Harden is the best player in the NBA

[therealbig3]

Do people realize Harden's having a better season than Curry in 15/16 lol? Like he's doing historic **** so far this year.

As of right now, the numbers are really comparable, but that's comparing Harden so far to Curry's entire season. Compared to the first 25 games of the 15/16 season, Curry was better.

Harden is having an amazing season though, no doubt. Still wouldn't take him over LeBron though.

[Tritodian]

Not by a long shot. Lebron, KD, Curry, Kawhi.

You forgot Westbrook, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Anthony Davis & Giannis.

There is absolutely no reason you should get angry for people rating those 4 above him. The level of homerism to even be offended is absurd. He's been a total embarrassment the last few years in the playoffs, especially in elimination games he's lost. Kawhi is debatable since he has a lot to prove himself, but there's nothing surprising with people putting him above Harden since it's quite debatable.

at least get your facts straight, buddy

[Tritodian]

I always don't understand why this type of debate arises in the first place.

Is Harden the best player based on his career achievement? Hell no.

Is Harden the best player in terms of general player ranking? No, he's close to top 5; some people consider him within top 5, and others don't, but Harden is definitely around that range.

Is Harden the best player SO FAR this season? Actually, I would say yes.

Let's just be clear with the definitions, because the consensus is pretty obvious here.

[BallerTalk]

Change is hard.
Resistance is to be expected.

People get uncomfortable when what they learn clashes with what they know.

[twoheadedboy]

When it comes to being a better player I'd take Lebron, KD, and Kawhi over him. The first two are just freaks who are almost impossible to guard, and Kawhi is perfect on both ends of the floor.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I'd take Harden over Steph. Curry is the GOAT shooter and an amazing player (I think he deserved his MVPs), but in terms of overall skill and talent I just like Harden better.

Giannis has all the tools to join Lebron and KD in that 'unguardable' category, but I don't think he's there yet. Dude is only 23.

[Joey Wheeler]

Feels like NBA fans do this every year.

*insert undersized 1-way guard* is the best player in the league hysteria during the regular season. Then the playoffs and Finals come and most people realize it's actually the 2-way athletic wings and bigs like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, etc... who are the most valuable players in basketball, only to them start anointing whichever undersized guard is going off in the next regular season.

[Shock Defeat]

You forgot Westbrook, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Anthony Davis & Giannis.

There is absolutely no reason you should get angry for people rating those 4 above him. The level of homerism to even be offended is absurd. He's been a total embarrassment the last few years in the playoffs, especially in elimination games he's lost. Kawhi is debatable since he has a lot to prove himself, but there's nothing surprising with people putting him above Harden since it's quite debatable.

at least get your facts straight, buddy

pwnage

[INKtastic]

You forgot Westbrook, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Anthony Davis & Giannis.

There is absolutely no reason you should get angry for people rating those 4 above him. The level of homerism to even be offended is absurd. He's been a total embarrassment the last few years in the playoffs, especially in elimination games he's lost. Kawhi is debatable since he has a lot to prove himself, but there's nothing surprising with people putting him above Harden since it's quite debatable.

at least get your facts straight, buddy

Hardoen on teh rockets:

2013: Regular season PER - 23.0, Playoff PER - 20.8
2014: Regular season PER - 23.5, Playoff PER - 18.3
2015: Regular season PER - 26.7, Playoff PER - 24.8
2016: Regular season PER - 25.3, Playoff PER - 21.8
2016: Regular season PER - 27.4, Playoff PER - 23.0

A significant drop-off from regular season to playoffs every season. His best playoff season, he ended the playoffs with 14 points and 12 turnovers on 2-11 shooting.

[Dupp]

He’s not but he’s playing like it. Thunder had three mvp players and a dpoy all at once. Wow.

[CS707]

Feels like NBA fans do this every year.

*insert undersized 1-way guard* is the best player in the league hysteria during the regular season. Then the playoffs and Finals come and most people realize it's actually the 2-way athletic wings and bigs like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, etc... who are the most valuable players in basketball, only to them start anointing whichever undersized guard is going off in the next regular season.

Harden is undersized?

