Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[Revived]

Pistons have lost 7 in a row...would they perhaps be interested in trading the expiring Avery Bradley?

If they are, we shouldn't be interested. He likely removes the possibility of us offering a max for the next 2 offseasons, while allowing us to just win enough games to jump up to 7th in the reverse rankings. Neither are ideal. Not to mention he is a soon to be FA.

If we can get him for cheap, aka Bucks pick, I would do it. Bradley isn't good enough by himself for us to win games with him either especially with Booker remaining out.

And this whole "offering the max thing" needs to stop. Avery Bradley is the tier of kind of players that the Suns can attract. Hell, we would be lucky to even get players in the same tier as Bradley to look at the Suns as a FA destination.

So if getting Bradley means we lose one of those max spots, fine. I'd rather get guys like him who can help turn the Suns into an attractive FA destination rather than remain the WORST FA destination in the league with tons of cap space and end up giving them out to bums.

Right now, the Suns are similar to the Cleveland Browns of the NFL. Browns are a team that often has a lots of cap space and their fans hope to spend it on star high salary players but it never happens because the Browns are the worst Fa destination in football.

[jcsunsfan]

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

That's hogwash. They had a legit chance in 9 before KJ got injured. They easily probably would have won that year. Barkley gave them more publicity and many fans suddenly became fans in 92 or 93 so may think that, but they were firmly in the mix every year. Barkley was to put them over the top and he never was able to. 93 they were lucky to get to the finals being down 0-2 in the first round and getting a lot of favorable calls in the WCF. They had the talent, but with Barkley, for all the talent you got, you also got a guy that liked to party and expect things to work out because he'd be ready for games. And most games he did leave it all on the court, but he could have been more serious about it.

But with that team, the team was already a serious contender that had been to the WCF twice before adding Barkley. They won as many games the 4 years prior to Barkley as they did the 4 years with him.

Our team is so far short of pieces right now it would be short sighted to trade part of what could add to a brighter future for a little better chance to win a few games now.

Umm. They traded for Kj, Corbin and west. They signed Tom Chambers. The only significant player of that bunch that they drafted themselves was Hornacek and he was a second rounder. No way they contend without Chambers.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[AtheJ415]

Pistons have lost 7 in a row...would they perhaps be interested in trading the expiring Avery Bradley?

If they are, we shouldn't be interested. He likely removes the possibility of us offering a max for the next 2 offseasons, while allowing us to just win enough games to jump up to 7th in the reverse rankings. Neither are ideal. Not to mention he is a soon to be FA.

If we can get him for cheap, aka Bucks pick, I would do it.

And this whole "offering the max thing" needs to stop. Avery Bradley is the tier of kind of players that the Suns can attract. Hell, we would be lucky to even get players in the same tier as Bradley to look at the Suns as a FA destination.

So if getting Bradley means we lose one of those max spots, fine. I'd rather get guys like him who can help turn the Suns into an attractive FA destination rather than remain the WORST FA destination in the league with tons of cap space and end up giving them out to bums.

Right now, the Suns are similar to the Cleveland Browns of the NFL. Browns are a team that often has a lots of cap space and their fans hope to spend it on star high salary players but it never happens because the Browns are the worst Fa destination in football.

This is the most insane logic I have read on this board. It is the logic that led to us trading for Brandon Knight. No more half measures with the hope of one day making the 8 seed. Either get a max guy who is actually worthwhile, or else maintain the flexibility to get that guy in the future. Paying money that knocks us out of any chance for a max offering (the one advantage we actually have in FA), is not somehow better and does not make Phoenix more attractive. The advantage we can sell is Booker and money. You want to eliminate the money part for the sake of a solid role player in Avery Bradley who is nowhere close to a star.

[bwgood77]

Marion was our only all star in the SSOL era before Nash joined.

You really gonna act like Amare wasn't already looking like one of the next big time PF/Cs despite it only being in his second year and JJ didn't look like he was gonna be an all star? This team doesn't compare to that team All Star accolades or not, don't be disingenuous to try getting your point across.

