Political Roundtable Part XVI

[stilldropin20]

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i support this 100% but i do not support the US tax payer paying for a transgender surgery. which can cost $100,000-$200,000. Thats just effin silly. Go get the surgery first on your own dime or your own insurance and if you pass a physical then you should be allowed to serve. and I personally would be very proud to serve next to transgender. otherwise you are simply encouraging pre-op transgender to serve just to get the surgery for free and then "drop out." conscientious objector or whatever means to leave. Not fair to the american tax payer, imo. Now if they serve a certain number of years first and then get the free surgery? I could be on board with that.

FTR, "dont ask dont tell" was implemented when i served in the USNavy and it seemed to work. Openly gay was attempted when i served, via executive order from clinton, and it did NOT seem to work for those couple of months. But it was certainly funny!!! oh the stories!!

Also FTR, I would estimate that 20% of the military is (semi-openly) LBG. if not higher. and it makes sense if you think about it. And the overwhelming majority of service members are aware of how many most service members are gay/bi. Service dont have the hang up with this that politicians do and non service members seem to have.

[Pointgod]

Roy Moore's wife:

"We can't be anti-Semitic our Attorney is Jewish"

Jesus did Steve Bannon write that foolish dribble. That's not even a dog whistle, it's a megaphone to their base.

[dckingsfan]

The last thing I’d say is that Trump is an example of how the cult of personality is destroying a party. The Republican Party is now the party of Trump/Bannon/Moore and time will determine how much damage it has done. On the other side you can see how the Bernie cult of personality hurt Democrats in 2016 and how leaning too heavily on Obama hurt the Democrats down the ballot over the years. Build a team of stars that complement each other like Golden State opposed to the Cavs model with one superstar expected to do everything.

This - just as the Ds looked like the party of the Clintons. This will be a very deep hole for the Rs to dig out of...

The Republicans are already paying the price in terms of party identification. I thought George Will was a bit of an outlier, a conservative who left the Republican Party, but he seems to be a start of a trend. While I would imagine the former Republicans would tend to vote Republican, it would probably be less reliable both in voting that way and voting in general.

I only have anecdotal information on this. I am living at a large B&B in Houston. I get a chance to chat with folks from all over the spectra.

The solid Ds seem to be motivated to vote. The Trumpers seem to be motivated to vote. But I have had a chance to chat with several Rs that call themselves "former" Rs.

I guess we will need to wait to see what happens in '18 and '20.

[cammac]

“You know Judge Moore not just said my daughter, he didn’t call my daughter by name he said all gay people are perverts, abominations. That’s not true. We don’t need a person like that representing us in Washington.”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/11/1723443/-Video-Alabama-peanut-farmer-s-raw-emotional-statement-that-Roy-Moore-is-unfit-to-serve

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-about-alabamas-senate-election/

[dckingsfan]

I think the Ds just need to focus on purging their party of those same predators and then make it a differentiator. Short term-pain while the minority party for long-term gain.

[cammac]

This - just as the Ds looked like the party of the Clintons. This will be a very deep hole for the Rs to dig out of...

The Republicans are already paying the price in terms of party identification. I thought George Will was a bit of an outlier, a conservative who left the Republican Party, but he seems to be a start of a trend. While I would imagine the former Republicans would tend to vote Republican, it would probably be less reliable both in voting that way and voting in general.

I only have anecdotal information on this. I am living at a large B&B in Houston. I get a chance to chat with folks from all over the spectra.

The solid Ds seem to be motivated to vote. The Trumpers seem to be motivated to vote. But I have had a chance to chat with several Rs that call themselves "former" Rs.

I guess we will need to wait to see what happens in '18 and '20.

It is interesting to look at the polls on 538 where with averaging Trump is just about 20% behind in popularity with some of the gold standard polls about 22% behind in popularity. I agree with you that the hard core Trump voters will vote for him but that number now hovers about 35% but as in all elections the distribution of that 35% matters. The key in the midterms are the independents like you! The anecdotal conclusions you can draw for polling is a vast majority of independents do not approve of Trump and those will be the key in the midterms.

