Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[Kerrsed]

Tyreke Evans with another great game!

[carey]

Tyreke Evans with another great game!

I don't want to be the urinator here, but I watched Reke a lot as a Pelican. He only exceeds in a lead guard role and that is NOT what you want from him at this point in the rebuild. Trust me. I might take him at 3 or 4M a year because he's more fun to watch than Mike James, but that's about all.

[Kerrsed]

Tyreke Evans with another great game!

I don't want to be the urinator here, but I watched Reke a lot as a Pelican. He only exceeds in a lead guard role and that is NOT what you want from him at this point in the rebuild. Trust me. I might take him at 3 or 4M a year because he's more fun to watch than Mike James, but that's about all.

Well he has been doing a damn fine job manning the starting point spot with Conley down, and is only making a little over $3M this season.

[Mulhollanddrive]

The base case for Evans is that he still sucks.

But at some point the salary risk-reward swings in our favour if he's cheap enough say under $8m.

I still don't know what our PG would be in 2020 though with these Hill, Evans scenarios.

[TOO]

LOLTYREKEEVANS.

No thanks.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Purely hypothetical situation - if we had a crystal ball and could foresee the Bledsoe situation (and the way it would impact the roster) on draft day, do you think it would have affected who we selected at #4? Ie would we have been inclined to target a PG like Fox, DSJ or Frank the Tank?

I don't think it took a crystal ball to see this coming with bledsoe. Just communication with him and his agent and some foresight and logic. The fact that situation wasn't dealt with this summer is another reason McD should be on his last legs.

Now as far as jackson vs fox. I sure as hell hope bledsoe didn't impact that decision. They should have taken the best player period.

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[skywalker33]

So, how enamoured are the Suns with Chriss, is he going to be supplanted by Bender, play along side him ??

[Kerrsed]

So, how enamoured are the Suns with Chriss, is he going to be supplanted by Bender, play along side him ??

Honestly, your guess is as good as ours.

Bender and Chriss are in a way polar opposites of each other. Bender has been rather timid and Chriss overly gun-ho. They almost always sub in for each other (Unless the game is close in the 4th, then they both get pulled for Dudley), and they very very very VERY rarely play with each other.

[lilfishi22]

For a fanbase that preaches "patience" all the time, some of you guys have no patience at all.

Ulis had a surgery during the offseason and couldn't prepare for the season as good as he wanted to. After a slow start to the season he's playing very decent basketball lately. In the last 11 games he's averaging 10.4 pts, 5.1 ast, 2.2 reb, 0.7 stl, .457 FG%, .455 3P% in 27 mpg. That's better than George Hill, Rubio or Mudiay this season and better than TJ McConnell has ever done in his career.

Only the best players like Booker can avoid the sophomore slump (and even Devin sucked donkey balls for the first 2 months of his 2nd season in the NBA). Give Bender, Chriss and Ulis some **** time to adjust. Some players need 5 or 20 games to learn what the NBA is about. Others need months or years. Be patient!

This isn't about patience, its about being honest regarding Ulis' obvious limitations that no amount of time will change. He will always be at a disadvantage because of his size. He will be a great back up pg. If he does start, then we need a quality backup pg with good size and major defensive skills.

Every team we play immediately tries to take advantage of Ulis. They run plays to post up their pg right off the bat.

We don't have to run out right now and get a marginal pg, but it is a position we will have to address at some point.

Ulis to me is at best a 10-15 mpg guy. Sort of like Ish Smith. We definitely need a 30 mpg starter to fix this hole.

FWIW TJ McConnell in the last 10 games (not including when he was injured) averaged 7/3.6/5.2/0.9spg/2TO's while shooting .554FG% in 24.7mpg. McConnell also had a better AST:TO ratio. I'd take TJ over Ulis every day of the week, no question and I think you'll only find the more hardcore Ulis fan who would argue against that.

Rubio is also playing on a brand new team with no established stars, we at least have Booker who's arguably established. Gobert has been injured, they've had to rely on Hood's improvement and Mitchell surprising everyone. He's still putting up 12/3.5/5/2 on .384FG%. Not great but everything considered, he's playing his worse basketball in years right now. Hard to compare Ulis to him.

Mudiay hasn't been playing very well but he's a young guy and could get better. Hill hasn't played well and I'm not that enamored with him.

[LukasBMW]

So, how enamoured are the Suns with Chriss, is he going to be supplanted by Bender, play along side him ??

They are both 4's. Neither are strong enough to play the 5. Neither are quick enough to play the 3 consistently.

They both could still boom. They both could still bust.