Whoa whoa whoa hold the phone. JJ certainly did not look like he was going to be an all-star. He was disappointing for several years before 04-05. We all wanted him to take Penny's spot but he never managed it. Inconsistent play, low intensity, missed shots. Nobody was calling him a future all-star. Not his rookie year, when he was traded after half a season for two bench players. Not during his second season, when at the age of 21, he averaged 10, 3 and 3 in 28 MPG, shooting 40% from the field. Not even during his third season, when he led the post-Marbury Suns in MPG with 40, averaged 16, 5 and 4, and shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3. JJ really broke out as a shooter the year Nash joined the team, and then broke out as a player with the Hawks in his fifth and sixth NBA seasons.

I was posting on Suns boards back then buddy, and no one, NOT NO ONE was saying that JJ looked like a future All-Star before his fourth NBA season, and even then such talk barely registered as a whisper. The guy was a distant fourth banana behind Nash-Amare-Marion. PLENTY of posters assumed he was a bust back then and were ready to move on.

So yeah, I'm familiar with the attitudes currently prevailing on this message board. NOTE that not only did the Celtics give up on Johnson too soon, but when we S&T'd him to Atlanta, we traded him for second-year player Boris Diaw -- whom Atlanta similarly gave up on way too early after a disappointing rookie season. It's not a new thing. Young players usually take time to develop!

But yeah, Amare looked like a beast pretty much immediately. Every player is different.

What are you talking about? JJ was a fan favorite. At least on the espn board. He averaged 16-4-4 and I remember that summer I was really pissed Sarver wouldn't give JJ his extension...he wanted 6-45 and Sarver only would go 6-40...it is ingrained in my mind that he would not extend him because he gave money to Q.

And in 04-05 he was a fan favorite, as I mentioned...sunsbum could tell you all about his bobblehead and all the talk about JJ that season. He was smooth as silk. I don't know what message board you were on then but JJ was certainly not an afterthought.

Going into Nash's season he was a prized piece. We traded two solid players at the time Tony "50 pt game" Delk and Rodney Rogers for him and it helped Boston advance in the playoffs.

[bwgood77]

Pistons have lost 7 in a row...would they perhaps be interested in trading the expiring Avery Bradley?

If they are, we shouldn't be interested. He likely removes the possibility of us offering a max for the next 2 offseasons, while allowing us to just win enough games to jump up to 7th in the reverse rankings. Neither are ideal. Not to mention he is a soon to be FA.

If we can get him for cheap, aka Bucks pick, I would do it. Bradley isn't good enough by himself for us to win games with him either especially with Booker remaining out.

And this whole "offering the max thing" needs to stop. Avery Bradley is the tier of kind of players that the Suns can attract. Hell, we would be lucky to even get players in the same tier as Bradley to look at the Suns as a FA destination.

So if getting Bradley means we lose one of those max spots, fine. I'd rather get guys like him who can help turn the Suns into an attractive FA destination rather than remain the WORST FA destination in the league with tons of cap space and end up giving them out to bums.

Right now, the Suns are similar to the Cleveland Browns of the NFL. Browns are a team that often has a lots of cap space and their fans hope to spend it on star high salary players but it never happens because the Browns are the worst Fa destination in football.

Why would you give up assets for an expiring player? When he's a free agent he is one guy I think makes some sense to go after but I certainly wouldn't give up assets for a half of year for him in a meaningless year when he could go anywhere he wants in the summer.

[bwgood77]

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

That's hogwash. They had a legit chance in 9 before KJ got injured. They easily probably would have won that year. Barkley gave them more publicity and many fans suddenly became fans in 92 or 93 so may think that, but they were firmly in the mix every year. Barkley was to put them over the top and he never was able to. 93 they were lucky to get to the finals being down 0-2 in the first round and getting a lot of favorable calls in the WCF. They had the talent, but with Barkley, for all the talent you got, you also got a guy that liked to party and expect things to work out because he'd be ready for games. And most games he did leave it all on the court, but he could have been more serious about it.

But with that team, the team was already a serious contender that had been to the WCF twice before adding Barkley. They won as many games the 4 years prior to Barkley as they did the 4 years with him.

Our team is so far short of pieces right now it would be short sighted to trade part of what could add to a brighter future for a little better chance to win a few games now.