While the Republican tax plan is a disaster for America in some ways it could be a blessing if it passes for the Democrats. Many diehard Trump supporters will be faced with hard realities of what those policies do to them personally. Plus in solid blue states like NY, California, NJ and Massachusetts the changes in the tax code should decimate most Republican congressmen.

DC I would like to commend you on your ongoing help in Texas after the hurricane.

[Zonkerbl]

Moore gets elected, the Senate boots him out, Alabama holds a special election and votes in a less morally reprehensible Republican, everyone takes a chill pill. Problem solved.

[Pointgod]

Moore gets elected, the Senate boots him out, Alabama holds a special election and votes in a less morally reprehensible Republican, everyone takes a chill pill. Problem solved.

hahaha at you thinking Republicans in the Senate would boot him out. Do not trust Mitch McConnell the man is a snake. We already have people in the Republican party supporting him they won't boot him out. Please look up the history of all the Senators that have been unseated from the Senate. Not ones that stepped down, ones that were removed.

[Pointgod]

I think the Ds just need to focus on purging their party of those same predators and then make it a differentiator. Short term-pain while the minority party for long-term gain.

Dems have been doing the work and holding party members accountable. They actually live up to their principles. Meanwhile Republicans are supporting a pedophile. What needs to happen is for independents like you and reasonable Republicans need to stop this both sides foolishness and reward the party that's actually standing for something.

[Pointgod]

The Republicans are already paying the price in terms of party identification. I thought George Will was a bit of an outlier, a conservative who left the Republican Party, but he seems to be a start of a trend. While I would imagine the former Republicans would tend to vote Republican, it would probably be less reliable both in voting that way and voting in general.

I only have anecdotal information on this. I am living at a large B&B in Houston. I get a chance to chat with folks from all over the spectra.

The solid Ds seem to be motivated to vote. The Trumpers seem to be motivated to vote. But I have had a chance to chat with several Rs that call themselves "former" Rs.

I guess we will need to wait to see what happens in '18 and '20.

It is interesting to look at the polls on 538 where with averaging Trump is just about 20% behind in popularity with some of the gold standard polls about 22% behind in popularity. I agree with you that the hard core Trump voters will vote for him but that number now hovers about 35% but as in all elections the distribution of that 35% matters. The key in the midterms are the independents like you! The anecdotal conclusions you can draw for polling is a vast majority of independents do not approve of Trump and those will be the key in the midterms.

While the Republican tax plan is a disaster for America in some ways it could be a blessing if it passes for the Democrats. Many diehard Trump supporters will be faced with hard realities of what those policies do to them personally. Plus in solid blue states like NY, California, NJ and Massachusetts the changes in the tax code should decimate most Republican congressmen.

DC I would like to commend you on your ongoing help in Texas after the hurricane.

Trump supporters will just blame Democrats. They sheepishly follow what Fox News, Breitbart and Conservative radio tells them. They aren't the deepest thinkers here. Until some accountability is restored in the news media nothing will ever change with the 35%

[Kanyewest]

Moore gets elected, the Senate boots him out, Alabama holds a special election and votes in a less morally reprehensible Republican, everyone takes a chill pill. Problem solved.

hahaha at you thinking Republicans in the Senate would boot him out. Do not trust Mitch McConnell the man is a snake. We already have people in the Republican party supporting him they won't boot him out. Please look up the history of all the Senators that have been unseated from the Senate. Not ones that stepped down, ones that were removed.

Mitch McConnell was working to get Luther Strange elected and it was seen at a big political blow. I understand your skepticism but I would not completely dismiss this scenario especially since it could be self serving to McConnell. Although if Roy Moore gets impeached, could he decide to run again?

[Zonkerbl]

Moore gets elected, the Senate boots him out, Alabama holds a special election and votes in a less morally reprehensible Republican, everyone takes a chill pill. Problem solved.

hahaha at you thinking Republicans in the Senate would boot him out. Do not trust Mitch McConnell the man is a snake. We already have people in the Republican party supporting him they won't boot him out. Please look up the history of all the Senators that have been unseated from the Senate. Not ones that stepped down, ones that were removed.