[Gil]

There is absolutely no reason you should get angry for people rating those 4 above him. The level of homerism to even be offended is absurd. He's been a total embarrassment the last few years in the playoffs, especially in elimination games he's lost. Kawhi is debatable since he has a lot to prove himself, but there's nothing surprising with people putting him above Harden since it's quite debatable.

at least get your facts straight, buddy

Hardoen on teh rockets:

2013: Regular season PER - 23.0, Playoff PER - 20.8
2014: Regular season PER - 23.5, Playoff PER - 18.3
2015: Regular season PER - 26.7, Playoff PER - 24.8
2016: Regular season PER - 25.3, Playoff PER - 21.8
2016: Regular season PER - 27.4, Playoff PER - 23.0

A significant drop-off from regular season to playoffs every season. His best playoff season, he ended the playoffs with 14 points and 12 turnovers on 2-11 shooting.

Every player's PER drops in the playoffs though.

[Tritodian]

There is absolutely no reason you should get angry for people rating those 4 above him. The level of homerism to even be offended is absurd. He's been a total embarrassment the last few years in the playoffs, especially in elimination games he's lost. Kawhi is debatable since he has a lot to prove himself, but there's nothing surprising with people putting him above Harden since it's quite debatable.

at least get your facts straight, buddy

Hardoen on teh rockets:

2013: Regular season PER - 23.0, Playoff PER - 20.8
2014: Regular season PER - 23.5, Playoff PER - 18.3
2015: Regular season PER - 26.7, Playoff PER - 24.8
2016: Regular season PER - 25.3, Playoff PER - 21.8
2016: Regular season PER - 27.4, Playoff PER - 23.0

A significant drop-off from regular season to playoffs every season. His best playoff season, he ended the playoffs with 14 points and 12 turnovers on 2-11 shooting.

I didn't say anything about Harden's general playoffs record, which I agree that Harden has been subpar throughout his career.

The guy was specifically focusing on elimination games, and that's why I brought up the actual facts with regard to that statement.

Harden's problem is that his bad games are much worse than any other superstars', like really really bad. That's why whenever Harden is having an off night it gets magnified and receives more attention. When LeBron or Curry has a bad game, they usually don't go 2/11 and 12 TOVs. This is strictly Harden and Westbrook's problem. But the real issue is inconsistency, which is different from saying Harden is consistently that bad.

So while the narrative that Harden always doesn't show up for elimination games is false, I would agree that he still needs to do better in the playoffs.

[gmoney411]

Do you really want me to start listing how he played at the end of games. It will take me some time but I can go ahead and point it how out he does every one of those guys in pathetic performances during elimination games. He's far and away worse than all 4 guys in PS by a large margin throughout his career. And listing the 3 WCF and 1 NBA final in some awful list wars seems silly since all 4 have a better resume here.

All the other players have been in better situations and didn't have to carry their team's offense outside of LeBron occasionally. And even LeBron has had Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and Love. All of which are high level scorers.

Did that include the time where he played vs superstar players like Draymond and Klay when Curry was out to completely **** the bed? Or was the offensive load the reason why he averaged 8 turnovers per game in the last 3 games of the last 3 years he got eliminated by another team?

Did you watch that series? Nobody else on the Rockets could do anything. Harden had amazing moments but he couldn't single handedly beat that Warriors team. They weren't going to allow one player to beat them. Even LeBron couldn't get over 40% shooting when it was just him versus that defense.

And yes, the offensive load is why he averaged that many turnovers. Nobody else on the team could create for others. Just go look at his turnovers this year compared to last year when CP3 plays. He's averaging 2 less a game.

[KayDee35]

Here's Harden accepting his award for best player in the NBA:

[NBAFan93]

Feels like NBA fans do this every year.

*insert undersized 1-way guard* is the best player in the league hysteria during the regular season. Then the playoffs and Finals come and most people realize it's actually the 2-way athletic wings and bigs like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, etc... who are the most valuable players in basketball, only to them start anointing whichever undersized guard is going off in the next regular season.

This is pretty much what happens. People look past how a lot of regular season victories are against sub par competition (be it situational, like a team on a back to back, missing a key player, etc., or just lack of talent, like tanking or non playoff caliber teams) which often has not taken the time to probably prepare for the matchup as well (especially early in the season) - and overrate how good certain players are...especially when it comes to guards who score a lot.

I’d be interested to analyze the list of FMVPs by position/type of player...