Umm. They traded for Kj, Corbin and west. They signed Tom Chambers. The only significant player of that bunch that they drafted themselves was Hornacek and he was a second rounder. No way they contend without Chambers.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Ummmmmm...we are talking about him saying that when Barkley came on board was the only chance to contend for a championship with that team..

...but ....the whole key to that team that became a contender was KJ and they traded a VET, LARRY NANCE for Rookie Kevin Johnson. KJ was the piece in the trade. Corbin was great but lost in expansion and West was good but no key on the team. Sure they added Chambers but this 28 win team traded their star player LARRY NANCE for a rookie to start over and they suddenly exploded, not primarily because of vets, but because of KJ, draftees Hornacek, Majerle and one free agent.

[bwgood77]

If they are, we shouldn't be interested. He likely removes the possibility of us offering a max for the next 2 offseasons, while allowing us to just win enough games to jump up to 7th in the reverse rankings. Neither are ideal. Not to mention he is a soon to be FA.

If we can get him for cheap, aka Bucks pick, I would do it.

And this whole "offering the max thing" needs to stop. Avery Bradley is the tier of kind of players that the Suns can attract. Hell, we would be lucky to even get players in the same tier as Bradley to look at the Suns as a FA destination.

So if getting Bradley means we lose one of those max spots, fine. I'd rather get guys like him who can help turn the Suns into an attractive FA destination rather than remain the WORST FA destination in the league with tons of cap space and end up giving them out to bums.

Right now, the Suns are similar to the Cleveland Browns of the NFL. Browns are a team that often has a lots of cap space and their fans hope to spend it on star high salary players but it never happens because the Browns are the worst Fa destination in football.

This is the most insane logic I have read on this board. It is the logic that led to us trading for Brandon Knight. No more half measures with the hope of one day making the 8 seed. Either get a max guy who is actually worthwhile, or else maintain the flexibility to get that guy in the future. Paying money that knocks us out of any chance for a max offering (the one advantage we actually have in FA), is not somehow better and does not make Phoenix more attractive. The advantage we can sell is Booker and money. You want to eliminate the money part for the sake of a solid role player in Avery Bradley who is nowhere close to a star.

I am curious...say we don't find anyone worthy of signing as a FA in 18, so we save the dough, and then no one worthy of a max wants to sign in 19. With a Booker contract hitting the books do you just take the best complementary pieces you can find then?

Or, lets say cap space is never an issue, and we have max cap space every year going forward. If no max worthy "star" free agent signs one year, how many years do you wait with Booker to start using that money to just add various pieces? 2020? 21? 22? How long do you feel you could wait?

[carey]

I am curious...say we don't find anyone worthy of signing as a FA in 18, so we save the dough, and then no one worthy of a max wants to sign in 19. With a Booker contract hitting the books do you just take the best complementary pieces you can find then?

Or, lets say cap space is never an issue, and we have max cap space every year going forward. If no max worthy "star" free agent signs one year, how many years do you wait with Booker to start using that money to just add various pieces? 2020? 21? 22? How long do you feel you could wait?

Well, you're describing the New Orleans Pelicans pretty well. They can't get FAs here so they opted to keep trading away their draft picks for players instead of rolling over cap space.** Then they have to overpay them when they become FAs a year or two later. It's a **** situation to be in honestly. A core of Jrue-AD-Boogie was never going to be ultra competitive the way the game is played and officiated. But it's the best they could do all things considered.

** The reason they did this is because they felt pressured to win with Davis or lose him. Should they have continued to suck and build organically like OKC? Absolutely. The problem was the owner is old and they wanted to make the playoffs sooner rather than later so they fast-tracked the rebuild and what you see now is the result of that. 1 generational player surround by an all-star and a good player with a ton of pieces you can pick up anywhere for chump change currently making way too much money.

Bringing it back to the Suns. I do think we've done the right thing, but missing on draft picks is really screwing us. You've hit on 2 out of your last 6 lottery picks. 3 of those were top 5. None of them are any good yet. I'm not totally giving up on the young guys but it's much more likely that Bender is going to bust now than previously. Jackson has been a disappointment. Len is what he is. That leaves us Warren and Booker. Warren got paid and Booker will get his extension this Summer. If we're going to spend then '18 is likely the time and if you look at the FA list you'll be unimpressed.