Mitch McConnell was working to get Luther Strange elected and it was seen at a big political blow. I understand your skepticism but I would not completely dismiss this scenario especially since it could be self serving to McConnell. Although if Roy Moore gets impeached, could he decide to run again?

I am absolutely positive that if Moore were to run again against a legit conservative in a primary he would get CRUSHED. This is a state that Trump won by twenty eight points. Moore is in slight statistical danger of losing to an accursed abortion-loving Democrat. He's dead in the water running against a normal conservative.

I also don't think the Republicans have much choice but to kick Moore out. If they don't his face will be all over every campaign ad the Dems run from now until next November.

[cammac]

hahaha at you thinking Republicans in the Senate would boot him out. Do not trust Mitch McConnell the man is a snake. We already have people in the Republican party supporting him they won't boot him out. Please look up the history of all the Senators that have been unseated from the Senate. Not ones that stepped down, ones that were removed.

Mitch McConnell was working to get Luther Strange elected and it was seen at a big political blow. I understand your skepticism but I would not completely dismiss this scenario especially since it could be self serving to McConnell. Although if Roy Moore gets impeached, could he decide to run again?

I am absolutely positive that if Moore were to run again against a legit conservative in a primary he would get CRUSHED. This is a state that Trump won by twenty eight points. Moore is in slight statistical danger of losing to an accursed abortion-loving Democrat. He's dead in the water running against a normal conservative.

I also don't think the Republicans have much choice but to kick Moore out. If they don't his face will be all over every campaign ad the Dems run from now until next November.

Yes McConnell could try to remove Moore IF he wins but it isn't that easy. It requires 2/3 of the Senate to vote for dismissal which requires 16 Democrats and 51 Republicans to vote for dismissal. Getting 51 Republicans in itself would be a chore but what incentive do the Democrats have from saving the Republicans from embarrassment. In the end they would vote for dismissal but make the Republican cringe on all the gory details of Judge Moore's life. Below is details on how to remove a legislator.

https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/ee067ba0-db71-4394-9a37-453316aeb453.pdf

[stilldropin20]

POS liberal left moving on from Russiagate already????

On to sexual misconductgate!!! give us a solid 12 months of this!
You butthurt POFS!!!!!!!!!!!!! grow up and accept the results of the election. and get a candidate ready for 2020.

Oh...you got know one? You suck so effing bad that you got no one that can beat a orangoutang??? thats how bad you suck?

Like i said, death by a thousand cuts. Imeachment is the D's only route to victory in 2020. And they know it.

[stilldropin20]

hahaha at you thinking Republicans in the Senate would boot him out. Do not trust Mitch McConnell the man is a snake. We already have people in the Republican party supporting him they won't boot him out. Please look up the history of all the Senators that have been unseated from the Senate. Not ones that stepped down, ones that were removed.

Mitch McConnell was working to get Luther Strange elected and it was seen at a big political blow. I understand your skepticism but I would not completely dismiss this scenario especially since it could be self serving to McConnell. Although if Roy Moore gets impeached, could he decide to run again?

I am absolutely positive that if Moore were to run again against a legit conservative in a primary he would get CRUSHED. This is a state that Trump won by twenty eight points. Moore is in slight statistical danger of losing to an accursed abortion-loving Democrat. He's dead in the water running against a normal conservative.

I also don't think the Republicans have much choice but to kick Moore out. If they don't his face will be all over every campaign ad the Dems run from now until next November.

not only this but traditional establishment R's like mcconnell are desperately trenching around the house and senate to keep the Bannon/trump R's out of congress.

so even regardless of Moore's optics right now, they want moore out. there will be bi-partisan support to remove him.

[stilldropin20]

why are you guys not discussing your fake news? CNN MSNBC CBS?? are you not concerned that you have been purposefully duped?

Don't worry, SD20 is here. I'll save you. get the straight dope daily from SD20!!!

