Harden is the best player in the NBA

[ken6199]

Not by a long shot. Lebron, KD, Curry, Kawhi.

You forgot Westbrook, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Anthony Davis & Giannis.

he's way better than Klay and PG. come on now.

He was being sarcastic.

[WarriorGM]

I think Harden would have a similar level of success if you put him on the Warriors the last few years.

I would have a strong objection to this. What Curry has achieved with the Warriors is historic. I do not think Harden would have accomplished the same in Curry's place the last few years. I think Harden only established himself securely as a top five player with D'Antoni. This year Harden can show us exactly what he can do if put in a situation like Curry's.

[Tritodian]

Harden was a laughing stock that year, and it only continued after they were bounced in 5 by a crocked Curry that didn't even show up for 1/2 a series. Nowhere did I imply that the Ws need Curry to be an elite team, just that I have standards of superstar to beat a Curry-less Warrior team in 2016. Rockets fans can come up with the poor squad excuse but to me it is embarrassing for a player of Harden's quality to get bounced in 5 by them. Your different standards to me sound like really bad excuses.

The Warriors won 32 more games than the Rockets that year. This wasn't a small gap in teams. Nobody in their right mind should have thought the Rockets would challenge the Warriors with or without Curry.

The Rockets lost 3 of 4 against the Curry less Warriors and in two of those games Harden played great. And the game where he was the greatest it didn't even make a difference.

I accept the argument that Harden has had an inferior supporting cast for the most part and that is why he deserves people to keep an open mind and give him an opportunity to make his case now that he has a good team and system backing him.

But there is nothing in anything that has gone before that indicates Harden deserves more than that or consideration as a superior player in those earlier years. Unlike Harden, LeBron keeps going to the finals. Durant was the superior player when he and Harden were teammates. Curry may have had a better team when he has beaten Harden but he led that team to a championship and 73-9. If we were to mentally switch Harden for Curry on the Warriors does anyone seriously think Harden could have done a better job? Even with the team he has now I don't think 70 wins is achievable for Harden. Kawhi eliminated Harden last year. Harden can rack up obscene numbers but the others do so more efficiently and the only one who is not proven as prolific a scorer—Kawhi—is a much, much better defensive player.

LeBron, Durant, and Curry obviously have very good cases over Harden, just based on their career achievements.

I'm not so sure about Kawhi tho. Sure his team did beat Houston last year, but the Spurs are still doing great with or without him. I'm still not sold as to Kawhi's overall impact being greater than Harden's because his on/off numbers don't look that great. Last year his defensive impact was certainly questionable, and we've seen countless times that when a defensive specialist suddenly becomes really good at offense, their D tends to sag off a little. Nobody can go full throttle on both ends so it's understandable, but Harden is literally averaging 32-10 with very good efficiency, so does Harden's scoring and playmaking ability combined outshadow Kawhi's scoring and defense? It's possible.

[AdagioPace]

Rockets fans for years have been stressing the importance of the playoffs and how being the MVP (Robinson) doesn't mean being the best player in the league (Hakeem). What happened?
It's easy to get carried away by what your star is doing.

The problem is: you can't even give him the benefit of the doubt anymore given the obscenity of some of his performances when it matters most.
There's been plenty of great regular season players in history.

[gmoney411]

I think Harden would have a similar level of success if you put him on the Warriors the last few years.

I would have a strong objection to this. What Curry has achieved with the Warriors is historic. I do not think Harden would have accomplished the same in Curry's place the last few years. I think Harden only established himself securely as a top five player with D'Antoni. This year Harden can show us exactly what he can do if put in a situation like Curry's.

That's fair. They are two different players with very different styles. I just happen to think the players the Warriors have would compliment Harden very well.

[Ancalagon]

Must be nice when people get excited about pwning people online.


Lets look at Harden's elimination games the Rockets got taken down since he became a superstar.
17' vs Spurs - 2-11 18%, 10-3-7-1-1, 6TOs, -28
16' vs GSW - 12-23 52%, 35-6-6-2, 7TOs, -27
15' vs GSW - 2-11 18%, 14-6-5-3, 12TOs, -4

2 of those 3 games might be the worst games by a superstar in elimination in the last few years. Curry has his 16' finals, with Lebron the 11' finals, but they have far, far more plus than minus. Not to mention his team making a comeback before playing the Warriors with him on the bench earlier. You guys are getting defensive for no reason. He's been a terrible choker these last few years. He's 28 and primed to prove doubters wrong, but it's comical to think he hasn't been a failure in the playoffs these last few years when he's elevated his quality so much post OKC. I said last year when everyone was creaming over the trip dubs that Harden is a clearly superior player to WB and it's not close, and I called the Rockets in 5 happening. He has a lot to prove in the playoffs.

And to the woe is me and the lack of help, nobody but Rockets fans care that Harden didn't have enough help when he played like garbage. This time around he has an awesome team and is looking the most likely to take down the 4-headed GSW monster. But it's up to him to prove it. So far in his career, he's been underwhelming in the PS.

Do you even understand the meaning of elimination games? You seemed to think that it's only when you lose it's called an elimination

15 vs GSW game 4 (elimination game) - 13-22 59.1%, 45-9-5

16 vs GSW game 4 (elimination game) - 12-23 52.2%, 35-6-6


Just because you win, it does NOT become an elimination game. You do know that, right?

You've already been exposed with your false narrative, better go find something else to harp on

Welp. When you're right, you're right. And when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No idea how this went over my head. I'm not going to bring something else up since for this particular point, it's wrong on my end.

This may be the first time I’ve seen this on the internet.

[Tritodian]

The problem is: you can't even give him the benefit of the doubt anymore given the obscenity of some of his performances when it matters most.
There's been plenty of great regular season players in history.