[bwgood77]

I am curious...say we don't find anyone worthy of signing as a FA in 18, so we save the dough, and then no one worthy of a max wants to sign in 19. With a Booker contract hitting the books do you just take the best complementary pieces you can find then?

Or, lets say cap space is never an issue, and we have max cap space every year going forward. If no max worthy "star" free agent signs one year, how many years do you wait with Booker to start using that money to just add various pieces? 2020? 21? 22? How long do you feel you could wait?

Well, you're describing the New Orleans Pelicans pretty well. They can't get FAs here so they opted to keep trading away their draft picks for players instead of rolling over cap space.** Then they have to overpay them when they become FAs a year or two later. It's a **** situation to be in honestly. A core of Jrue-AD-Boogie was never going to be ultra competitive the way the game is played and officiated. But it's the best they could do all things considered.

** The reason they did this is because they felt pressured to win with Davis or lose him. Should they have continued to suck and build organically like OKC? Absolutely. The problem was the owner is old and they wanted to make the playoffs sooner rather than later so they fast-tracked the rebuild and what you see now is the result of that. 1 generational player surround by an all-star and a good player with a ton of pieces you can pick up anywhere for chump change currently making way too much money.

Bringing it back to the Suns. I do think we've done the right thing, but missing on draft picks is really screwing us. You've hit on 2 out of your last 6 lottery picks. 3 of those were top 5. None of them are any good yet. I'm not totally giving up on the young guys but it's much more likely that Bender is going to bust now than previously. Jackson has been a disappointment. Len is what he is. That leaves us Warren and Booker. Warren got paid and Booker will get his extension this Summer. If we're going to spend then '18 is likely the time and if you look at the FA list you'll be unimpressed.

The thing is, the Pelicans are contenders. If Cousins and Davis are on, they are right there. They should have knocked off the Rockets and Davis wasn't even playing. I know Moore and others had huge games, but Gentry can play D'Antoni's game all too well. When you are missing one of the NBA's best players and you have the best team by the throat and lose, that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can build on that.

If you have AD and Cousins you have done well. If you can't win surrounding them with whoever else that's it..I don't think blame should be thrown other than on the players unless their guards and others are crap, and they are not...they are pretty solid as well..not great but Jrue is solid and some good shooter and if Rondo keeps playing like that it's a huge bonus.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I'll be in the room closing the deal with my guy Anthony Davis. We'll order room service for you guys though.

$30.9M + $26M + $25.5M + $12.2M = $94.6M

Now all you need to do is fill up the other 11 spots with your remaining $6M and you'll be GTG...

Oh wait...you already owe Asik $11.3M, Moore $8.8M, Ajinca $5.3M, and you owe a QO to Frank Jackson of $2M...or about $27.4M...and I know I'm missing a piece or two...

But don't worry, according to Spotrac, the Luxury Tax Threshold should be about $123M, so before you sign Boogie to that Max Contract, you should have about $28M to work with under the Tax Max, so fitting $31M under that should no prob...

...oh...hmmm...well, better get to work making some room! I'm sure lots of teams will be lining up to take Asik and Ajinca off your hands...

We'll save you a slice of that pizza you order... BTW...how's that "Mega"-Three of Jrue, AD, and Boogie working out for you all! I see you thoroughly handled Boogie's old team the other night; at home no less...ouch.

You may as well just trade him to use now to salvage your season. We are prepared...even willing...to help you out, because we are generous that way.

AD is still young, and therefore, can endure a 1-2 year retooling effort. Your Twin-Towers experiment has just not worked out, so let's see if we can make it worth your while to separate from him. The fact is, we also have a Center...2, in fact, that are on their way out the door, just like NOs. An easy Monroe-for-Boogie swap makes too much sense not to happen, so long as we sweeten the pot, a bit, since we really still do not want to win too much this year, but you all, do. Turns out, your starting SF is out for quite some time, while we have a young up-and-comer that needs some minutes, but we have this REALLY good other SF on a REALLY good contract in front of him. He also, just so happens to match up nicely with AD's Age Bracket.