Chriss: More athletic, but questionable motor and attitude. Has all the tools and has put together some great games where he shows off the ability to hit 3's, post up, and finish around the rim while playing good defense and making some really great passes. Then he'll usually follow up a game like that with a string of 5 games where he gets into foul trouble, refuses to rebound or box out, and vanishes on the offensive end before he get's pulled from the game for sulking.

Bender: Much higher Baskeball IQ. Ideal defender @ the 4 as he can block shots but also chase guys around the perimeter. His outside shot is streaky, but his form is good. At times, he has been very aggressive on the offensive end and has looked great, showing an ability to drive, post up, and even a turnaround jump shot. But more often then not, he is too timid on the offensive end you forget he is even out there.

I'd imagine the Suns will keep both and see who pans out. But if a chance comes to land a legit superstar @ the 4 or 5 and the asking price is one of Chriss/Bender, I would b surprised if we send them packing.

[lilfishi22]

So, how enamoured are the Suns with Chriss, is he going to be supplanted by Bender, play along side him ??

They are both 4's. Neither are strong enough to play the 5. Neither are quick enough to play the 3 consistently.

They both could still boom. They both could still bust.

Chriss: More athletic, but questionable motor and attitude. Has all the tools and has put together some great games where he shows off the ability to hit 3's, post up, and finish around the rim while playing good defense and making some really great passes. Then he'll usually follow up a game like that with a string of 5 games where he gets into foul trouble, refuses to rebound or box out, and vanishes on the offensive end before he get's pulled from the game for sulking.

Bender: Much higher Baskeball IQ. Ideal defender @ the 4 as he can block shots but also chase guys around the perimeter. His outside shot is streaky, but his form is good. At times, he has been very aggressive on the offensive end and has looked great, showing an ability to drive, post up, and even a turnaround jump shot. But more often then not, he is too timid on the offensive end you forget he is even out there.

I'd imagine the Suns will keep both and see who pans out. But if a chance comes to land a legit superstar @ the 4 or 5 and the asking price is one of Chriss/Bender, I would b surprised if we send them packing.

I hated that approach when we drafted them. Looking back I wish we didn't make the trade. Pretty much the top talents at that part of the draft (mid lotto) were bigs and that left us with only a few options. There wasn't a ton of value in the top 10 while there were some decent prospects in the late lotto which I would've preferred we stayed.

All in all, it just seems like a waste of a pick if our approach was to draft two bigs to see if we can hit on one. Either you hit on both and have to make a decision on what to do, both bust and you're left with two wasted picks or one bust while the other doesn't and you've spent two top 10 picks hoping to hit on one single position.

[LukasBMW]

So, how enamoured are the Suns with Chriss, is he going to be supplanted by Bender, play along side him ??

They are both 4's. Neither are strong enough to play the 5. Neither are quick enough to play the 3 consistently.

They both could still boom. They both could still bust.

Chriss: More athletic, but questionable motor and attitude. Has all the tools and has put together some great games where he shows off the ability to hit 3's, post up, and finish around the rim while playing good defense and making some really great passes. Then he'll usually follow up a game like that with a string of 5 games where he gets into foul trouble, refuses to rebound or box out, and vanishes on the offensive end before he get's pulled from the game for sulking.

Bender: Much higher Baskeball IQ. Ideal defender @ the 4 as he can block shots but also chase guys around the perimeter. His outside shot is streaky, but his form is good. At times, he has been very aggressive on the offensive end and has looked great, showing an ability to drive, post up, and even a turnaround jump shot. But more often then not, he is too timid on the offensive end you forget he is even out there.

I'd imagine the Suns will keep both and see who pans out. But if a chance comes to land a legit superstar @ the 4 or 5 and the asking price is one of Chriss/Bender, I would b surprised if we send them packing.

I hated that approach when we drafted them. Looking back I wish we didn't make the trade. Pretty much the top talents at that part of the draft (mid lotto) were bigs and that left us with only a few options. There wasn't a ton of value in the top 10 while there were some decent prospects in the late lotto which I would've preferred we stayed.

All in all, it just seems like a waste of a pick if our approach was to draft two bigs to see if we can hit on one. Either you hit on both and have to make a decision on what to do, both bust and you're left with two wasted picks or one bust while the other doesn't and you've spent two top 10 picks hoping to hit on one single position.

I usually agree with you on everything, but I think the move was genius.

Did we win the Sac trade? Too early to tell. Could we have drafted another guy? Too early to tell (and truthfully, no one else drafted later looks all that much better except maybe Murray).