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[I_Like_Dirt]

I am absolutely positive that if Moore were to run again against a legit conservative in a primary he would get CRUSHED. This is a state that Trump won by twenty eight points. Moore is in slight statistical danger of losing to an accursed abortion-loving Democrat. He's dead in the water running against a normal conservative.

Define normal conservative, and make sure that definition fits for Alabama, too. I get that there will be support to try and remove Moore, but it will be entirely beside the point if it comes to that. The seeds were sewn long ago. I mean, there was a relatively normal conservative (such as it is) trying to win the nomination and even with Trump's support, he was destroyed. Moore getting kicked out doesn't change the dynamics at play here. If Moore does lose or get kicked out, it's on a single issue. The voters very much still buy everything else he's selling and whether it's now or a few years from now, it's very fertile ground for another Moore to pop up at any point.

[cammac]

Mueller's time might be coming to a end soon the noose is closing around Donald Trump and his family and a caged animal will try to escape the noose by any means possible. Fox "non fake news" and Bannon are pulling out all stops to condemn him. Even on sites like this the Alt Right is regurgitated as if it was tablets from the mount. While Mueller is not going to change his precise investigation of the Russian interference in the 2016 election which even Tillerson has recognized .

Mueller may give us a holiday surprise by charging Don Jr, and Kushner and a plea from Page? This would effectively stop Trump from firing him without causing a constitutional crisis.

Trump is now also facing a organized attack on his sexual conduct in NY State Court and by his accusers this has been instigated by his endorsement of Roy Moore and his attacks on Democrats facing similar situations. But then none of them have the tic tac and grab them by the pusseeee tape. OH forgot thats fake news not my voice even though I admitted it. Trust Me
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/12/1723524/-Alarms-Are-Ringing-Whistles-Are-Blowing-This-Is-Not-A-Drill-Trump-VS-Mueller

[Pointgod]

Moore gets elected, the Senate boots him out, Alabama holds a special election and votes in a less morally reprehensible Republican, everyone takes a chill pill. Problem solved.

hahaha at you thinking Republicans in the Senate would boot him out. Do not trust Mitch McConnell the man is a snake. We already have people in the Republican party supporting him they won't boot him out. Please look up the history of all the Senators that have been unseated from the Senate. Not ones that stepped down, ones that were removed.

Mitch McConnell was working to get Luther Strange elected and it was seen at a big political blow. I understand your skepticism but I would not completely dismiss this scenario especially since it could be self serving to McConnell. Although if Roy Moore gets impeached, could he decide to run again?

Here's the thing. What message does it send to Alabama voters to completely nullify their vote? You think there's establishment backlash now, just wait for the Breitbart headlines savaging Mitch McConnell and Republicans. You'll just end up with another Bannon backed primary contender and good luck convincing voters to turn out for another runoff election. We know McConnell is a coward considering he's flipped flopped on this issue many times. They'll drag their feet on an ethics investigation which can take 2-3 years and in the meantime get Moore's vote on their initiatives to screw the American people.

[cammac]

What ever the outcome in the Senate election tonight it will have implications on other Southern States. Mississppi will have a Senate election in 2018 and likely a special election because of the declining health of Thad Cochran. Mississippi like Alabama are the icons of the “Old South” but Mississippi has a far different demographic than Alabama. I haven't been able to get the % of independents in Mississippi.

Mississippi has the highest percentage of Afro Americans in the USA @ 37% which is growing with people returning for retirement. The state has 4% Latinos and 1% Asian which gives a strong 42% of the population which should be Democratic.

Mississippi has the highest poverty levels in the USA and lowest household income so they will be one of the States most effected by the new Republican tax plan. Hillary Clinton ran behind what Obama did in both 2012 where Obama got almost 44% of the vote and in 2008 where he recieved 43% of the vote.

Bannon is planning on putting up a challenger for Wicker which will possibly move the Republican Party further right. His choices are extreme and may even repeal some Republican voters. Some safe seat in the Republican Senate may not be as safe as the pundits predict. If tonight is won by Jones or if he loses by a small margin. I think Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas could be put in play in 2018.