We also have a need for a "2nd" SG, so E'twaun Moore might be a nice guy to have on the roster, so, with that said, and the fact that we are taking a huge leap of faith here by trading away our 2nd best player on a phenomenal contract, we really need to hit a couple of 'homeruns' with our picks this year, so we'd request you accepting a deal where we get the better of your pick or the Heat's pick. I may mean nothing to you. The Heat are already worse off than you all, but just in case they get on a hot streak, then we'd ask you to take their pick, and we get yours.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycnkypk2

So...

Suns Give: Monroe + Warren

Pels Give: Boogie + Moore + rights to Pels '18 1st if better than Heats in exchange for '18 Heat's

What do you say? Monroe is no slouch. I actually like Monroe and do not know why McD does not consider him as a potential for our future. The Pels lineup...

Rondo / Jrue / Warren / AD / Monroe

That could work really nice...in fact, I'm sure it would...

Leaves the Suns with...one Booker's back...

Ulis / Booker / JJ / Chriss or Bender / Boogie

McD has a few months to convince Boogie that Booker, JJ, and two Lottery picks in a deep draft will put us back on a winning pace next season...

Spoiler:

I admire your optimism though, go suns

OK...but I truly am curious. You were 'mum' on how you expect to able to afford a Max for Boogie...when you can't...

What 'moves' do you intend to make in order to free up room? You've got an Asik contract that is about as attractive as our Chandler contract. Ajinca isn't much better, but at least it's lower. Moore, is 'meh'...

Again, if you attempt to Max Boogie, you are sitting at $95M with just 4 players? And the rest of your contracts take you over the luxury tax total max. And that's without any draft picks...

[NavLDO]

Quite honestly, I think would rather use Monroe/Daniels for George Hill than Jabari Parker. I just am not sure where Parker fits in with the Suns as the Suns have young forwards already. Granted, not turning down talent, I get that.. Sweet Lou is not your ideal PG type player. Hill would be a solid PG for the next 1.5 years, off the books in summer of 2019 with Dudley and Chandler and also would help out not only Booker but the other players like Warren, Chriss and Bender as a facilitator.

I do think this trade is what the Clippers and Bucks would want though. Clippers would get two young players to build around and an expiring contract in Monroe so that works for them. For the Bucks, the same - though Middleton might be a lot to give up but you have to give to get.

Again, I'll ask...why are you so anxious to pay Hill $19M next year? I know you don't think it's that much money or for very long, but I guarantee you, 95% of this forum will want McD's head by the Summer if we bring in Hill, as that completely and totally hamstrings us financially for this FA period...and I mean we can't even bring in a complimentary piece, and may even have issues signing draft picks.

Look at the difference between Hill and Ulis...(and yes, I get stats don't tell the whole story...)

http://bkref.com/tiny/J7VUB

Hill is not $17+M better than Ulis; he just isn't. And by bringing in Hill, we continue to stunt the growth of Ulis, and really don't do much for anyone else. Oh, and if he DOES help us, then we fall farther back in the Lottery; something else we don't want at this juncture. There is just no 'good' that can come out of bringing in Hill.

No, if we are going to go after a PG, we need to be looking at these types...difference makers...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yakub7dc - we throw in our 1st Rd pick (because once we get Lillard and Booker comes back, we'll be headed to the 8th seed...we keep Miami's 1st, though, to get our Center of the future...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybexwbmd - 'see above'...insert Kemba's name for 'Lillard'. Thy get their new 'face' of the franchise in JJ or Bender...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7wfttrs + their 'interest' in the goofy reade they have with Boston for the 1st Rd pick that will either be 2018 or 2019 - I just did WHAT!! I know, it will never happen, so don't worry, but...
Fultz / JJ / Warren / Saric / Holmes (Holmes is PF/C hybrid) - this assumes Monroe being gone. Philly's all about this, as they get Booker - Simmons / Booker / Covington / Booker / Embiid. We get potentially THREE picks in the lottery this year.

...anyway, you get the point...no Hill...

The reason I am on board with Hill over Ulis and James for PG is what he brings to the table that cannot be put in a boxscore - that is experience and the ability to help Booker, Warren, Chriss and Bender develop. I don't care if Ulis and Hill on paper are the same - George Hill has been a good solid starting PG in the NBA for some time and I think would help Booker immensely by easing his workload for the next 2 years. I know people mention Booker can be Harden - but Harden didn't do the PG thing for like his first 8 years or whatever

Get a real veteran PG to take pressure off Booker - help him grow and learn also while helping Chriss, Bender in the league.

