrowed. Now - This space is usually narrowed when moving the arm upwards between 70 and 120 degrees of movement - one of the associated symptoms of impingement is that you have a painful arc of movement in this range of movement. This obviously fits in with Markelle's shot changing as he would be having pain when taking his shoulder anywhere in the normal shooting motion. Therefore - I fully expect the change in Markelle's mechanics to be related to his injury rather than being a mental issue as has been widely mentioned.

Now why does impingement occur: we don't know what causes impingement, however there are a number of factors associated with impingement. These may include scapular dysfunction, rotator cuff weakness, postural changes, changes in passive stability around shoulder etc. Assessment will normally aim to identify these factors, and treatment will combine rest and activity modification to reduce inflammation of the affected structures under the acromion, potentially a cortisone for reduction of symptoms also and then treatment aimed at correcting the associated factor - in this case strengthening of scapular stabilisers most likely with exercise plus treating any other identified problems as pain allows.

I would guess that now the 76ers are being overly cautious - which perhaps they should have been initially. I think this is particularly useful now, not for risk of reinjury, but to ensure that Markelle is 100 percent game ready and confident with his shot given all the attention this has had. If it was me there is no way I would be sending him out to play even if he was pain free if he wasn't shooting with confidence and good form. The main long term risk here I would think is that you send him out before he is happy with his shot and it kills his confidence going forward.

My take on what has happened with Markelle is that he would have been evaluated and the organisation would have known about Markelle's symptoms, and ruled out serious pathology to structures around the shoulder. With impingement, they may have told him his ability to play would be based on a symptoms, so that if he was not feeling pain that he would be fine to play. Perhaps initially these symptoms were quite mild and didn't affect him as much, but over time he may have had increasing inflammation due to continuing to use his shoulder, leading to increased symptoms, and with this they have decided to rest him to reduce his inflammation and try to rehab him. I think the reporting of the whole issue probably didn't serve to help in making the situation clear to understand for the average fan. Obviously not having assessed him I am not 100 percent sure, nor is anyone but that seems a reasonable explanation based on what has been said.

The main thing I would say is not to stress, I expect that Markelle will get back to normal once he returns and his shoulder is symptom free. As a neutral I am excited to see how he plays alongside Simmons and Embiid, he seems a perfect fit alongside them.

Blasphemy. The armchair GM’s and scouts have already decided. Thus, it’s a done deal. Seriously though, thanks for the info.