[NBAFan93]

Here's Harden accepting his award for best player in the NBA:

That’s cold....

[Impuniti]

All the other players have been in better situations and didn't have to carry their team's offense outside of LeBron occasionally. And even LeBron has had Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and Love. All of which are high level scorers.

Did that include the time where he played vs superstar players like Draymond and Klay when Curry was out to completely **** the bed? Or was the offensive load the reason why he averaged 8 turnovers per game in the last 3 games of the last 3 years he got eliminated by another team?

Did you watch that series? Nobody else on the Rockets could do anything. Harden had amazing moments but he couldn't single handedly beat that Warriors team. They weren't going to allow one player to beat them. Even LeBron couldn't get over 40% shooting when it was just him versus that defense.

And yes, the offensive load is why he averaged that many turnovers. Nobody else on the team could create for others. Just go look at his turnovers this year compared to last year when CP3 plays. He's averaging 2 less a game.

He's averaging 1.3TOs less per game, not 2. And it's at 4.4 which is still an incredibly awful amount. Lebron played vs that team and Curry. Curry was either injured or missing through most of that series, I can't believe you're giving excuses to him having too much of a burned going vs Klay and Draymond. And yes I did watch the series. It was pathetic watching a superstar being unable to do anything vs a top that lost its engine due to injury.

[INKtastic]

at least get your facts straight, buddy

Hardoen on teh rockets:

2013: Regular season PER - 23.0, Playoff PER - 20.8
2014: Regular season PER - 23.5, Playoff PER - 18.3
2015: Regular season PER - 26.7, Playoff PER - 24.8
2016: Regular season PER - 25.3, Playoff PER - 21.8
2017: Regular season PER - 27.4, Playoff PER - 23.0

A significant drop-off from regular season to playoffs every season. His best playoff season, he ended the playoffs with 14 points and 12 turnovers on 2-11 shooting.

Every player's PER drops in the playoffs though.

Doesn't happen to the best player in the world.

[Tritodian]

All the other players have been in better situations and didn't have to carry their team's offense outside of LeBron occasionally. And even LeBron has had Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and Love. All of which are high level scorers.

Did that include the time where he played vs superstar players like Draymond and Klay when Curry was out to completely **** the bed? Or was the offensive load the reason why he averaged 8 turnovers per game in the last 3 games of the last 3 years he got eliminated by another team?

Did you watch that series? Nobody else on the Rockets could do anything. Harden had amazing moments but he couldn't single handedly beat that Warriors team. They weren't going to allow one player to beat them. Even LeBron couldn't get over 40% shooting when it was just him versus that defense.

And yes, the offensive load is why he averaged that many turnovers. Nobody else on the team could create for others. Just go look at his turnovers this year compared to last year when CP3 plays. He's averaging 2 less a game.

There is some merit to this argument. The best teammate Harden has ever had before CP3 was declining Dwight Howard, which didn't help at all with the spacing and frequently messed up Houston's offensive rhythm by being exploited with Hack-A strategy.

It doesn't 100% excuse Harden, but man compared to other superstars Harden's supporting cast has been consistently subpar. And when you're the sole driving engine of the team's entire offense, it gets that much easier to stop you.

[INKtastic]

Did that include the time where he played vs superstar players like Draymond and Klay when Curry was out to completely **** the bed? Or was the offensive load the reason why he averaged 8 turnovers per game in the last 3 games of the last 3 years he got eliminated by another team?

Did you watch that series? Nobody else on the Rockets could do anything. Harden had amazing moments but he couldn't single handedly beat that Warriors team. They weren't going to allow one player to beat them. Even LeBron couldn't get over 40% shooting when it was just him versus that defense.

And yes, the offensive load is why he averaged that many turnovers. Nobody else on the team could create for others. Just go look at his turnovers this year compared to last year when CP3 plays. He's averaging 2 less a game.

There is some merit to this argument. The best teammate Harden has ever had before CP3 was declining Dwight Howard, which didn't help at all with the spacing and frequently messed up Houston's offensive rhythm by being exploited with Hack-A strategy.

It doesn't 100% excuse Harden, but man compared to other superstars Harden's supporting cast has been consistently subpar. And when you're the only driving engine of the team's entire offense, it gets that much easier to stop you.

Durant and Westbrook?