So, then, I suspect you are happy with:

Hill / Booker / Warren / Bender / (Rookie picked late lotto)

...next year, because we have no money for any FAs...then in 2019 off-season, then worry about trying to 'get good'. You are fine with being bad for the next 1.5 years, but not bad enough to get us a top lottery pick this year or next, yet not good enough to be competitive. That's basically what happens in your scenario. Then, we get a NEW PG...again...that our guys need to learn to play with that PGs skills/nuances.

Because Hill is a) not good enough to get us to be competitive as a playoff team, but b) costs too much for us to be able to do anything for the next 1.5 years with our roster until the draft of 2019, and c) will probably help us win 5-7 games, putting us picking 10-14.

[Qwigglez]

OK...but I truly am curious. You were 'mum' on how you expect to able to afford a Max for Boogie...when you can't...

What 'moves' do you intend to make in order to free up room? You've got an Asik contract that is about as attractive as our Chandler contract. Ajinca isn't much better, but at least it's lower. Moore, is 'meh'...

Again, if you attempt to Max Boogie, you are sitting at $95M with just 4 players? And the rest of your contracts take you over the luxury tax total max. And that's without any draft picks...

They'll be able to keep Boogie if he intends to stay there since they have his bird rights. I think he's able to get a 30mil contract in his first year so the Pelicans will have $123 mil locked into...
Anthony Davis, Jrue Holiday, Etwaun Moore, Hill, Asik, Ajinca, Darius Miller, and Frank Jackson. They do have their 2018 1st round pick and that player (if they keep the pick) is looking at roughly another $3mil in salary. I seriously don't see why Boogie would stay here but that's just me.

I could see the Pelicans potentially trading Boogie for maybe Bradley Beal, or a wing player of that sort.

[carey]

The thing is, the Pelicans are contenders. If Cousins and Davis are on, they are right there. They should have knocked off the Rockets and Davis wasn't even playing. I know Moore and others had huge games, but Gentry can play D'Antoni's game all too well. When you are missing one of the NBA's best players and you have the best team by the throat and lose, that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can build on that.

If you have AD and Cousins you have done well. If you can't win surrounding them with whoever else that's it..I don't think blame should be thrown other than on the players unless their guards and others are crap, and they are not...they are pretty solid as well..not great but Jrue is solid and some good shooter and if Rondo keeps playing like that it's a huge bonus.

No offense, mate, but it's clear you don't watch the Pelicans all that much. They are a mediocre team and they play nothing like a D'Antoni team. The only thing they are contenders of is for finishing at .500. They could get in the playoffs and make the 2nd round if everything clicks. Their bench is woefully thin. Lastly, counting on Rondo has been a fool's errand for a few years now.

[Frank Lee]

........


Bringing it back to the Suns. I do think we've done the right thing, but missing on draft picks is really screwing us. You've hit on 2 out of your last 6 lottery picks. 3 of those were top 5. None of them are any good yet. I'm not totally giving up on the young guys but it's much more likely that Bender is going to bust now than previously. Jackson has been a disappointment. Len is what he is. That leaves us Warren and Booker. Warren got paid and Booker will get his extension this Summer. If we're going to spend then '18 is likely the time and if you look at the FA list you'll be unimpressed.

If the Suns were a book, here are the cliff notes.









(for you millennials.... cliff notes are drastically shortened versions of books.....












and books are those cumbersome bulky paper based cohesive texts bound into a large volume )

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

You really gonna act like Amare wasn't already looking like one of the next big time PF/Cs despite it only being in his second year and JJ didn't look like he was gonna be an all star? This team doesn't compare to that team All Star accolades or not, don't be disingenuous to try getting your point across.

Whoa whoa whoa hold the phone. JJ certainly did not look like he was going to be an all-star. He was disappointing for several years before 04-05. We all wanted him to take Penny's spot but he never managed it. Inconsistent play, low intensity, missed shots. Nobody was calling him a future all-star. Not his rookie year, when he was traded after half a season for two bench players. Not during his second season, when at the age of 21, he averaged 10, 3 and 3 in 28 MPG, shooting 40% from the field. Not even during his third season, when he led the post-Marbury Suns in MPG with 40, averaged 16, 5 and 4, and shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3. JJ really broke out as a shooter the year Nash joined the team, and then broke out as a player with the Hawks in his fifth and sixth NBA seasons.