Is that the tired old elimination game argument again, which has been debunked on this very thread?

If you're talking about the playoffs in general, I agree that he needs to step it up, but let me ask you how well would Kawhi have fared with this level of supporting cast?

[ric munchn]

Lebron is the best player in the NBA. Harden is not better than him period. I’m taking Durant for sure 2nd. I wanna win titles not get stats. In the playoffs I want Durant over Harden. Curry I’ll also take but this is a year by year thing and Harden is healthy and Curry is not this year so far I’d take harden.
Once the playoffs role around I’d rather LBJ, Durant and assuming healthy Kawhi. Curry has been better overall the last 3 years but again this year specifically maybe Harden plays better because it’s always been close. 2 way bigger players will almost always win in the playoffs.

[Rob Diaz]

Harden is one of the best RS players in NBA history. That's obvious and goes without saying.

Are we supposed to ignore his playoff failures, though? Man is an embarrassment. The end of his run last year was as pathetic as I have ever seen from a superstar player.

Game 5 in a 2-2 series. Kawhi Leonard can't move in the 4th and doesn't play in OT. James Harden is by far the biggest name on the floor. Of course he will step up and win the game, correct? LOL NO. Who stepped up? Danny Green. Sure, Green has been one of the better role players of this era, but OUTPLAYING HIS SUPERSTAR ASSIGNMENT in clutch time of the biggest quarter of the season? Sad.

It isn't over, though. Somehow, it got worse. A LOT WORSE, actually. It's game 6 in Houston, Rockets are facing elimination. Kawhi Leonard is ruled out of the game. This is Harden time, he will prove all the doubters wrong. How does he respond? He gets COMPLETELY DESTROYED on both ends by unknown Jonathon Simmons, a player who wasn't even in the Spurs rotation to begin the playoffs LOL.

Harden is a fraud, he's a player who likes having fun and thriving in non-pressure situations. I don't know if I've ever seen anything as pathetic as I saw in last year's playoffs. I was cheering for the Spurs, but I was embarrassed as a fan of basketball to watch that pathetic display.

[RaptorsLife]

Lebron puts way way more fear into me than harden that could be because of last playoffs series lol

[Edrees]

I would easily call him the best regular season player this year. best player though? no

[Tritodian]

Harden is one of the best RS players in NBA history. That's obvious and goes without saying.

Are we supposed to ignore his playoff failures, though?

Do you even realize Harden was absolutely ballin' in game 5 until this happened?

Read on Twitter

I'm not saying this is 100% the case, but Harden before that collision and after was clearly a different player. If it's just a coincidence, then it's a really weird one, because Harden was having a great game before that incident.

[LivingLegend]

Does he still lead the league in shot attempts and turnovers while being a liability on defense?

Oh wait....he does.

[kayman3]

Does he still lead the league in shot attempts and turnovers while being a liability on defense?

Oh wait....he does.

Literally no, no, and no. Check the stats.

[LAKESHOW]

Cmon guys, we've seen this movie before. Since OKC days, recent history has even shown, excellente en fuego during the season, muy retardo when crunch time hits. When The MVP caliber stuff really counts, he comes el Choke-O

[LivingLegend]

Does he still lead the league in shot attempts and turnovers while being a liability on defense?

Oh wait....he does.

Literally no, no, and no. Check the stats.

I did, and yes he does lead the league in shot attempts, hes 3rd in turnovers this year while breaking the all time record each of the past two seasons and yes, he is still below average on defense.

James Harden currently ranks 28th in the NBA in FG% among NON CENTERS that receive 30+ mins a game. Including Centers, he ranks 44th in the NBA in FG% of players who play 30+ mins per game.

[kayman3]

Does he still lead the league in shot attempts and turnovers while being a liability on defense?

Oh wait....he does.

Literally no, no, and no. Check the stats.

I did, and yes he does lead the league in shot attempts, hes 3rd in turnovers this year while breaking the all time record each of the past two seasons and yes, he is still below average on defense.

FG attempts per game? then yes. Not sure why this is a problem, as Harden is scoring very efficiently.

The defense, while not great, is better than previous years. Houston is a pretty good defensive team this season tho.

[LivingLegend]

Literally no, no, and no. Check the stats.

I did, and yes he does lead the league in shot attempts, hes 3rd in turnovers this year while breaking the all time record each of the past two seasons and yes, he is still below average on defense.

FG attempts per game? then yes. Not sure why this is a problem, as Harden is scoring very efficiently.

The defense, while not great, is better than previous years. Houston is a pretty good defensive team this season tho.

No, hes not.

James Harden currently ranks 28th in the NBA in FG% among NON CENTERS that receive 30+ mins a game. Including Centers, he ranks 44th in the NBA in FG% of players who play 30+ mins per game.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Literally no, no, and no. Check the stats.

I did, and yes he does lead the league in shot attempts, hes 3rd in turnovers this year while breaking the all time record each of the past two seasons and yes, he is still below average on defense.

FG attempts per game? then yes. Not sure why this is a problem, as Harden is scoring very efficiently.

The defense, while not great, is better than previous years. Houston is a pretty good defensive team this season tho.

Better than previous years is still far from good.

[kayman3]

James Harden currently ranks 28th in the NBA in FG% among NON CENTERS that receive 30+ mins a game. Including Centers, he ranks 44th in the NBA in FG% of players who play 30+ mins per game.

C'mon really? Harden takes 11 threes a game which he hits them at 40.6% clip, which obviously brings down his overall FG%. A player like DeRozan who rarely takes any threes can average 50 FG%, it doesn't mean DeRozan is more efficient than Curry or Harden.

That's why we have stats like eFG% and TS%. DeRozan has higher FG% than both Curry and Harden, but his actual efficiency is much lower.