Stretch 4'/5's with superstar potential are had to find. We had a chance to double our odds at a hit. Can't go wrong there especially since the failure rate is so high.

If they both pan out, then maybe one of them will end up playing center.

[lilfishi22]

They are both 4's. Neither are strong enough to play the 5. Neither are quick enough to play the 3 consistently.

They both could still boom. They both could still bust.

Chriss: More athletic, but questionable motor and attitude. Has all the tools and has put together some great games where he shows off the ability to hit 3's, post up, and finish around the rim while playing good defense and making some really great passes. Then he'll usually follow up a game like that with a string of 5 games where he gets into foul trouble, refuses to rebound or box out, and vanishes on the offensive end before he get's pulled from the game for sulking.

Bender: Much higher Baskeball IQ. Ideal defender @ the 4 as he can block shots but also chase guys around the perimeter. His outside shot is streaky, but his form is good. At times, he has been very aggressive on the offensive end and has looked great, showing an ability to drive, post up, and even a turnaround jump shot. But more often then not, he is too timid on the offensive end you forget he is even out there.

I'd imagine the Suns will keep both and see who pans out. But if a chance comes to land a legit superstar @ the 4 or 5 and the asking price is one of Chriss/Bender, I would b surprised if we send them packing.

I hated that approach when we drafted them. Looking back I wish we didn't make the trade. Pretty much the top talents at that part of the draft (mid lotto) were bigs and that left us with only a few options. There wasn't a ton of value in the top 10 while there were some decent prospects in the late lotto which I would've preferred we stayed.

All in all, it just seems like a waste of a pick if our approach was to draft two bigs to see if we can hit on one. Either you hit on both and have to make a decision on what to do, both bust and you're left with two wasted picks or one bust while the other doesn't and you've spent two top 10 picks hoping to hit on one single position.

I usually agree with you on everything, but I think the move was genius.

Did we win the Sac trade? Too early to tell. Could we have drafted another guy? Too early to tell (and truthfully, no one else drafted later looks all that much better except maybe Murray).

Stretch 4'/5's with superstar potential are had to find. We had a chance to double our odds at a hit. Can't go wrong there especially since the failure rate is so high.

If they both pan out, then maybe one of them will end up playing center.

I'm not against the trade, in a vacuum. It was a great move because whenever you can move into the top 10 while not giving up too much, you should probably do it. I'm against what we did with the pick. As I said, I didn't like most of the talent available at that mid-lotto part of the draft and there weren't any value there. At that 13-18 mark, I thought there were more guys I would've preferred we had taken a flyer on. So I'm not criticizing the trade, I'm against what we did once the trade was made.

People would argue against me and say we didn't give up much to get into that #8 spot but to me, that was just a part of the draft I didn't want to draft at. Especially if we gave up assets to draft two guys in the same position, it just makes the trade worse. I feel like whenever you give up assets to move up in the top 10 of the draft draft you better be damn sure about the player you're picking. This is why I wish we hadn't made the trade.

We picked who we wanted so it is what it is

[AtheJ415]

We are playing them at the same position now. That doesn't mean they will end up at the same positions. Bender can guard 3s through 5s. Once he and Chriss add muscle they will be able to play both big spots, and once their 3 point shots become more consistent they will be able to play with each other more. It's not as if they aren't versatile. They are.

[Frank Lee]

And once and once and once

[Frank Lee]

McD has to nail his next 3 to 4 moves. There is no margin of error. He doesn't, and we'll suck longer than ever thought possible.

[Kerrsed]

I swear these teams are tanking on purpose.

Last i looked, both Atlanta was beating the Knicks by like 8 with a few minutes left in the 4th. Same thing with Dallas against Minnesota. Somehow both lost in the end. SMH.

[bigfoot]

And once and once and once

Agreed Frank ... right now I suspect once is probably never coming with these two. Again, history shows that high quality players progress significantly in their second year. Len was a whiff, Chriss and Bender are looking to be too. Cross our fingers that Jackson pans out but he's gonna be behind TJ Warren.

[AtheJ415]

And once and once and once

Agreed Frank ... right now I suspect once is probably never coming with these two. Again, history shows that high quality players progress significantly in their second year. Len was a whiff, Chriss and Bender are looking to be too. Cross our fingers that Jackson pans out but he's gonna be behind TJ Warren.

You might be the only 2 people on the planet who write players off at their respective ages. How many current stars would actually pass you all's expectations? I' guessing maybe 3 or 4. The rest would've moved for average vet role players like Rubio.

[Frank Lee]

Keep on assuming J ... you are good at it