I was posting on Suns boards back then buddy, and no one, NOT NO ONE was saying that JJ looked like a future All-Star before his fourth NBA season, and even then such talk barely registered as a whisper. The guy was a distant fourth banana behind Nash-Amare-Marion. PLENTY of posters assumed he was a bust back then and were ready to move on.

So yeah, I'm familiar with the attitudes currently prevailing on this message board. NOTE that not only did the Celtics give up on Johnson too soon, but when we S&T'd him to Atlanta, we traded him for second-year player Boris Diaw -- whom Atlanta similarly gave up on way too early after a disappointing rookie season. It's not a new thing. Young players usually take time to develop!

But yeah, Amare looked like a beast pretty much immediately. Every player is different.

What are you talking about? JJ was a fan favorite. At least on the espn board. He averaged 16-4-4 and I remember that summer I was really pissed Sarver wouldn't give JJ his extension...he wanted 6-45 and Sarver only would go 6-40...it is ingrained in my mind that he would not extend him because he gave money to Q.

And in 04-05 he was a fan favorite, as I mentioned...sunsbum could tell you all about his bobblehead and all the talk about JJ that season. He was smooth as silk. I don't know what message board you were on then but JJ was certainly not an afterthought.

Going into Nash's season he was a prized piece. We traded two solid players at the time Tony "50 pt game" Delk and Rodney Rogers for him and it helped Boston advance in the playoffs.

I was on the azcentral message boards. I too remember the extension drama. I don't think I have a selective memory here... do you recall how you felt about JJ while he was backing up Penny Hardaway?

Taken literally, our two posts do not conflict, fwiw. I was actually surprised when I looked back at the stats how well they supported my recollection of JJ's early years.

My point here was that you don't always know whether your own young players are any good. Just looking at the numbers, how do you feel this board would react to a player drafted as a sophomore shooting 40%, 43% and 40% in his first three seasons, and being fairly unremarkable from any other athletic or statistical perspective? I think this board would call him a bust. I'm surprised you think otherwise.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Umm. They traded for Kj, Corbin and west. They signed Tom Chambers. The only significant player of that bunch that they drafted themselves was Hornacek and he was a second rounder. No way they contend without Chambers.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Aren't you forgetting someone? Someone Thunderous?

[darealjuice]

I'm curious when Book will come back. 3 weeks from the injury slots him in around the 26th against Memphis, but I could see them holding him off until the next game on the 29th against Sacramento since that'd be missing 10 games. I'd expect us to continue losing every game with him out, but I'm sure Dallas and maybe Memphis without Conley will make that tough on us.

As of Friday FAs that signed this offseason can be traded, wonder if we'll start seeing some more moves around the league? Still almost 2 months until the trade deadline though, so I'm sure it'll be slow for awhile.

If McDonough does make a move for a point guard before the deadline to salvage wins and try saving some face, one guy I wouldn't mind is George Hill. There's rumbling about being unhappy in Sacramento (not that he'd win much more here lol), he's good veteran that fits next to Booker at the point, and after next year his contract is only guaranteed for $1M so he wouldn't eat too much cap if he didn't work out. Doubt we do anything before the offseason, but he's someone I wouldn't mind here considering our current PG play and that he shouldn't be too pricy.

[AtheJ415]

Why are people under the ridiculous impression that Booker is not learning and growing by playing the Harden role for us, and that we immediately have to sacrifice legitimate pieces to get a vet PG, which will somehow then make Booker grow as a player? Making life easier for a player is not necessarily making him grow or allowing him to grow. In fact, I'd argue that pushing Booker to develop his playmaking skills and on the defensive end is where he can grow the most as a player.

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

Wonder if the Marc Gasol rumblngs turn into a trade? From what I've read the Grizz don't appear to be interested in blowing it up, may be they're hoping things turn around when Conley returns?

[King4Day]

I think what we're seeing from the Marlins' fire sale is a reason we shouldn't be so quick to hope Sarver sells the team.
Marlins went from a cheap owner to an even cheaper ownership group.